Katherine (Huddesfield) Carew - who was her mother?

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Tony Hoskins

Katherine (Huddesfield) Carew - who was her mother?

Legg inn av Tony Hoskins » 26 apr 2006 19:44:01

I note discrepant accounts Katherine (Huddesfield) Carew's maternity.
Since I not only descend from Katherine, but also also her sister
(half-sister?) Elizabeth (Huddesfield) Poyntz, this matter is of
particular interest to me.

1) Leo's Great Site shows Katherine (Huddesfield) Carew's mother to
have been Katherine Courtenay, daughter of Sir Philip Courtenay of
Powderham, Devon.

But

2) Douglas Richardson's _Plantagenet Ancestry (pp. 185, 595) describes
the Huddesfield family thus:

SIR WILLIAM HUDDESFIELD (died March 1499) of Shillingford, Devon,
married (1st) JENNET BOSUM and had one daughter:

KATHERINE HUDDESFIELD, married before 22 Oct 1499 to SIR EDMUND CAREW
(d. 1513) of Mohun Ottery, Devon, feudal Baron Carew.

Sir William Huddesfield married (2nd) before 12 October 1479, KATHERINE
COURTENAY (d. 1515), and had a daughter:

ELIZABETH HUDDESFIELD, wife of SIR ANTHONY POYNTZ (d.1535) , of Iron
Acton, Glos.

I'd appreciate the group's thoughts/views on this.

Thanks.

Tony



Anthony Hoskins
History, Genealogy and Archives Librarian
History and Genealogy Library
Sonoma County Library
3rd and E Streets
Santa Rosa, California 95404

707/545-0831, ext. 562

Douglas Richardson

Re: Katherine (Huddesfield) Carew - who was her mother?

Legg inn av Douglas Richardson » 26 apr 2006 21:52:57

Dear Tony ~

Thank you for your post. Good to hear from you as always.

It's been a while since I worked on the Huddesfield family. As I
recall, Katherine (Courtenay) Huddesfield died in 1515, leaving a will
(P.C.C. 4 Holder), in which she named her various children, including
her daughter, Elizabeth (Huddesfield) Poyntz. There is no mention of
Katherine (Huddesfield) Carew in the will as her daughter.

Elsewhere, I find that Katherine Courtenay's 2nd husband, Thomas
Rogers, was living in 1478, but died soon afterwards. Katherine
Courtenay remarried about or shortly before 12 October 1479 as her
third husband William Huddesfield. On the other hand, as Will has
kindly shown us in a post earlier this week, William Huddesfield's
elder daughter, Katherine Huddesfield married shortly before before 16
Jan. 1478/9 Edmund Carew. Thus, the chronology very much forbids
Katherine Courtenay from being Katherine (Huddesfield) Carew's mother.
Katherine Courtenay is, however, the mother of William Huddesfield's
younger daughter, Elizabeth (Huddesfield) Poyntz.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

Website: www. royalancestry. net

"Tony Hoskins" wrote:
< I note discrepant accounts Katherine (Huddesfield) Carew's
maternity.
< Since I not only descend from Katherine, but also also her sister
< (half-sister?) Elizabeth (Huddesfield) Poyntz, this matter is of
< particular interest to me.
<
< 1) Leo's Great Site shows Katherine (Huddesfield) Carew's mother to
< have been Katherine Courtenay, daughter of Sir Philip Courtenay of
< Powderham, Devon.
<
< But
<
< 2) Douglas Richardson's _Plantagenet Ancestry (pp. 185, 595)
describes
< the Huddesfield family thus:
<
< SIR WILLIAM HUDDESFIELD (died March 1499) of Shillingford, Devon,
< married (1st) JENNET BOSUM and had one daughter:
<
< KATHERINE HUDDESFIELD, married before 22 Oct 1499 to SIR EDMUND CAREW
< (d. 1513) of Mohun Ottery, Devon, feudal Baron Carew.
<
< Sir William Huddesfield married (2nd) before 12 October 1479,
KATHERINE
< COURTENAY (d. 1515), and had a daughter:
<
< ELIZABETH HUDDESFIELD, wife of SIR ANTHONY POYNTZ (d.1535) , of Iron
< Acton, Glos.
<
< I'd appreciate the group's thoughts/views on this.
<
< Thanks.
<
< Anthony Hoskins
< History, Genealogy and Archives Librarian
< History and Genealogy Library
< Sonoma County Library
< 3rd and E Streets
< Santa Rosa, California 95404
<
< 707/545-0831, ext. 562

John Higgins

Re: Katherine (Huddesfield) Carew - who was her mother?

