CP Correction: the death of Ala of Ponthieu, Countess of Sur

Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper

Svar
Gjest

CP Correction: the death of Ala of Ponthieu, Countess of Sur

Legg inn av Gjest » 27 feb 2006 03:27:02

Sunday, 26 February, 2006


Hello All,

According to my notes, the account in Complete Peerage
concerning Ala of Ponthieu (aka Alice, or Ela), daughter of
Guillaume 'Talvas', count of Alencon and Ponthieu and wife of
(1) William de Warenne, earl of Surrey (d. 19 Jan 1147/8) and
(2) Patrick, earl of Salisbury (d. April 1168) gives the date of
her death as 4 October 1174 [1]. Given Countess Ala's position
as mother of Isabel de Warenne, wife of Hamelin of Anjou (Earl
of Surrey de jure uxoris) and grandmother of Ela of Salisbury
(wife of William Longespee, Earl of Salisbury), she is certainly
among the most frequently recorded ancestresses of those with
known medieval English ancestry.

In a footnote to a letter of Thomas Becket, Archbishop of
Canterbury, to Countess Ala ("dilectae filiae Alae Comitissae
Warennae") dated 1162 x 1174, Sir Henry Ellis cited an entry in
the Register of Lewes priory, which gives her date of death as
10 December 1174:

" Domina Ala Comitissa Surregiae, filia Comitis de
Belesme et uxor Willielmi tertii. Obiit quarto Idus
Decembris Anno gratiae Millesimo clxxiiij. et anno
xxvi'to post virum suum. Ubi sepulta est nescitur. " [2]

As Ellis rendered the entry, it 'states simply who she was;
that she died on the 4th of the ides of December 1174, twenty-six
years after her husband, and that it was not known where she was
interred.' It appears that the source used in CP had garbled the
date, taking '4th' as the day of the month and also somehow
substituting October for December.

Should anyone have ready access to the relevant text and
documentation in CP, that information and citations (presumably
confirming my notes as cited above) would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

John *




[1] Notes taken from CP XII:496. The repetition of the
alleged death date in Genealogics (ID I00015382) and
the Stirnet website (URL:

http://www.stirnet.com/HTML/genie/briti ... 1.htm#link

confirms that the CP account gives 4 October 1174 as the
date of death.


[2] Sir Henry Ellis, Original Letters, Illustrative of English
History (London: Richard Bentley, 1846), Third Series,
I:25, cites 'Reg. Priorat. Lewes. fol. 107 b.'



* John P. Ravilious

Chris Phillips

Re: CP Correction: the death of Ala of Ponthieu, Countess of

Legg inn av Chris Phillips » 27 feb 2006 09:37:17

John P. Ravilious wrote:
According to my notes, the account in Complete Peerage
concerning Ala of Ponthieu (aka Alice, or Ela), daughter of
Guillaume 'Talvas', count of Alencon and Ponthieu and wife of
(1) William de Warenne, earl of Surrey (d. 19 Jan 1147/8) and
(2) Patrick, earl of Salisbury (d. April 1168) gives the date of
her death as 4 October 1174 [1].
....
Should anyone have ready access to the relevant text and
documentation in CP, that information and citations (presumably
confirming my notes as cited above) would be greatly appreciated.


CP volume 12, part 1, p. 497, says "She is said to have d. 4 Oct. 1174", and
a footnote cites "G. W. Watson in Genealogist, N.S., vol. xi, p. 132, and
authorities there cited".

Chris Phillips

Svar

Gå tilbake til «soc.genealogy.medieval»