Dispensation versus generations

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Dispensation versus generations

Legg inn av Gjest » 09 feb 2006 22:31:39

Just a short enquiry to verify my research finding, browsing the
newsgroup.

At the Fourth Latheran Council of 1215 the prohibited degrees between
marriage partners was changed from 7th to 4th grade.
Since then marriage dispensation was needed for intended spouses
related in the 4th degree.
The marriage partners need not be of the same generation of descent.
In those examples the longer line of descent was dominating the way of
counting.

So when one finds a dispensation for consanguiny in the 4th degree one
might assume that in any case the (longer) line of descent would have
to be a descent from a great-great grandfather/mother.

great-great-grandfather/mother....=....great-grandfather/mother....generation
4

great
grandfather/mother..........................grandfather/mother.....generation
3

grandfather/mother...grandfather/mother....father/mother.............generation
2

father/mother...........father/mother............marriage partner
Y.....generation 1

marriage partner X....marriage partner Y

Correct?

With regards,
Hans Vogels

Chris Phillips

Re: Dispensation versus generations

Legg inn av Chris Phillips » 09 feb 2006 23:08:09

Hans Vogels wrote:
At the Fourth Latheran Council of 1215 the prohibited degrees between
marriage partners was changed from 7th to 4th grade.
Since then marriage dispensation was needed for intended spouses
related in the 4th degree.
The marriage partners need not be of the same generation of descent.
In those examples the longer line of descent was dominating the way of
counting.

So when one finds a dispensation for consanguiny in the 4th degree one
might assume that in any case the (longer) line of descent would have
to be a descent from a great-great grandfather/mother.


That's my understanding.

If in doubt I go by Nat Taylor's online summary (with diagrams) here:
http://www.rootsweb.com/~medieval/consang.htm

Chris Phillips

Nathaniel Taylor

Re: Dispensation versus generations

Legg inn av Nathaniel Taylor » 10 feb 2006 02:51:01

In article <dsgeii$22v$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>,
"Chris Phillips" <cgp@medievalgenealogy.org.uk> wrote:

Hans Vogels wrote:
At the Fourth Latheran Council of 1215 the prohibited degrees between
marriage partners was changed from 7th to 4th grade.
Since then marriage dispensation was needed for intended spouses
related in the 4th degree.
The marriage partners need not be of the same generation of descent.
In those examples the longer line of descent was dominating the way of
counting.

So when one finds a dispensation for consanguiny in the 4th degree one
might assume that in any case the (longer) line of descent would have
to be a descent from a great-great grandfather/mother.


That's my understanding.

If in doubt I go by Nat Taylor's online summary (with diagrams) here:
http://www.rootsweb.com/~medieval/consang.htm

Since I wrote that I've seen more examples (from 13th but more often
from 14th c.) where a text specifies that two people are related in the
'3d and 4th degree' (for example), which means two different
generational lengths from a common ancestor, rather than two separate
common ancestors. But in any case, I think the longer line would still
be the determining factor in measuring against a consanguinity or
affinity threshold, though I would like to this confirmed by example or
statute / commentary.

Nat Taylor

a genealogist's sketchbook:
http://home.earthlink.net/~nathanieltaylor/leaves/

my children's 17th-century American immigrant ancestors:
http://home.earthlink.net/~nathanieltay ... rantsa.htm

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