Sunday, 12 February, 2006
Dear Doug, et al.,
While not bearing directly on the recent discussion of 'King's
kinsmen', an interesting instance of kinship has been noted which
indicates either (A) a more extended concept of acknowledged (and
'acknowledgeable') kinship in 14th century England, or (B) an
interesting relationship between the Hastings family of Elsing and
Gressenhall and the English royal family, closer than those
identified to date.
Anthony Goodman wrote an article in the English Historical
Review (1980) concerning Sir Hugh de Hastings and his participa-
tion in the campaign of John of Gaunt against Castile [1]. In
this article, which is an interesting read in its own right,
Goodman writes that in 1386 Sir Hugh " participated in the
invasion of Galicia led by his 'treschier Cousin' John of Gaunt to
enforce the latter's title to the crown of Castile."[2] In
documenting this statement, Goodman wrote,
" John of Gaunt called him 'treschier Cousin' in his
privy seal letter, dated Plymouth, 18 June 1386,
recording the accord made in his presence by Hastings
and John Chercheman, citizen of London (N.N.C.R.O.,
NA 4, Le Strange). " [3]
The closest identified blood relationship between Edward III
(father of John of Gaunt) and Sir Hugh de Hastings (d. 1347,
grandfather of the subject Sir Hugh) is that of 4th cousin 1x
removed [4]. If the common descent from Aubri II de Dammartin was
the source of the relationship John of Gaunt had in mind in 1386,
this was somewhat more distant, with John and Sir Hugh being 5th
cousins 2x removed (see chart below).
Aubri II = Maud de
de Dammartin I Clermont
_________________________I_________
I I
Simon de = Marie de Juliana = Hugh 'V'
Dammartin I Ponthieu de Dammartin I de Gournay
I__________ I____
I I
Ferdinand III = 2) Joan de William de = Millicent de
K of Castile I Ponthieu Cantelou I Gournay
I____ _______I
I I
Edward I = Eleanor of William de = Eve de Braose
K of England I Castile Cantelou I
____I I____
I I
Edward II of England Sir Henry de = Joan de
I Hastings I Cantelou
I _________I
I I
Edward III of England Sir John de = 2) Isabel le
I Hastings I Despenser
I _________I
I I
JOHN of Gaunt Sir Hugh = Margery
de Hastings I Foliot
d. 1347 I
________I
I
Hugh = Margaret
de Hastings I de Everingham
I
I
Sir HUGH
de Hastings
d. 1386
It might be argued that John of Gaunt was calling to mind a
relationship through marriage: his late wife Blanche of Lancaster
was 2nd cousin 1x removed to Sir Hugh (common descent from Isabel
de Beauchamp). Further, Anne le Despenser, Sir Hugh's wife, was
2nd cousin 2x removed of John of Gaunt (common descent from Edward
I of England and Eleanor of Castile). It does appear that most
such statements of kinship were based upon blood relationships,
and not by marriage: if this is true, there may be some rather
interesting ancestry yet to be discovered for Sir Hugh de
Hastings, through either his great-grandmother Margaret (wife of
Sir John d'Eiville, d. ca. 1325) or great-great grandmother Agnes
(first wife of Sir William de Braose or Breuse, of Bramber and
Gower, d. bef 1 May 1326).
Cheers,
John *
NOTES
[1] Anthony Goodman, The Military Subcontracts of Sir Hugh
Hastings, 1380 (English Historical Review, Jan 1380)
Vol. 95, No. 374, pp. 114-120.
[2] Ibid., p. 115.
[3] Ibid., p. 115, note <9>.
[4] See J. Ravilious, <CP Correction: Sir Hugh de Hastings,
kinsman of Edward III of England >, SGM, 1 Sept 2004.
Sir Hugh de Hastings, 'treschier Cousin' of John of Gaunt
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Douglas Richardson
Re: Sir Hugh de Hastings, 'treschier Cousin' of John of Gaun
Dear John ~
Great find. Very interesting. Thank you for sharing this information
with the newsgroup.
While Duke John of Gaunt and Sir Hugh de Hastings share a common
descent from the Dammartin family (as noted in your post), still it is
a bit distant. I suspect that the kinship may come through another
part of Sir Hugh de Hastings' ancestry, albeit in those parts of his
ancestry which are unknown. One person in the Hastings ancestry that I
have always suspected of being high born is Sir Hugh de Hastings'
great-great-grandmother, Maud, wife successively of James de Audley
(died 1273) and John d'Eiville (died 1291). You've also raised two
other possibilities: Sir Hugh's great-grandmother, Margaret (wife of
Sir John d'Eiville, died ca. 1325), and his great-great grandmother,
Agnes (first wife of Sir William de Braose or Breuse, of Bramber and
Gower, died before 1 May 1326). All of these women should be
considered as possible "gateway" ancestresses.
Since so much of John of Gaunt's ancestry is continental, we are left
with few possibilities on his side. With a bit of elbow grease, I
believe this kinship can be determined. One good place to start would
be to examine the land holdings of the d'Eiville family to see if a
maritagium for one of the early wives can be spotted. If a connection
to John of Gaunt is through an Eiville wife, then we can be sure that
she was high born and would likely have come with a maritagium that can
be traced.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Website: http://www.royalancestry.net
therav3@aol.com wrote:
Great find. Very interesting. Thank you for sharing this information
with the newsgroup.
