John Needham, b. 1575 of Syston, Leicestershire
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
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Concetta
John Needham, b. 1575 of Syston, Leicestershire
Hello!
I am making my first wade back into near-medieval genealogy and am
wondering if the kind members of this forum might be able to assist me.
I am working on the genealogy of the aforementioned John
Needham/Nedham/Nedeha, who attended Lincoln College in 1587. (at least,
according to a surname dictionary).
His family line traces through Syston, and then Queniborough,
Leicestershire, until the family becomes a group of Baptist ministers
who run amok all over England. But that's another story.
So far, the only proof I have of John's existence is the Lincoln
College entry and his children's information (which I am still working
on *solid* evidence for). I'm a bit baffled as to where to begin for
Leicestershire near-medieval and medieval level sources to try and
understand who his parents were.
I am curious to know if he fits with any of the Nedham families that
are so widely discussed in this forum, or whether he doesn't. I
understand the need to not give away an entire genealogy, but I would
like to know if any of you have helpful directions to point me in.
Thanks,
Concetta
I am making my first wade back into near-medieval genealogy and am
wondering if the kind members of this forum might be able to assist me.
I am working on the genealogy of the aforementioned John
Needham/Nedham/Nedeha, who attended Lincoln College in 1587. (at least,
according to a surname dictionary).
His family line traces through Syston, and then Queniborough,
Leicestershire, until the family becomes a group of Baptist ministers
who run amok all over England. But that's another story.
So far, the only proof I have of John's existence is the Lincoln
College entry and his children's information (which I am still working
on *solid* evidence for). I'm a bit baffled as to where to begin for
Leicestershire near-medieval and medieval level sources to try and
understand who his parents were.
I am curious to know if he fits with any of the Nedham families that
are so widely discussed in this forum, or whether he doesn't. I
understand the need to not give away an entire genealogy, but I would
like to know if any of you have helpful directions to point me in.
Thanks,
Concetta
-
Gjest
Re: John Needham, b. 1575 of Syston, Leicestershire
Concetta schrieb:
Have you tried the Alumni Oxoniensis which is presumably the source for
this reference? It sometimes gives the father and native place.
MAR
Hello!
I am making my first wade back into near-medieval genealogy and am
wondering if the kind members of this forum might be able to assist me.
I am working on the genealogy of the aforementioned John
Needham/Nedham/Nedeha, who attended Lincoln College in 1587. (at least,
according to a surname dictionary).
Have you tried the Alumni Oxoniensis which is presumably the source for
this reference? It sometimes gives the father and native place.
MAR
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Concetta
Re: John Needham, b. 1575 of Syston, Leicestershire
Yes, I've enquired with the Oxford College archivists who searched the
book for me. All that they could find is that he is "of Syston".
Unfortunately, the archivist also mentioned that is a problem for many
of the entries. I don't have the entry in front of me, but if I recall
correctly it alluded to a theology degree.
My current theory (and this is totally, wildly unproven so don't nail
me to the wall on it) is that he was a third or fourth son, who was
expected to be a low-ranking member of the clergy who ended up getting
married (or not) and having children - and so care was not taken with
his records as he was not expected to be important.
Concetta
book for me. All that they could find is that he is "of Syston".
Unfortunately, the archivist also mentioned that is a problem for many
of the entries. I don't have the entry in front of me, but if I recall
correctly it alluded to a theology degree.
My current theory (and this is totally, wildly unproven so don't nail
me to the wall on it) is that he was a third or fourth son, who was
expected to be a low-ranking member of the clergy who ended up getting
married (or not) and having children - and so care was not taken with
his records as he was not expected to be important.
Concetta
-
Gjest
Re: John Needham, b. 1575 of Syston, Leicestershire
Concetta schrieb:
You could well be right about his being a younger son destined for the
Church. However, if he matriculated at Oxford in 1587, I think it is
likely that he was older than 12 - i.e. probably born more like 1570
than 1575.
MAR
Yes, I've enquired with the Oxford College archivists who searched the
book for me. All that they could find is that he is "of Syston".
Unfortunately, the archivist also mentioned that is a problem for many
of the entries. I don't have the entry in front of me, but if I recall
correctly it alluded to a theology degree.
My current theory (and this is totally, wildly unproven so don't nail
me to the wall on it) is that he was a third or fourth son, who was
expected to be a low-ranking member of the clergy who ended up getting
married (or not) and having children - and so care was not taken with
his records as he was not expected to be important.
You could well be right about his being a younger son destined for the
Church. However, if he matriculated at Oxford in 1587, I think it is
likely that he was older than 12 - i.e. probably born more like 1570
than 1575.
MAR
-
Gjest
Re: John Needham, b. 1575 of Syston, Leicestershire
Concetta schrieb:
I assume that "of Syston" refers to after his graduation, possibly as a
clergyman, rather than his place of origin. The Syston registers
should indicate whether he held the living (i.e. was the rector or
vicar of Syston). According to Phillimore, the deposited registers
only go back to 1642, but there is said to be a transcript at the
Society of Genealogists' Library in London covering 1562 to 1952
(perhaps a few early stray records, or Bishop's Transcripts?). That
may be worth looking at, in case it gives further details of your John.
