Fw: Valenza & Eudokia - a Komnen-Palaiolog hypothesis

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Ford Mommaerts-Browne

Fw: Valenza & Eudokia - a Komnen-Palaiolog hypothesis

Legg inn av Ford Mommaerts-Browne » 09 mar 2006 04:54:01

"Akrogiali" <akrogiali@westnet.com.au> wrote in message news:440f906d@quokka.wn.com.au...
One was either christened E, and became V, or one was christened V, and
became E.
That does not make any sense. I guess when you say "Christened" you mean
"Baptized".


Yes.


You can not be Baptized Maria and be called Carla.


Agreed - but then, I never said, nor implied this.

Might 'Valenza' have been 'Valenzia' or 'Valencia'? It is also possible
that the infix, 'i', would be dropped, to create a name that might,
seemingly, be the 'original' for Valencia, (the province), as 'Julus' was
the original for 'Julius', 'Alexandra' for 'Alexandria', 'Persa' for
'Persia', 'Galla' for 'Gallia', 'Tarquina' for 'Tarquinius', etc.?

I do not understand the above either.

Can't help that; it's fairly straight forward.

Do you agree that the name Valenza is not Greek or not?

For whatever relevance, I agreed that it is not Greek. Never said otherwise.

The name Valence is Latin and existed before Valencia did, if you refer to
the Spanish city.

Time of origin of name is irrelevent here.

By the way, If I am not mistaken "Galla" derives from the Greek word Gallini
and exists as a name in Russia Orthodox religion.

May or may not derive from Greek, 'though I doubt it very much! I was speaking of the derivation of the name Gal(l)ia for France, and the name(s) Gallus/-a. The point is the 'i' infix, and the linguistics, actual or believed, at work in 'creating' names.

Lest we get off on an irrelevent tangeant here - names ARE sometimes created _ex nihilo_, by parents, for children. Since Romans didn't name their children 'Benedictus', someone had to 'create the name - unless you think that Christians simply translated the name 'Baruch' into Latin - (not bloody likely). And what about 'Faith', 'Hope', 'Charity', 'Prudence', 'Patience', 'Perseverence', 'Chastity', 'Petula', 'Clement', and the whole list of names which we had about six months ago?
We are, (or at least I was, and think that most others were able to follow my reasoning), talking about 'creating' names that MAY not have existed. Now, if Valence/Valenz has a long and vast history behind it, (I know not of this), it was a name 'created' in this circumstance.
You have mentioned that Greeks name their first daughter after the paternal grandma, and the second after the maternal grandma. Since they never, ever name their daughters after mamam, what about third, fourth or fifth daughters? If this is not a Greek family, as you contend, then Greek naming patterns are immaterial & irrelevent. Still, the name had to come from some idea, if not an actual person. The question being addressed is/was, 'What was the principle behind the name?'.

regards

""Ford Mommaerts-Browne"" <FordMommaerts@Cox.net

Akrogiali

Re: Valenza & Eudokia - a Komnen-Palaiolog hypothesis

Legg inn av Akrogiali » 09 mar 2006 23:03:15

You have mentioned that Greeks name their first daughter after the paternal
grandma, and the second after the maternal grandma. Since they never, ever
name their daughters after mamam, what about third, fourth or fifth
daughters?

3rd and 4th daughter are named consultation with the Godparents. That does
not apply here.

If this is not a Greek family, as you contend, then Greek naming patterns
are immaterial &
irrelevant.

The naming pattern is relevant to argue that she was not Greek.


Still, the name had to come from some idea, if not an actual person. The
question being >addressed is/was, 'What was the principle behind the
name?'.

Latins did not have strict traditional patterns in naming female individuals
(for males they did). There were no principles behind female names.


""Ford Mommaerts-Browne"" <FordMommaerts@Cox.net> wrote in message
news:03b701c6432e$2350eae0$6b3afc18@om.cox.net...
"Akrogiali" <akrogiali@westnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:440f906d@quokka.wn.com.au...
One was either christened E, and became V, or one was christened V, and
became E.
That does not make any sense. I guess when you say "Christened" you mean
"Baptized".


Yes.


You can not be Baptized Maria and be called Carla.


Agreed - but then, I never said, nor implied this.


Might 'Valenza' have been 'Valenzia' or 'Valencia'? It is also
possible
that the infix, 'i', would be dropped, to create a name that might,
seemingly, be the 'original' for Valencia, (the province), as 'Julus'
was
the original for 'Julius', 'Alexandra' for 'Alexandria', 'Persa' for
'Persia', 'Galla' for 'Gallia', 'Tarquina' for 'Tarquinius', etc.?

I do not understand the above either.

Can't help that; it's fairly straight forward.

Do you agree that the name Valenza is not Greek or not?

For whatever relevance, I agreed that it is not Greek. Never said
otherwise.

The name Valence is Latin and existed before Valencia did, if you refer
to
the Spanish city.

Time of origin of name is irrelevent here.

By the way, If I am not mistaken "Galla" derives from the Greek word
Gallini
and exists as a name in Russia Orthodox religion.

May or may not derive from Greek, 'though I doubt it very much! I was
speaking of the derivation of the name Gal(l)ia for France, and the
name(s) Gallus/-a. The point is the 'i' infix, and the linguistics,
actual or believed, at work in 'creating' names.

Lest we get off on an irrelevent tangeant here - names ARE sometimes
created _ex nihilo_, by parents, for children. Since Romans didn't name
their children 'Benedictus', someone had to 'create the name - unless you
think that Christians simply translated the name 'Baruch' into Latin -
(not bloody likely). And what about 'Faith', 'Hope', 'Charity',
'Prudence', 'Patience', 'Perseverence', 'Chastity', 'Petula', 'Clement',
and the whole list of names which we had about six months ago?
We are, (or at least I was, and think that most others were able to follow
my reasoning), talking about 'creating' names that MAY not have existed.
Now, if Valence/Valenz has a long and vast history behind it, (I know not
of this), it was a name 'created' in this circumstance.
You have mentioned that Greeks name their first daughter after the
paternal grandma, and the second after the maternal grandma. Since they
never, ever name their daughters after mamam, what about third, fourth or
fifth daughters? If this is not a Greek family, as you contend, then
Greek naming patterns are immaterial & irrelevent. Still, the name had to
come from some idea, if not an actual person. The question being
addressed is/was, 'What was the principle behind the name?'.


regards

""Ford Mommaerts-Browne"" <FordMommaerts@Cox.net

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