Herald Red Field Black Eagle and Crescent

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Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun]

Herald Red Field Black Eagle and Crescent

Legg inn av Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun] » 20 apr 2006 09:08:06

Regarding the black eagle with crescent in the painting by Edmund
Blair-Leighton,
as depicted in this image:
http://www.ravensanctuary.com/images/accolade.jpg

this herald seems to resemble a house in central europe

1. is it a genuine herald or a product of the artist's imagination ?

2. does the red field belong to the herald ?

Mark E Sievert

Re: Herald Red Field Black Eagle and Crescent

Legg inn av Mark E Sievert » 20 apr 2006 22:05:41

"Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun]" <hasatan@grex.cyberspace.org> wrote in message
news:1145520486.141425.142800@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
Regarding the black eagle with crescent in the painting by Edmund
Blair-Leighton,
as depicted in this image:
http://www.ravensanctuary.com/images/accolade.jpg

this herald seems to resemble a house in central europe

1. is it a genuine herald or a product of the artist's imagination ?

2. does the red field belong to the herald ?


In answer to you're first question, I think the title of the work is 'the
Grail Queen', making this something out of the Arthurian legends so the arms
are probably fantasy.

Second question, yes. Though rare, there are a few arms with black charges
on red fields.


M E Sievert

Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun]

Re: Herald Red Field Black Eagle and Crescent

Legg inn av Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun] » 21 apr 2006 03:37:53

Mark E Sievert wrote:
"Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun]" <hasatan@grex.cyberspace.org> wrote in message
news:1145520486.141425.142800@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...

Regarding the black eagle with crescent in the painting by Edmund
Blair-Leighton,
as depicted in this image:
http://www.ravensanctuary.com/images/accolade.jpg

this herald seems to resemble a house in central europe

1. is it a genuine herald or a product of the artist's imagination ?

2. does the red field belong to the herald ?


In answer to you're first question, I think the title of the work is 'the
Grail Queen', making this something out of the Arthurian legends so the arms
are probably fantasy.


ah. the painting is usually referred to as "the accolade"
i did not now it was an arthurian them ; any references which explain
that Leighton was painting an arthurian scene please


Second question, yes. Though rare, there are a few arms with black charges
on red fields.


yes this is why asked ; there is a central european house with such
arms, but since Leighton is english i thought it might be a coincide ;
the design is not very complicated

thank you

Thur

Re: Herald Red Field Black Eagle and Crescent

Legg inn av Thur » 21 apr 2006 18:57:38

"Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun]" <hasatan@grex.cyberspace.org> wrote in message
news:1145520486.141425.142800@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
Regarding the black eagle with crescent in the painting by Edmund
Blair-Leighton,
as depicted in this image:
http://www.ravensanctuary.com/images/accolade.jpg

this herald seems to resemble a house in central europe

1. is it a genuine herald or a product of the artist's imagination ?

2. does the red field belong to the herald ?

The painting comes from the British Victorian era.


The subject matter is fairly typical of the time and
place in art.
It is unlikely that historical accuracy has been attempted
in anything other than following and renewing British
mythology.
At that time there was an demand for the reworking
of extracts from history into something that reinforced
Victorian arrogance and feelings of racial superiority.
Heraldry is a specialised subject. Leighton was a
Londoner and unlikely to have had any motive to
paint heraldry relating to Central Europe unless he
had been commissioned to do so.
I expect you are thinking of something like this?
(scroll down a little)
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/cs-kosov.html
--
And more interesting:
http://www.fotw.net/Flags/islam.html#int

[Scroll to end of text.]
"It seems that in the 12th century the arms of the crescent were open to the
top. King Richard I of England adopted the star and crescent as a royal
badge, from the Emperor's standard of Governor Isaac Comnenus, after
capturing Cyprus. Back in England, 'a crescent of gold on a shield of azure,
with a blazing star of eight points, or rays of silver, between the horns',
was granted to Portsmouth as the heraldic crest of the newly incorporated
Royal borough..."

