Philip Champernoun of Modbury

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Philip Champernoun of Modbury

Legg inn av Gjest » 21 apr 2006 01:47:13

On Leo's great web site here
http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.ph ... 7&tree=LEO

we see Philip with eight children.
Two of the children are both name Joan and two are both named Katherine

Could these two Joan's and Katherine's actually be the same Joan and
Katherine?

Will Johnson

John Higgins

Re: Philip Champernoun of Modbury

Legg inn av John Higgins » 21 apr 2006 07:11:39

Vivian's edition of the visitations of Devon (not the best of sources) gives
only one Joan and one Katherine as daughters to Sir Philip Champernoun and
his wife Catherine Carew. Joan is said to have m. Sir Arthur Denny, which
matches one of the Joans in Genealogics. Kataherine is said to have m. (1)
Otho Gilbert of Compton and (2) Walter Raleigh of Fardell, which matches (at
least as to the 1st marriage) one of the Katherines in Genealogics.

The 2nd Joan is said in Genealogics (citing Paget) to have mar. Sir Robert
Gamage of Coity, but Richardson's RPA cites G. T. Clark's "Limbus Patrum
Morganiae et Glamorganiae" as indicating that Joan might be either a
Chanpernoun as indicated by Paget or a daughter of Sir Philip Seymour. RPA
thus leaves Joan without a surname - probably a good conservative choice.
FWIW, RD600 indicates the wife of Robert Gamage to be Joan Champernoun
without noting the Seymour possibility. [Is there any information on who
this Sir Philip Seymour might be?]

As to the 2nd Katherine, Genealogics says she mar. John Astley or Ashley and
says she was "governess to the Princess Elizabeth". The same page, 383, of
Burke's Landed Gentry is cited by Genealogics for both Katherines (but which
edition of BLG, Leo?? I'm guessing it's 1937...).

The archives back in 1999 have a couple of very useful posts by Ronny Bodine
on the Champernouns of Modbury, but they unfortunately don't go as far
forward as Sir Philip and his family.

----- Original Message -----
From: <WJhonson@aol.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 3:46 PM
Subject: Philip Champernoun of Modbury


On Leo's great web site here
http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.ph ... 7&tree=LEO

we see Philip with eight children.
Two of the children are both name Joan and two are both named Katherine

Could these two Joan's and Katherine's actually be the same Joan and
Katherine?

Will Johnson


Leo van de Pas

Re: Philip Champernoun of Modbury

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 21 apr 2006 08:11:01

Burke's Landed Gentry, 1937, Page 383

Sir Philip Champernowne, of Modbury, he died 1545
married Katherine Carew
children
1.John Campernowne of Modbury, married Katherine Blount daughter of Lord
Mountjoy
2.Sir Arthur of whom later
1..Elizabeth, married 1st William Cole, 2nd NN Pollard
2.Joan, married Sir Anthony Denny
3.Katherine, married 1st Otho Gilbert 2nd Walter Raleigh
4.Frances, married Roger Budockshed
5.Katherine, appointed governess to the Princess Elizabeth, married John
Astley (or Ashley)
6.Joan, married Robert Gamage

2.Joan married Sir Anthony Denny, Burke's Extinct Peerage 1866, page 165
shows Sir Anthony Denny, gentleman of the privy chamber of Henry VIII
married to Joan Champernowne daughter of Sir Philip of Modbury

3.Katherine, in "Sir Walter Raleigh", by Philip Magnus, page 15 Sir Walter
Rakeigh was the second son of his father's third marriage to Katherine
Champernowne, widow of Otho Gilbert

5.Katherine, "The Life and Times of Elizabeth I" by Neville Williams, page
22, Kate Champernowne, who had married John Ashley, but remained in the
Princess's service; page 24 ....she was looked after by Sir Anthony Denny,
Kate Ashley's brother-in-law

6.Joan married to Sir Robert Gamage of Coity is in Paget's ancestry of
Prince Charles nr. O29622 and shown as daughter of Sir Philip and
Catherine/Katherine Carew.

Hope this helps a little.
Best wishes
Leo van de Pas
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Higgins" <jthiggins@sbcglobal.net>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 2:07 PM
Subject: Re: Philip Champernoun of Modbury


Vivian's edition of the visitations of Devon (not the best of sources)
gives
only one Joan and one Katherine as daughters to Sir Philip Champernoun and
his wife Catherine Carew. Joan is said to have m. Sir Arthur Denny, which
matches one of the Joans in Genealogics. Kataherine is said to have m.
(1)
Otho Gilbert of Compton and (2) Walter Raleigh of Fardell, which matches
(at
least as to the 1st marriage) one of the Katherines in Genealogics.

The 2nd Joan is said in Genealogics (citing Paget) to have mar. Sir Robert
Gamage of Coity, but Richardson's RPA cites G. T. Clark's "Limbus Patrum
Morganiae et Glamorganiae" as indicating that Joan might be either a
Chanpernoun as indicated by Paget or a daughter of Sir Philip Seymour.
RPA
thus leaves Joan without a surname - probably a good conservative choice.
FWIW, RD600 indicates the wife of Robert Gamage to be Joan Champernoun
without noting the Seymour possibility. [Is there any information on who
this Sir Philip Seymour might be?]

As to the 2nd Katherine, Genealogics says she mar. John Astley or Ashley
and
says she was "governess to the Princess Elizabeth". The same page, 383,
of
Burke's Landed Gentry is cited by Genealogics for both Katherines (but
which
edition of BLG, Leo?? I'm guessing it's 1937...).

The archives back in 1999 have a couple of very useful posts by Ronny
Bodine
on the Champernouns of Modbury, but they unfortunately don't go as far
forward as Sir Philip and his family.

----- Original Message -----
From: <WJhonson@aol.com
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 3:46 PM
Subject: Philip Champernoun of Modbury


On Leo's great web site here
http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.ph ... 7&tree=LEO

we see Philip with eight children.
Two of the children are both name Joan and two are both named Katherine

Could these two Joan's and Katherine's actually be the same Joan and
Katherine?

Will Johnson





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