Why Thomas Talbot ?

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Why Thomas Talbot ?

Legg inn av Gjest » 25 feb 2006 15:27:01

Dear List Members,
According to Burke`s Dormant and Extinct
Peerages by Sir Bernard Burke, Ulster King of Arms (1883) Reprint edition (1985)
under Grey of Wilton p 246 Henry de Grey, 5th Baron Grey of Wilton was married
to Elizabeth , daughter of Thomas, Lord Talbot but on page 526 She is stated
to have been a daughter of Gilbert, Lord Talbot and his wife Pernel Butler.
Gilbert was the elder son of Richard Talbot, Lord Talbot by Elizabeth Comyn.
Where there is an elder, there is usually a younger,,, but why would Richard and
Elizabeth have named a son Thomas, the name to this point does not seem to
have run to Thomases. At the death in 1306 of John Comyn the Red, his uncle
Sir Robert Comyn was also slain, this Sir Robert married probably around 1290
and fathered a son Thomas Comyn in 1292 or 1296. Following the death of John,
Elizabeth`s brother at Bannockburn in 1314 and of his infant son Aymer in 1316,
Thomas seems to have inherited the chiefship of Clan Comyn. In the following
year He evidently made peace with King Robert I of the Scots who granted him
the land of Altyre and allowed him to marry Helen Arbuthnot in 1317. He
further was recognized as Clan chief and either He or his eldest son Richard was
made Chief Forrester and Ambassador to England.
So if this younger son were named Thomas, it was probably for Elizabeth`s
kinsman Thomas Comyn of Altyre.
Sincerely,
James W Cummings
Dixmont, Maine USA

Douglas Richardson

Elizabeth, wife of Sir Henry de Grey, 5th Lord Grey of Wilto

Legg inn av Douglas Richardson » 25 feb 2006 18:37:35

Dear James ~

Sir Henry de Grey's wife, Elizabeth, is commonly identified as the
daughter of Gilbert Talbot, Knt., 3rd Lord Talbot. This affiliation
appears to be based on a faulty Grey pedigree found in the 1619
Visitation of Leicestershire, which actually calls Elizabeth the
daughter of Thomas (sic) Talbot. The Visitation of Cambridgeshire
mentions an Elizabeth Engaine, daughter of John Engaine, of Teversham,
Cambridgeshire, who married "... Gray of Wilton" [see Cooke & St.
George Vis. of Cambridge 1575 & 1619 (H.S.P. 41) (1897): 89-91 (St.
George pedigree)]. Since Elizabeth Engaine appears to have been a
contemporary of Henry de Grey of Wilton, the possibility exists that
Henry de Grey's wife was actually Elizabeth Engaine, not Elizabeth
Talbot. This matter needs further research. For the Engaine family of
Teversham, see VCH Cambridge 8 (1982): 168; Rye Pedes Finium or Fines
Rel. Cambridge (1891): 95, 105, 112, 120.]

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

Website: http://www.royalancestry.net

Jwc1870@aol.com wrote:
Dear List Members,
According to Burke`s Dormant and Extinct
Peerages by Sir Bernard Burke, Ulster King of Arms (1883) Reprint edition (1985)
under Grey of Wilton p 246 Henry de Grey, 5th Baron Grey of Wilton was married
to Elizabeth , daughter of Thomas, Lord Talbot but on page 526 She is stated
to have been a daughter of Gilbert, Lord Talbot and his wife Pernel Butler.
Gilbert was the elder son of Richard Talbot, Lord Talbot by Elizabeth Comyn.
Where there is an elder, there is usually a younger,,, but why would Richard and
Elizabeth have named a son Thomas, the name to this point does not seem to
have run to Thomases. At the death in 1306 of John Comyn the Red, his uncle
Sir Robert Comyn was also slain, this Sir Robert married probably around 1290
and fathered a son Thomas Comyn in 1292 or 1296. Following the death of John,
Elizabeth`s brother at Bannockburn in 1314 and of his infant son Aymer in 1316,
Thomas seems to have inherited the chiefship of Clan Comyn. In the following
year He evidently made peace with King Robert I of the Scots who granted him
the land of Altyre and allowed him to marry Helen Arbuthnot in 1317. He
further was recognized as Clan chief and either He or his eldest son Richard was
made Chief Forrester and Ambassador to England.
So if this younger son were named Thomas, it was probably for Elizabeth`s
kinsman Thomas Comyn of Altyre.
Sincerely,
James W Cummings
Dixmont, Maine USA

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