Islamic crescents are and were not open at the top.
I can't comment on how reliable the quoted text is.
Thur

Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun]

Re: Herald Red Field Black Eagle and Crescent

Legg inn av Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun] » 22 apr 2006 10:11:01

Thur wrote:
"Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun]" <hasatan@grex.cyberspace.org> wrote in message
news:1145520486.141425.142800@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...

Regarding the black eagle with crescent in the painting by Edmund
Blair-Leighton,
as depicted in this image:
http://www.ravensanctuary.com/images/accolade.jpg

this herald seems to resemble a house in central europe

1. is it a genuine herald or a product of the artist's imagination ?

2. does the red field belong to the herald ?

(scroll down a little)
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/cs-kosov.html

No, not at all, but thank you.

the arms in question are Slavic however.

Mark E Sievert

Re: Herald Red Field Black Eagle and Crescent

Legg inn av Mark E Sievert » 23 apr 2006 03:37:54

"Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun]" <hasatan@grex.cyberspace.org> wrote in message
news:1145587073.266847.167370@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Mark E Sievert wrote:
"Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun]" <hasatan@grex.cyberspace.org> wrote in message
news:1145520486.141425.142800@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...

Regarding the black eagle with crescent in the painting by Edmund
Blair-Leighton,
as depicted in this image:
http://www.ravensanctuary.com/images/accolade.jpg

this herald seems to resemble a house in central europe

1. is it a genuine herald or a product of the artist's imagination ?

2. does the red field belong to the herald ?


In answer to you're first question, I think the title of the work is 'the
Grail Queen', making this something out of the Arthurian legends so the
arms
are probably fantasy.


ah. the painting is usually referred to as "the accolade"
i did not now it was an arthurian them ; any references which explain
that Leighton was painting an arthurian scene please

If a citation is what you are looking for, I came across the name of the
print while browsing through catalogs at a framing shop several years ago.
I simply have a knack for remembering trivia.

MES


Second question, yes. Though rare, there are a few arms with black
charges
on red fields.


yes this is why asked ; there is a central european house with such
arms, but since Leighton is english i thought it might be a coincide ;
the design is not very complicated

thank you

celia

Re: Herald Red Field Black Eagle and Crescent

Legg inn av celia » 23 apr 2006 12:29:48

[Scroll to end of text.]
"It seems that in the 12th century the arms of the crescent were open to the
top. King Richard I of England adopted the star and crescent as a royal
badge, from the Emperor's standard of Governor Isaac Comnenus, after
capturing Cyprus. Back in England, 'a crescent of gold on a shield of azure,
with a blazing star of eight points, or rays of silver, between the horns',
was granted to Portsmouth as the heraldic crest of the newly incorporated
Royal borough..."

Islamic crescents are and were not open at the top.
I can't comment on how reliable the quoted text is.
Thur

The crescent orientated like this was a medieval
traditional symbol for the boat of souls.

Celia

Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun]

Re: Herald Red Field Black Eagle and Crescent

Legg inn av Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun] » 24 apr 2006 04:35:50

celia wrote:
[Scroll to end of text.]
"It seems that in the 12th century the arms of the crescent were open to the
top. King Richard I of England adopted the star and crescent as a royal
badge, from the Emperor's standard of Governor Isaac Comnenus, after
capturing Cyprus. Back in England, 'a crescent of gold on a shield of azure,
with a blazing star of eight points, or rays of silver, between the horns',
was granted to Portsmouth as the heraldic crest of the newly incorporated
Royal borough..."

Islamic crescents are and were not open at the top.
I can't comment on how reliable the quoted text is.
Thur

The crescent orientated like this was a medieval
traditional symbol for the boat of souls.

