All,
I accidentally happened on The Manuscripts of His Grace The Duke of Rutland
on a Google Book Search. Page 10 gives information on the Lubbesthorpe
Charters.
It appears from one dated 1302 an agreement was reached between Juliana, the
relict of Roger la Zouche, dead, in which Roger, son and heir of her husband
Roger was in minority and William la Zouche[of Haryngsworth] has granted her
custody of lands and other items until Roger is of age. It also mentions
Juliana's two sons ALAN and EUDO!
in 1328 William la Zouche of Haryngsworth confirms his mother, Milicent's
charter, in her widowhood (between 1289-1296) to Roger son of SIR William la
Zouche her manor of Lobesthorpe for rendering a chaplet of roses to be
placed on the head of the image of St. Peter in the church of Lubesthorpe in
her name. Witnesses to Milicent's charter were Roger la Zouche, Alan la
Zouche and John la Zouche
The naming of Juliana's two children suggest that perhaps Roger was the
grandson of a Eudo. We know that there was Eudo, brother to Alan, and Eudo
who married Milicent. Could the elder Eudo b. ca. 1200 have had a son
William who may have married a kinswoman of Milicent's? I know this is
reaching.
In an earlier post, I asked about Margaret Biset of Farlegh Hants. I believe
she was a sister to Henry Biset and not the wife of Roger la Zouche.
May I inquire if there is any substantiation to give William la Zouche of
Essex lands at Farlegh.
Part of Oliver la Zouche's [b. c. 1250] known land lay in Hampshire as well
as Scotland and elsewhere and he had descendants other than John. I am
pursuing the sale of the lands in Hampshire by a later Oliver with wife
Isabel to the Pophams.
Any thoughts appreciated.
Pat
Lubbesthorpe Redux and other Zouche lines
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Douglas Richardson
Re: Lubbesthorpe Redux and other Zouche lines
My comments are below. DR
"Patricia Junkin" wrote:
]> Pat
In your earlier post, you asked about Margaret la Zouche, of Farleigh
Wallop, Hampshire, who was an early benefactor to Wintney Priory,
Hampshire. I identified her as Margaret Biset, wife of Roger la
Zouche, of North Molton, Devon (died 1238). I suspect that Farleigh
Wallop was part of her maritagium. The manor of Farleigh Wallop
subsequently passed to her younger son, Sir William la Zouche, then to
his son, William la Zouche the younger, then to his full sister, Joyce
la Zouche, wife of Robert de Mortimer, then to Joyce' son, William la
Zouche Mortimer, Lord Zouche, then to William's younger son, Robert la
Zouche, and so forth.
For evidence that Sir William la Zouche (son of Margaret Biset) held
Farleigh Wallop, Hampshire, see Calender of Charter Rolls.
As for the Popham family of Popham, Hampshire, the Popham family were
the eventual heirs of the Zouche family headed by Sir Oliver la Zouche,
born circa 1250.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Website: http://www.royalancestry.net
"Patricia Junkin" wrote:
All,
In an earlier post, I asked about Margaret Biset of Farlegh Hants. I believe
she was a sister to Henry Biset and not the wife of Roger la Zouche.
May I inquire if there is any substantiation to give William la Zouche of
Essex lands at Farlegh.
Part of Oliver la Zouche's [b. c. 1250] known land lay in Hampshire as well
as Scotland and elsewhere and he had descendants other than John. I am
pursuing the sale of the lands in Hampshire by a later Oliver with wife
Isabel to the Pophams.
]> Pat
In your earlier post, you asked about Margaret la Zouche, of Farleigh
Wallop, Hampshire, who was an early benefactor to Wintney Priory,
Hampshire. I identified her as Margaret Biset, wife of Roger la
Zouche, of North Molton, Devon (died 1238). I suspect that Farleigh
Wallop was part of her maritagium. The manor of Farleigh Wallop
subsequently passed to her younger son, Sir William la Zouche, then to
his son, William la Zouche the younger, then to his full sister, Joyce
la Zouche, wife of Robert de Mortimer, then to Joyce' son, William la
Zouche Mortimer, Lord Zouche, then to William's younger son, Robert la
Zouche, and so forth.
For evidence that Sir William la Zouche (son of Margaret Biset) held
Farleigh Wallop, Hampshire, see Calender of Charter Rolls.
As for the Popham family of Popham, Hampshire, the Popham family were
the eventual heirs of the Zouche family headed by Sir Oliver la Zouche,
born circa 1250.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Website: http://www.royalancestry.net
-
John P. Ravilious
Re: Lubbesthorpe Redux and other Zouche lines
Dear Pat,
Indeed, having the HMC volumes (or at least that concerning the
MSS. of the Duke of Rutland) on line is a benefit.
Back in January, I had posted the text from the same work as part
of the SGM thread <Zouche of Lubbesthorpe (revisited)> ( 8 Jan 2006).
I have reposted the relevant extracts below for ready reference.
