Dear Newsgroup ~
Emperor Frederick I Barbarossa (died 1190) referred to Richsza (or
Richildis), Queen of Spain [Hispaniarum reginæ], wife of Raymond
Berenger V, Count of Provence, as "our kinswoman" [neptis nostræ]
[Reference: Martene & Durand, Veterum scriptorum et monumentorum, 1
(1724): 860-863].
This is yet another straightforward and simple kinship which is typical
of relationships we find noted in the period before 1250. The two
parties were first cousins, or related in the 2nd and 2nd degrees of
kindred, by common descent from Agnes von Wablingen as follows:
1. Agnes von Waiblingen, married (1st) Frederick I, Duke of Swabia.
2. Frederick II, Duke of Swabia, died 1147.
3. Emperor Frederick I Barbarossa, died 1190.
1. Agnes von Waiblingen, married (2nd) Leopold III, Margrave of
Österreich.
2. Agnes of Österreich, married Wladislaw II, Duke of Polen-Schlesien.
3. Richsza of Poland, married (1st) Alphonso VII, King of Castile;
(2nd) Raymond Berenger V, Count of Provence; and Albert II, Count of
Evenstein.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Website: http://www.royalancestry.net
King's Kinsfolk: Emperor Frederick I Barbarossa's kinswoman,
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
CED
Re: King's Kinsfolk: Emperor Frederick I Barbarossa's kinswo
Douglas Richardson wrote:
To the Newsgroup:
I had not intended to pursue Richardson's lists of who is related to
whom; however his latest list, that relating to the descendants of
Agnes, daughter of Emperor Henry IV (whom he calls - following the
Mittelalter site - Agnes von Waiblingen), cries for comment.
1. Why call Agnes "von Waiblingen" ? So far as I can dertermine (my
acces to original sources is limited) this Agnes not given that
"surname" in her life-time or any time later until whatever source the
Mittelalter site used. The name is uninformative. Most frequently
Agnes is called "Agnes of Germany" with the indication that she was the
daughter of Emperor Henry IV. Even if the castle of Waiblingen (which
is better known to history by the name of the family's partisans, the
Ghibellines) was a proper designation for her residence (I think her
dower), why use the German "von" ? It was not a surname, using it now
tells us nothing. (So far as I can tell at this point, the castle was
not her father's place of residence, but that of her husband). This
use of Waiblingen by Richardson is simply an attempt to show off his
use of the Mittelalter site and lead us to believe that he knows
German. In an earlier post he was warned to be cautious with that site.
(See Sun, Mar 12 2006 12:57 am soc.genealogy.medieval.)
2. Richardson uses a strange mixure of names of various linguistic and
historical backgrounds with no apparent logic in that strange mixture.
(a) He gives us "Agnes von Waiblingen, married (1st) Frederick I, Duke
of Swabia." With the "von" why not "Friedrich I (or some other German
version of that name), Herzog von Schwaben"?
(b) He gives us "Agnes von Waiblingen, married (2nd) Leopold III,
Margrave of Österreich." Why not Luitpold (or some other German
version of the name)? Why "Österreich"; why not "Austria." Is he
trying to show off his use of an umlaut? Why use a late English
invention of the rather silly "margrave" as the equivalent of the
German "markgraf" when, if he going to use "Österreich," he could use
the German title as well? If English, try "marquise." (That would be
almost as silly.)
(c) Our Polish friends are probably less than happy to see
Richardson's slavish following Mittlealter in the traditional prejudice
against the Poles of Silesia. If not Silesia, why German, why not
Slaskie? If one were to use German, the older Schliesen would
probably less wrankling than "Polen-Schlesien." Why does Richardson
prefer the German "Polen" to "Polska" ? Could it be that Richardson
does not know where Silesia is, or its history under German domination?
That would not be surprizing, since his ignorance of history has not
kept him from trying to do genealogy.
Wladyslaw II Odonicz was considered king of Poland at one time. Why
not designate him so? More German bias? If we try to use the names as
they were used (remember all those French names), why not Agnieszka?
3. Could Richardson please provides us with his source for "Albert II,
Count of Evenstein." That one is a real puzzler.