Celia


crossing the river Lethe ?
therefore no relation to Islam if such is the case.
can you provide a reference for that please ?

celia

Re: Herald Red Field Black Eagle and Crescent

Legg inn av celia » 24 apr 2006 05:50:27

Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun] wrote:
celia wrote:
[Scroll to end of text.]
"It seems that in the 12th century the arms of the crescent were open to the
top. King Richard I of England adopted the star and crescent as a royal
badge, from the Emperor's standard of Governor Isaac Comnenus, after
capturing Cyprus. Back in England, 'a crescent of gold on a shield of azure,
with a blazing star of eight points, or rays of silver, between the horns',
was granted to Portsmouth as the heraldic crest of the newly incorporated
Royal borough..."

Islamic crescents are and were not open at the top.
I can't comment on how reliable the quoted text is.
Thur

The crescent orientated like this was a medieval
traditional symbol for the boat of souls.

Celia

I have a dustbin of a mind and here have collected
mainly images but I'll do my best.
The earliest I can go is illustrations to classical
works for example Dante's 'Comedia' that deals with
the state of souls after death. I think Plato also
uses the image but I could be wrong.
It was a common bit of iconography in the Middle Ages
as the idea of the church (in both meanings of the word)
was developed as symbolised by a boat in which
the souls of men journeyed safely to the next world.
There's an on line article on Chaucer's man of Laws Tale
that explores the theme with some good illustrations
but being technically incompetant I've lost it.

Celia



crossing the river Lethe ?
therefore no relation to Islam if such is the case.
can you provide a reference for that please ?

celia

Re: Herald Red Field Black Eagle and Crescent

Legg inn av celia » 24 apr 2006 05:54:58

celia wrote:
Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun] wrote:
celia wrote:
[Scroll to end of text.]
"It seems that in the 12th century the arms of the crescent were open to the
top. King Richard I of England adopted the star and crescent as a royal
badge, from the Emperor's standard of Governor Isaac Comnenus, after
capturing Cyprus. Back in England, 'a crescent of gold on a shield of azure,
with a blazing star of eight points, or rays of silver, between the horns',
was granted to Portsmouth as the heraldic crest of the newly incorporated
Royal borough..."

Islamic crescents are and were not open at the top.
I can't comment on how reliable the quoted text is.
Thur

The crescent orientated like this was a medieval
traditional symbol for the boat of souls.

Celia

I have a dustbin of a mind and here have collected
mainly images but I'll do my best.
The earliest I can go is illustrations to classical
works for example Dante's 'Comedia' that deals with
the state of souls after death. I think Plato also
uses the image but I could be wrong.
It was a common bit of iconography in the Middle Ages
as the idea of the church (in both meanings of the word)
was developed as symbolised by a boat in which
the souls of men journeyed safely to the next world.
There's an on line article on Chaucer's Man of Laws Tale
that explores the theme with some good illustrations
but being technically incompetant I've lost it.

Celia

Found it.


http://66.249.93.104/search?q=cache:BQiO6A1jGlgJ:www.unc.edu/depts/chaucer/zatta/law.html+boat+of+souls+medieval&hl=en&gl=uk&ct=clnk&cd=6&lr=lang_en

crossing the river Lethe ?
therefore no relation to Islam if such is the case.
can you provide a reference for that please ?

celia

Re: Herald Red Field Black Eagle and Crescent

Legg inn av celia » 24 apr 2006 07:04:48

celia wrote:
celia wrote:


The crescent orientated like this was a medieval
traditional symbol for the boat of souls.

Celia

I have a dustbin of a mind and here have collected
mainly images but I'll do my best.
The earliest I can go is illustrations to classical
works for example Dante's 'Comedia' that deals with
the state of souls after death. I think Plato also
uses the image but I could be wrong.
It was a common bit of iconography in the Middle Ages
as the idea of the church (in both meanings of the word)
was developed as symbolised by a boat in which
the souls of men journeyed safely to the next world.
There's an on line article on Chaucer's Man of Laws Tale
that explores the theme with some good illustrations
but being technically incompetant I've lost it.

Celia

I've now woken up, Dante is of course medieval.

Celia
Found it.

http://66.249.93.104/search?q=cache:BQi ... lr=lang_en

crossing the river Lethe ?
therefore no relation to Islam if such is the case.
can you provide a reference for that please ?

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