What the exact connection is between William, father of Sir Roger,
and the first Eudo la Zouche (ancestor of the Harringworth line) has
not been proven, but I am of the opinion that Eudo la Zouche was a
nephew (not brother) of William, father of Sir Roger (and thereby, a
grandson, not son, of Sir Roger la Zouche and Margaret Bisset). I also
am of the opinion that Juliana, wife of Sir Roger la Zouche of
Lubbesthorpe, was closely related to Millicent de Cantelou, but this is
far from established.
I do think, given the names of the Lubbesthorpe line, that the
link to the Harringworth and 'main' Zouche lines of descent is quite
close; further, the heraldry of the Lubbesthorpe family indicates this
as well.
Cheers,
John
_______________________________________________________
Historical Manuscripts Commission, The Manuscripts of His
Grace the Duke of Rutland, K.G. Preserved at Belvoir Castle
(London: Printed for His Majesty's Stationery Office by
Mackie & Co., LD., 1905) IV:10-11. The text in question
follows:
" [3. LUBBESTHORPE CHARTERS.]
(26) 30 Sept. 1302. - Agreement between William la Zousche and
Juliana relict of Roger la Zousche, by which William grants to
Juliana the custody of the land of Roger son and heir of the
above Roger, of which his father died seised, for twenty-eight
pounds thirteen shillings and fourpence payable to him annually
at Haryngworth, till Roger is of age. And William grants that
ten marcs be allowed to Juliana annually, out of the above ferm,
to the use of her sons Eudo and Alan, which sum was assigned to
them by their father Roger, etc. (long detailed provisions
relating to the wardship).
Armorial seal: Zouche, with a canton.
(26) 15 Jan. 1328-9. - Notification of William la Zouche of
Haringeworthe that he has inspected and confirmed the charter of
Milicent his mother to Roger son of William la Zouche for (de)
the manor of Lubesthorp, as follows:-
[1289-1296.] - Charter of Milisent de Montealto, in her
widowhood, enfeoffing Richard la Zouche, son of Sir
William la Zouche in her manor of Lubesthorp, rendering
therefor to her and her heirs, on June 29 annually, a
chaplet of roses to be placed on the head of the image
of St. Peter in the church of Lubesthorp in her name.
Witnesses: Roger la Zouche, Alan la Zouche, Robert
Neyville, Alexander de harecourt, Andrew de Estoleye,
Peter son of Roger, John Fitz Peter, Henry de Notyngham,
John de Folevyle, knights; master Henry de Brandeston,
and Sirs (domini) Hugh de Brandeston, and John la Zouche.
Witnesses to Inspeximus: Robert Burdet, William Moton the
younger, Robert Champayn, Nicholas Charneyl, Ralph Malure,
knights (and 3 others).
Lubesthorp, Sunday after St. Hilary, 2 Edw. III.
Armorial seal: Zouche with a canton.
(26) Charter of William la Zousch', lord of Haryngworth,
enfeoffing Roger la Zousch', knight, son of Roger la Zousch',
in his manor of Lubbesthorp for the above service.
Lubbesthorpe, Sunday after St. Peter's Chair, 1 Edw. III.
[29 Feb. 1326-7].
Armorial seal: Zouche with a canton.
(26) 13 March 1362-3. - A feoffment by William la Souche,
chivaler, of 'Sires' Reynald son of William Hayward of Dalby
and John Wryght of Somerdeby is witnessed by William abbot of
Leicester, Ralf Turvyll of Normanton and three others.
Armorial seal of William: Zouche with a label.
(26) 6 Oct. 1377. - Receipt from Juliane relict of John Seint
Andrew 'que dieux assoile' to Robert de Swyllyngton 'luncle'
for
six pounds thirteen shillings and fourpence paid her from the
manor of Lubstorp, for the Christmas and Easter terms last past.
Armorial seal: Seint Andrew (mascally, with a label) impaling
Zouche. Legend: S. IU..... O ANDREA.
(26) Deed of William la Zouche of Lobisthorp granting 100
shillings or rent there to Nicholas Grene of Isham, 25 July
37 Ed. III. [1363].
Armorial seal: Zouche with a label.
(26) April 1364. - Deed of William la Zouche of Lubesthorp,
knight, vesting his manor of Lubesthorp in feoffees. Monday
after St. Gregory, 38 Ed. III.
Armorial seal: Zouche with a label.
(26) 6 Nov. 1425. - Lease of the third part of the manor of
Lubbesthorp' from Robert Cunstable of Holme in Spaldyngmore to
Thomas Assheby of Lowesby the elder for the term of his life
and two hundred years beyond, for a hundred shillings a year,
from which Robert undertakes to pay thirty shillings a year to
Katherine relict of Marmaduke Cunstable his father during her
life. Among the witnesses is Thomas Assheby the younger.
Armorial seal of Robert: Quarterly ( ) and vair, a bend.
Counterpart of preceding. Armorial seal of Thomas 'Asseby':
two bars.
