in armata manu

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in armata manu

Legg inn av Gjest » 20 feb 2006 20:03:32

A 14th Century charters specifies that one of the signatories signed it
"in armata manu". Several early scholars who noted it had no idea what
that phrase implied. Does anyone here know?

alden@mindspring.com

Re: in armata manu

Legg inn av alden@mindspring.com » 21 feb 2006 17:24:20

geraldrm@earthlink.net wrote:
A 14th Century charters specifies that one of the signatories signed it
"in armata manu". Several early scholars who noted it had no idea what
that phrase implied. Does anyone here know?

Not entirely sure:

See Edward Gibbons, Decline and Fall..., Vol. 6 Chapter LXI, Part 2

Footnote uses phrase

"[Footnote 46: Matthew Paris relates the two visits of Baldwin II. to
the English court, p. 396, 637; his return to Greece armatâ manû, p.
407 his letters of his nomen formidabile, &c., p. 481, (a passage which
has escaped Ducange;) his expulsion, p. 850.]"

Since Baldwin returned with a crusader army, I would guess

arm stem = armor
manu = hand

perhaps with a band of armed men?

I am not a Latin Scholar.

Will check some more


Doug Smith

Gjest

Re: in armata manu

Legg inn av Gjest » 21 feb 2006 17:39:20

alden@mindspring.com wrote:
"> arm stem = armor
manu = hand
perhaps with a band of armed men?"


The literal meaning is indeed "with a band of armed men", although
"wearing a gauntlet" is equally acceptable. These meanings were
already noted by the editor, who confessed that they made no practical
sense when applied to someone signing a document. There has to be
something more to it.

JohnR

Re: in armata manu

Legg inn av JohnR » 22 feb 2006 11:54:32

A pure guess - is it an early form of the 20th century "soldier's will"
i.e. a soldier can make a will and sign certain other documents whilst
under age when facing or under orders to face actual active service.

Gjest

Re: in armata manu

Legg inn av Gjest » 22 feb 2006 11:58:48

geraldrm@earthlink.net schrieb:

alden@mindspring.com wrote:
"> arm stem = armor
manu = hand
perhaps with a band of armed men?"


The literal meaning is indeed "with a band of armed men", although
"wearing a gauntlet" is equally acceptable. These meanings were
already noted by the editor, who confessed that they made no practical
sense when applied to someone signing a document. There has to be
something more to it.

As other posters have suggested, could it not imply either that the
document was signed under duress, or "with an armoured hand" - i.e.
that the signature was not of its usual quality? In order to assess
these possibilities, is it known whether the "signature" on the
document in question is indeed a signature, or merely a seal? If the
former, are there any other signatures by the same party with which it
may be compared?

alden@mindspring.com

Re: in armata manu

Legg inn av alden@mindspring.com » 22 feb 2006 19:09:44

Context

Would have to know more about the document.

Doug

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