(I see from the IGI that he is said to have married, perhaps firstly,
Joan - this may be the marriage of John Needham and Joan Ball at Ashby
de la Zouche, 26 July 1602; did he then re-marry in 1620 at Syston to
Alice Browne?) There's nothing obvious in the PCC wills index.
Yes, I've enquired with the Oxford College archivists who searched the
book for me. All that they could find is that he is "of Syston".
Unfortunately, the archivist also mentioned that is a problem for many
of the entries. I don't have the entry in front of me, but if I recall
correctly it alluded to a theology degree.
I assume that "of Syston" refers to after his graduation, possibly as a
clergyman, rather than his place of origin. The Syston registers
should indicate whether he held the living (i.e. was the rector or
vicar of Syston). According to Phillimore, the deposited registers
only go back to 1642, but there is said to be a transcript at the
Society of Genealogists' Library in London covering 1562 to 1952
(perhaps a few early stray records, or Bishop's Transcripts?). That
may be worth looking at, in case it gives further details of your John.
(I see from the IGI that he is said to have married, perhaps firstly,
Joan - this may be the marriage of John Needham and Joan Ball at Ashby
de la Zouche, 26 July 1602; did he then re-marry in 1620 at Syston to
Alice Browne?) There's nothing obvious in the PCC wills index.
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Tim Powys-Lybbe
Re: John Needham, b. 1575 of Syston, Leicestershire
In message of 6 Feb, mjcar@btinternet.com wrote:
The Alumni Oxoniensis is available on CDROM and from my copy there are
six John Needhams who went to Oxford between 1500-1574. Two of these
went to Lincoln:
"Needham, John, of co. Leicester, pleb. Lincoln Coll, matric. 1 Dec
1587, aged 14. See next entry."
"Needham, John, B.A. from Christ Church 8 July 1619, M.A. 29 May,
1622: possibly a student of Gray's Inn 1622, as of Ilston, co
Leicester, gent; see Edward 1651. See Foster's Gray's Inn Reg. &
O.H.S. xii 376."
"Nedham, Edward, gent. Lincoln Coll, matric. 11 Dec 1651, student
of Gray's Inn 1655, as son and heir of John of Ilston, co.
Leicester, esq; father of Giles 1686. See Foster's Inns of Court
reg."
"Needham, John, s. Edw., of Ilston, co Leicester, gent. Lincoln Coll.
matric. 23 June 1582 aged 17; student of Gray's Inn 1683, perhaps
vicar of Thurnby, co. Leicester, 1686. See Foster's Gray's Inn Reg."
Sounds upwardly mobile enough to have got themselves into a visitation
somewhere.
--
Tim Powys-Lybbe tim@powys.org
For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org
Concetta schrieb:
Hello!
I am making my first wade back into near-medieval genealogy and am
wondering if the kind members of this forum might be able to assist me.
I am working on the genealogy of the aforementioned John
Needham/Nedham/Nedeha, who attended Lincoln College in 1587. (at least,
according to a surname dictionary).
Have you tried the Alumni Oxoniensis which is presumably the source for
this reference? It sometimes gives the father and native place.
The Alumni Oxoniensis is available on CDROM and from my copy there are
six John Needhams who went to Oxford between 1500-1574. Two of these
went to Lincoln:
"Needham, John, of co. Leicester, pleb. Lincoln Coll, matric. 1 Dec
1587, aged 14. See next entry."
"Needham, John, B.A. from Christ Church 8 July 1619, M.A. 29 May,
1622: possibly a student of Gray's Inn 1622, as of Ilston, co
Leicester, gent; see Edward 1651. See Foster's Gray's Inn Reg. &
O.H.S. xii 376."
"Nedham, Edward, gent. Lincoln Coll, matric. 11 Dec 1651, student
of Gray's Inn 1655, as son and heir of John of Ilston, co.
Leicester, esq; father of Giles 1686. See Foster's Inns of Court
reg."
"Needham, John, s. Edw., of Ilston, co Leicester, gent. Lincoln Coll.
matric. 23 June 1582 aged 17; student of Gray's Inn 1683, perhaps
vicar of Thurnby, co. Leicester, 1686. See Foster's Gray's Inn Reg."
Sounds upwardly mobile enough to have got themselves into a visitation
somewhere.
--
Tim Powys-Lybbe tim@powys.org
For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org
-
Concetta
Re: John Needham, b. 1575 of Syston, Leicestershire
Tim,
Thank you for looking these up for me - I very much appreciate it. It,
however, brings further confusion to the mix. If Edward entered at age
14 (like his father), that would mean he was born ca. 1637, which seems
kind of late for my John Needham.