Legg inn av John Higgins » 26 apr 2006 23:49:02

I don't disagree with the placement of Katherine Huddesfield as a daughter
of the 1st marriage of Sir William Huddesfield, but I wonder now about her
birth and death dates. The document that Will posted was an agreement to
marry dated 26 Dec 1478 saying that the marriage was to take place by the
following 16 January. But PA3 says Katherine was "born about 1478 (aged 21
and more at father's death)", while RPA amends this slightly to eliminate
the "and more" and says simply "born about 1478 (aged 21 in 1499)". If RPA
and PA3 are correct, this was an extreme case of a child marriage - even an
infant marriage....Something seems wrong here. [Especially since her
daughter Katherine married a man born ca. 1471]

Will's note also said that Katherine [Huddesfield] Carew d. before 6 July
1499 - a date which is given in Vivian's visitations of Devon (not a
reliable source) as the date her will was proved. But neither PA3 nor RPA
gives her a death date or mentions the will. Can her death date be
established more definitely?

FYI: The assignment of Katherine to the 2nd marriage of Sir William may be
due to Vivian, who [at least in one place] noted the two wives and daughters
but assigned the daughters both to the wrong wives. Vivian also appears to
have screwed up the sequence of the husbands of Katherine Courtenay, the 2nd
wife of Sir William.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas Richardson" <royalancestry@msn.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 1:52 PM
Subject: Re: Katherine (Huddesfield) Carew - who was her mother?


Dear Tony ~

Thank you for your post. Good to hear from you as always.

It's been a while since I worked on the Huddesfield family. As I
recall, Katherine (Courtenay) Huddesfield died in 1515, leaving a will
(P.C.C. 4 Holder), in which she named her various children, including
her daughter, Elizabeth (Huddesfield) Poyntz. There is no mention of
Katherine (Huddesfield) Carew in the will as her daughter.

Elsewhere, I find that Katherine Courtenay's 2nd husband, Thomas
Rogers, was living in 1478, but died soon afterwards. Katherine
Courtenay remarried about or shortly before 12 October 1479 as her
third husband William Huddesfield. On the other hand, as Will has
kindly shown us in a post earlier this week, William Huddesfield's
elder daughter, Katherine Huddesfield married shortly before before 16
Jan. 1478/9 Edmund Carew. Thus, the chronology very much forbids
Katherine Courtenay from being Katherine (Huddesfield) Carew's mother.
Katherine Courtenay is, however, the mother of William Huddesfield's
younger daughter, Elizabeth (Huddesfield) Poyntz.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

Website: www. royalancestry. net

"Tony Hoskins" wrote:
I note discrepant accounts Katherine (Huddesfield) Carew's
maternity.
Since I not only descend from Katherine, but also also her sister
(half-sister?) Elizabeth (Huddesfield) Poyntz, this matter is of
particular interest to me.

1) Leo's Great Site shows Katherine (Huddesfield) Carew's mother to
have been Katherine Courtenay, daughter of Sir Philip Courtenay of
Powderham, Devon.

But

2) Douglas Richardson's _Plantagenet Ancestry (pp. 185, 595)
describes
the Huddesfield family thus:

SIR WILLIAM HUDDESFIELD (died March 1499) of Shillingford, Devon,
married (1st) JENNET BOSUM and had one daughter:

KATHERINE HUDDESFIELD, married before 22 Oct 1499 to SIR EDMUND CAREW
(d. 1513) of Mohun Ottery, Devon, feudal Baron Carew.

Sir William Huddesfield married (2nd) before 12 October 1479,
KATHERINE
COURTENAY (d. 1515), and had a daughter:

ELIZABETH HUDDESFIELD, wife of SIR ANTHONY POYNTZ (d.1535) , of Iron
Acton, Glos.

I'd appreciate the group's thoughts/views on this.

Thanks.

Anthony Hoskins
History, Genealogy and Archives Librarian
History and Genealogy Library
Sonoma County Library
3rd and E Streets
Santa Rosa, California 95404

707/545-0831, ext. 562


Douglas Richardson

Re: Katherine (Huddesfield) Carew - who was her mother?