While Duke John of Gaunt and Sir Hugh de Hastings share a common
descent from the Dammartin family (as noted in your post), still it is
a bit distant. I suspect that the kinship may come through another
part of Sir Hugh de Hastings' ancestry, albeit in those parts of his
ancestry which are unknown. One person in the Hastings ancestry that I
have always suspected of being high born is Sir Hugh de Hastings'
great-great-grandmother, Maud, wife successively of James de Audley
(died 1273) and John d'Eiville (died 1291). You've also raised two
other possibilities: Sir Hugh's great-grandmother, Margaret (wife of
Sir John d'Eiville, died ca. 1325), and his great-great grandmother,
Agnes (first wife of Sir William de Braose or Breuse, of Bramber and
Gower, died before 1 May 1326). All of these women should be
considered as possible "gateway" ancestresses.
Since so much of John of Gaunt's ancestry is continental, we are left
with few possibilities on his side. With a bit of elbow grease, I
believe this kinship can be determined. One good place to start would
be to examine the land holdings of the d'Eiville family to see if a
maritagium for one of the early wives can be spotted. If a connection
to John of Gaunt is through an Eiville wife, then we can be sure that
she was high born and would likely have come with a maritagium that can
be traced.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Website: http://www.royalancestry.net
therav3@aol.com wrote:
Sunday, 12 February, 2006
Dear Doug, et al.,
While not bearing directly on the recent discussion of 'King's
kinsmen', an interesting instance of kinship has been noted which
indicates either (A) a more extended concept of acknowledged (and
'acknowledgeable') kinship in 14th century England, or (B) an
interesting relationship between the Hastings family of Elsing and
Gressenhall and the English royal family, closer than those
identified to date.
Anthony Goodman wrote an article in the English Historical
Review (1980) concerning Sir Hugh de Hastings and his participa-
tion in the campaign of John of Gaunt against Castile [1]. In
this article, which is an interesting read in its own right,
Goodman writes that in 1386 Sir Hugh " participated in the
invasion of Galicia led by his 'treschier Cousin' John of Gaunt to
enforce the latter's title to the crown of Castile."[2] In
documenting this statement, Goodman wrote,
" John of Gaunt called him 'treschier Cousin' in his
privy seal letter, dated Plymouth, 18 June 1386,
recording the accord made in his presence by Hastings
and John Chercheman, citizen of London (N.N.C.R.O.,
NA 4, Le Strange). " [3]
The closest identified blood relationship between Edward III
(father of John of Gaunt) and Sir Hugh de Hastings (d. 1347,
grandfather of the subject Sir Hugh) is that of 4th cousin 1x
removed [4]. If the common descent from Aubri II de Dammartin was
the source of the relationship John of Gaunt had in mind in 1386,
this was somewhat more distant, with John and Sir Hugh being 5th
cousins 2x removed (see chart below).
Aubri II = Maud de
de Dammartin I Clermont
_________________________I_________
I I
Simon de = Marie de Juliana = Hugh 'V'
Dammartin I Ponthieu de Dammartin I de Gournay
I__________ I____
I I
Ferdinand III = 2) Joan de William de = Millicent de
K of Castile I Ponthieu Cantelou I Gournay
I____ _______I
I I
Edward I = Eleanor of William de = Eve de Braose
K of England I Castile Cantelou I
____I I____
I I
Edward II of England Sir Henry de = Joan de
I Hastings I Cantelou
I _________I
I I
Edward III of England Sir John de = 2) Isabel le
I Hastings I Despenser
I _________I
I I
JOHN of Gaunt Sir Hugh = Margery
de Hastings I Foliot
d. 1347 I
________I
I
Hugh = Margaret
de Hastings I de Everingham
I
I
Sir HUGH
de Hastings
d. 1386
It might be argued that John of Gaunt was calling to mind a
relationship through marriage: his late wife Blanche of Lancaster
was 2nd cousin 1x removed to Sir Hugh (common descent from Isabel
de Beauchamp). Further, Anne le Despenser, Sir Hugh's wife, was
2nd cousin 2x removed of John of Gaunt (common descent from Edward
I of England and Eleanor of Castile). It does appear that most
such statements of kinship were based upon blood relationships,
and not by marriage: if this is true, there may be some rather
interesting ancestry yet to be discovered for Sir Hugh de
Hastings, through either his great-grandmother Margaret (wife of
Sir John d'Eiville, d. ca. 1325) or great-great grandmother Agnes
(first wife of Sir William de Braose or Breuse, of Bramber and
Gower, d. bef 1 May 1326).
Cheers,
John *
NOTES
[1] Anthony Goodman, The Military Subcontracts of Sir Hugh
Hastings, 1380 (English Historical Review, Jan 1380)
Vol. 95, No. 374, pp. 114-120.
[2] Ibid., p. 115.
[3] Ibid., p. 115, note <9>.
[4] See J. Ravilious, <CP Correction: Sir Hugh de Hastings,
kinsman of Edward III of England >, SGM, 1 Sept 2004.