CED
PS: I've done this rapidly before having to leave; so please excuse the
errors.
Dear Newsgroup ~
To the Newsgroup:
I had not intended to pursue Richardson's lists of who is related to
whom; however his latest list, that relating to the descendants of
Agnes, daughter of Emperor Henry IV (whom he calls - following the
Mittelalter site - Agnes von Waiblingen), cries for comment.
1. Why call Agnes "von Waiblingen" ? So far as I can dertermine (my
acces to original sources is limited) this Agnes not given that
"surname" in her life-time or any time later until whatever source the
Mittelalter site used. The name is uninformative. Most frequently
Agnes is called "Agnes of Germany" with the indication that she was the
daughter of Emperor Henry IV. Even if the castle of Waiblingen (which
is better known to history by the name of the family's partisans, the
Ghibellines) was a proper designation for her residence (I think her
dower), why use the German "von" ? It was not a surname, using it now
tells us nothing. (So far as I can tell at this point, the castle was
not her father's place of residence, but that of her husband). This
use of Waiblingen by Richardson is simply an attempt to show off his
use of the Mittelalter site and lead us to believe that he knows
German. In an earlier post he was warned to be cautious with that site.
(See Sun, Mar 12 2006 12:57 am soc.genealogy.medieval.)
2. Richardson uses a strange mixure of names of various linguistic and
historical backgrounds with no apparent logic in that strange mixture.
(a) He gives us "Agnes von Waiblingen, married (1st) Frederick I, Duke
of Swabia." With the "von" why not "Friedrich I (or some other German
version of that name), Herzog von Schwaben"?
(b) He gives us "Agnes von Waiblingen, married (2nd) Leopold III,
Margrave of Österreich." Why not Luitpold (or some other German
version of the name)? Why "Österreich"; why not "Austria." Is he
trying to show off his use of an umlaut? Why use a late English
invention of the rather silly "margrave" as the equivalent of the
German "markgraf" when, if he going to use "Österreich," he could use
the German title as well? If English, try "marquise." (That would be
almost as silly.)
(c) Our Polish friends are probably less than happy to see
Richardson's slavish following Mittlealter in the traditional prejudice
against the Poles of Silesia. If not Silesia, why German, why not
Slaskie? If one were to use German, the older Schliesen would
probably less wrankling than "Polen-Schlesien." Why does Richardson
prefer the German "Polen" to "Polska" ? Could it be that Richardson
does not know where Silesia is, or its history under German domination?
That would not be surprizing, since his ignorance of history has not
kept him from trying to do genealogy.
Wladyslaw II Odonicz was considered king of Poland at one time. Why
not designate him so? More German bias? If we try to use the names as
they were used (remember all those French names), why not Agnieszka?
3. Could Richardson please provides us with his source for "Albert II,
Count of Evenstein." That one is a real puzzler.
CED
PS: I've done this rapidly before having to leave; so please excuse the
errors.
Emperor Frederick I Barbarossa (died 1190) referred to Richsza (or
Richildis), Queen of Spain [Hispaniarum reginæ], wife of Raymond
Berenger V, Count of Provence, as "our kinswoman" [neptis nostræ]
[Reference: Martene & Durand, Veterum scriptorum et monumentorum, 1
(1724): 860-863].
This is yet another straightforward and simple kinship which is typical
of relationships we find noted in the period before 1250. The two
parties were first cousins, or related in the 2nd and 2nd degrees of
kindred, by common descent from Agnes von Wablingen as follows:
1. Agnes von Waiblingen, married (1st) Frederick I, Duke of Swabia.
2. Frederick II, Duke of Swabia, died 1147.
3. Emperor Frederick I Barbarossa, died 1190.
1. Agnes von Waiblingen, married (2nd) Leopold III, Margrave of
Österreich.
2. Agnes of Österreich, married Wladislaw II, Duke of Polen-Schlesien.
3. Richsza of Poland, married (1st) Alphonso VII, King of Castile;
(2nd) Raymond Berenger V, Count of Provence; and Albert II, Count of
Evenstein.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Website: http://www.royalancestry.net