Legg inn av Douglas Richardson » 27 apr 2006 22:41:13

Dear Tony ~

I had a chance to examine abstracts of the will and IPMs of Lady
Katherine (Courtenay) Huddesfield today which are found on FHL
Microfilm 917528. One of the IPMs is dated 25 Jan. 1514/5, and states
that Lady Katherine died 12 January 1514/5. Her heir was her son,
George Rogers, aged 30. Her will is dated the octave of the feast of
St. Gregory, 1514, and was proved in 1514 (probably 1514/5 intended).
She named her son, George Rogers; her daughter and son-in-law,
Elizabeth and Anthony Poyntz; her son, George's children, Katyn [sic],
Edward, and Elizabeth; and William son of Thomas Rogers and his
brother, John [presumably her step-sons]. No one named Carew is
mentioned in the will.

An abstract of Sir William Huddesfield's will is on the same microfilm.
It is dated 14 June 1497, proved 6 July 1499. He mentions his current
wife, Lady Katherine; his daughter, Elizabeth (unmarried); his daughter
and son-in-law, Lady Katherine and Sir Edmund Carew, and their
children, John, Charles, Thomas, and William Carew; his former wife,
Elizabeth (deceased); his parents, William and Alice Huddesfield (both
deceased); his nephew, Robert Mountagu; his wife's son, George Roger;
and his cousin, William Wikes.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

Website: www. royalancestry. net


Douglas Richardson wrote:
Dear Tony ~

Thank you for your post. Good to hear from you as always.

It's been a while since I worked on the Huddesfield family. As I
recall, Katherine (Courtenay) Huddesfield died in 1515, leaving a will
(P.C.C. 4 Holder), in which she named her various children, including
her daughter, Elizabeth (Huddesfield) Poyntz. There is no mention of
Katherine (Huddesfield) Carew in the will as her daughter.

Elsewhere, I find that Katherine Courtenay's 2nd husband, Thomas
Rogers, was living in 1478, but died soon afterwards. Katherine
Courtenay remarried about or shortly before 12 October 1479 as her
third husband William Huddesfield. On the other hand, as Will has
kindly shown us in a post earlier this week, William Huddesfield's
elder daughter, Katherine Huddesfield married shortly before before 16
Jan. 1478/9 Edmund Carew. Thus, the chronology very much forbids
Katherine Courtenay from being Katherine (Huddesfield) Carew's mother.
Katherine Courtenay is, however, the mother of William Huddesfield's
younger daughter, Elizabeth (Huddesfield) Poyntz.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

Website: www. royalancestry. net

"Tony Hoskins" wrote:
I note discrepant accounts Katherine (Huddesfield) Carew's
maternity.
Since I not only descend from Katherine, but also also her sister
(half-sister?) Elizabeth (Huddesfield) Poyntz, this matter is of
particular interest to me.

1) Leo's Great Site shows Katherine (Huddesfield) Carew's mother to
have been Katherine Courtenay, daughter of Sir Philip Courtenay of
Powderham, Devon.

But

2) Douglas Richardson's _Plantagenet Ancestry (pp. 185, 595)
describes
the Huddesfield family thus:

SIR WILLIAM HUDDESFIELD (died March 1499) of Shillingford, Devon,
married (1st) JENNET BOSUM and had one daughter:

KATHERINE HUDDESFIELD, married before 22 Oct 1499 to SIR EDMUND CAREW
(d. 1513) of Mohun Ottery, Devon, feudal Baron Carew.

Sir William Huddesfield married (2nd) before 12 October 1479,
KATHERINE
COURTENAY (d. 1515), and had a daughter:

ELIZABETH HUDDESFIELD, wife of SIR ANTHONY POYNTZ (d.1535) , of Iron
Acton, Glos.

I'd appreciate the group's thoughts/views on this.

Thanks.

Anthony Hoskins
History, Genealogy and Archives Librarian
History and Genealogy Library
Sonoma County Library
3rd and E Streets
Santa Rosa, California 95404

707/545-0831, ext. 562

Gjest

Re: Katherine (Huddesfield) Carew - who was her mother?

Legg inn av Gjest » 27 apr 2006 23:08:20

Douglas Richardson schrieb:

Dear Tony ~

I had a chance to examine abstracts of the will and IPMs of Lady
Katherine (Courtenay) Huddesfield today which are found on FHL
Microfilm 917528. One of the IPMs is dated 25 Jan. 1514/5, and states
that Lady Katherine died 12 January 1514/5. Her heir was her son,
George Rogers, aged 30. Her will is dated the octave of the feast of
St. Gregory, 1514, and was proved in 1514 (probably 1514/5 intended).

Catalogued as "the will of Dame Kateryn Lady Huddesfeld, widow", proved
P.C.C. February 1514 (sic), PROB 11/18 (within the Holder Register, as
you noted earlier, Douglas).

MA-R

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