The children I currently have for John are:
¨George Needham b. ca. 1600 m. to Martha
¨William Needham ch. 26 January 1605 Syston, Leicester, England m. to
Elizabeth
¨Thomas (Taylor) Needham ch. 21 January 1607/8, Syston, Leicester,
England m. Mary, 1638 Syston
¨John Needham ch. 29 November 1612, Syston, Leicester, England
¨Martha Needham ch. 23 April 1620, Syston, Leicester, England
These, of course, could be wildly off as they come from family
information. Of course that's not to say he wasn't adopted or
something. Interesting thing to research. But I'm really confused by
the last entry:
"Needham, John, s. Edw., of Ilston, co Leicester, gent. Lincoln Coll.
matric. 23 June 1582 aged 17; student of Gray's Inn 1683, perhaps
vicar of Thurnby, co. Leicester, 1686. See Foster's Gray's Inn Reg."
Does that mean they think John was vicar in Thurby in 1686? At age 113?
Oy. I'm beginning to think there are two John Needhams, and they're
starting to get mixed up.
Thanks for giving me some more to think about. I'll have to see if
there is a guide or tutorial to the visitations and see what I can dig
up there, as well.
Concetta
Thank you for looking these up for me - I very much appreciate it. It,
however, brings further confusion to the mix. If Edward entered at age
14 (like his father), that would mean he was born ca. 1637, which seems
kind of late for my John Needham.
The children I currently have for John are:
¨George Needham b. ca. 1600 m. to Martha
¨William Needham ch. 26 January 1605 Syston, Leicester, England m. to
Elizabeth
¨Thomas (Taylor) Needham ch. 21 January 1607/8, Syston, Leicester,
England m. Mary, 1638 Syston
¨John Needham ch. 29 November 1612, Syston, Leicester, England
¨Martha Needham ch. 23 April 1620, Syston, Leicester, England
These, of course, could be wildly off as they come from family
information. Of course that's not to say he wasn't adopted or
something. Interesting thing to research. But I'm really confused by
the last entry:
"Needham, John, s. Edw., of Ilston, co Leicester, gent. Lincoln Coll.
matric. 23 June 1582 aged 17; student of Gray's Inn 1683, perhaps
vicar of Thurnby, co. Leicester, 1686. See Foster's Gray's Inn Reg."
Does that mean they think John was vicar in Thurby in 1686? At age 113?
Oy. I'm beginning to think there are two John Needhams, and they're
starting to get mixed up.
Thanks for giving me some more to think about. I'll have to see if
there is a guide or tutorial to the visitations and see what I can dig
up there, as well.
Concetta
-
Concetta
Re: John Needham, b. 1575 of Syston, Leicestershire
Okay, imagine my surpise when I started looking up on Google the words
"visitation" "Illston on the Hill" and Needham, and found, a
Lincolnshire visitation from 1666 online:
http://lime.weeg.uiowa.edu/~c030149a/no ... ontext.pdf
On page 28 (Adobe's paging system), aka book page 12, in the Cawdrons
of Heckington and Greate Hale, is this entry:
"Augustine [Cawdron], married Anne, da. of John Needham of Ilson in
com. Leic.;"
I certainly didn't expect to see results that quickly! I guess I'm
going to have to start building a profile of John of Ilson and my John
and seeing how the two compare.
Concetta
"visitation" "Illston on the Hill" and Needham, and found, a
Lincolnshire visitation from 1666 online:
http://lime.weeg.uiowa.edu/~c030149a/no ... ontext.pdf
On page 28 (Adobe's paging system), aka book page 12, in the Cawdrons
of Heckington and Greate Hale, is this entry:
"Augustine [Cawdron], married Anne, da. of John Needham of Ilson in
com. Leic.;"
I certainly didn't expect to see results that quickly! I guess I'm
going to have to start building a profile of John of Ilson and my John
and seeing how the two compare.
Concetta
-
Tim Powys-Lybbe
Re: John Needham, b. 1575 of Syston, Leicestershire
In message of 8 Feb, "Concetta" <cfbandit@gmail.com> wrote:
recte: 1682
Yes, probably.
Hardly. Always go for the easy solution first: a CU. Nine times out of
ten the obvious cause is the cause.
If you become a supporter of Archive CDBooks, you can buy a CDROM with
all the out-of-print Harleian visitations on the one CD. A few of the
visitations are on-line which will give you their flavour.
--
Tim Powys-Lybbe tim@powys.org
For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org
But I'm really confused by the last entry:
"Needham, John, s. Edw., of Ilston, co Leicester, gent. Lincoln Coll.
matric. 23 June 1582
recte: 1682
aged 17; student of Gray's Inn 1683, perhaps
vicar of Thurnby, co. Leicester, 1686. See Foster's Gray's Inn Reg."
Does that mean they think John was vicar in Thurby in 1686?
Yes, probably.
At age 113?
Hardly. Always go for the easy solution first: a CU. Nine times out of
ten the obvious cause is the cause.
I'll have to see if there is a guide or tutorial to the visitations
and see what I can dig up there, as well.
If you become a supporter of Archive CDBooks, you can buy a CDROM with
all the out-of-print Harleian visitations on the one CD. A few of the
visitations are on-line which will give you their flavour.
--
Tim Powys-Lybbe tim@powys.org
For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org