(16) Letter of attorney from Robert Constable, knight,
concerning th third part of the manor of Lubbesthorp 5 Nov.,
4 Henry VI. [1425].
Armorial seal: Quarterly ( ) and vair, a bend.
(26) 1433. - Feoffment by Thomas Assheby of Lobesthorp, the
elder, of Ralf Assheby his son, and Isabel, Ralf's wife, in a
third part of the manor of Lobesthorp; to be held in free
marriage, with reversion to himself in default of their having
issue.
Hiis testibus: Roberto Moton milite; Willelmo Trussell milite;
Thoma Fowlehyrst armigero; Baldewino Bugg' armigero; Ricardo
Danet armigero.
Lobesthorp, 28 Jan. 11 Hen. VI [1432/3].
Armorial seal of Thomas: Two bars.
(26) Quitclaim from Robert Constable knight of his rights in
a third part of Lubsthorp, 8 June, 10 Edw. IV. [1470].
Armorial seal: Impaling Quarterly ( ) and vair, a bend. "
"Patricia Junkin" wrote:
Indeed, having the HMC volumes (or at least that concerning the
MSS. of the Duke of Rutland) on line is a benefit.
Back in January, I had posted the text from the same work as part
of the SGM thread <Zouche of Lubbesthorpe (revisited)> ( 8 Jan 2006).
I have reposted the relevant extracts below for ready reference.
What the exact connection is between William, father of Sir Roger,
and the first Eudo la Zouche (ancestor of the Harringworth line) has
not been proven, but I am of the opinion that Eudo la Zouche was a
nephew (not brother) of William, father of Sir Roger (and thereby, a
grandson, not son, of Sir Roger la Zouche and Margaret Bisset). I also
am of the opinion that Juliana, wife of Sir Roger la Zouche of
Lubbesthorpe, was closely related to Millicent de Cantelou, but this is
far from established.
I do think, given the names of the Lubbesthorpe line, that the
link to the Harringworth and 'main' Zouche lines of descent is quite
close; further, the heraldry of the Lubbesthorpe family indicates this
as well.
Cheers,
John
_______________________________________________________
Historical Manuscripts Commission, The Manuscripts of His
Grace the Duke of Rutland, K.G. Preserved at Belvoir Castle
(London: Printed for His Majesty's Stationery Office by
Mackie & Co., LD., 1905) IV:10-11. The text in question
follows:
" [3. LUBBESTHORPE CHARTERS.]
(26) 30 Sept. 1302. - Agreement between William la Zousche and
Juliana relict of Roger la Zousche, by which William grants to
Juliana the custody of the land of Roger son and heir of the
above Roger, of which his father died seised, for twenty-eight
pounds thirteen shillings and fourpence payable to him annually
at Haryngworth, till Roger is of age. And William grants that
ten marcs be allowed to Juliana annually, out of the above ferm,
to the use of her sons Eudo and Alan, which sum was assigned to
them by their father Roger, etc. (long detailed provisions
relating to the wardship).
Armorial seal: Zouche, with a canton.
(26) 15 Jan. 1328-9. - Notification of William la Zouche of
Haringeworthe that he has inspected and confirmed the charter of
Milicent his mother to Roger son of William la Zouche for (de)
the manor of Lubesthorp, as follows:-
[1289-1296.] - Charter of Milisent de Montealto, in her
widowhood, enfeoffing Richard la Zouche, son of Sir
William la Zouche in her manor of Lubesthorp, rendering
therefor to her and her heirs, on June 29 annually, a
chaplet of roses to be placed on the head of the image
of St. Peter in the church of Lubesthorp in her name.
Witnesses: Roger la Zouche, Alan la Zouche, Robert
Neyville, Alexander de harecourt, Andrew de Estoleye,
Peter son of Roger, John Fitz Peter, Henry de Notyngham,
John de Folevyle, knights; master Henry de Brandeston,
and Sirs (domini) Hugh de Brandeston, and John la Zouche.
Witnesses to Inspeximus: Robert Burdet, William Moton the
younger, Robert Champayn, Nicholas Charneyl, Ralph Malure,
knights (and 3 others).
Lubesthorp, Sunday after St. Hilary, 2 Edw. III.
Armorial seal: Zouche with a canton.
(26) Charter of William la Zousch', lord of Haryngworth,
enfeoffing Roger la Zousch', knight, son of Roger la Zousch',
in his manor of Lubbesthorp for the above service.
Lubbesthorpe, Sunday after St. Peter's Chair, 1 Edw. III.
[29 Feb. 1326-7].
Armorial seal: Zouche with a canton.
(26) 13 March 1362-3. - A feoffment by William la Souche,
chivaler, of 'Sires' Reynald son of William Hayward of Dalby
and John Wryght of Somerdeby is witnessed by William abbot of
Leicester, Ralf Turvyll of Normanton and three others.
Armorial seal of William: Zouche with a label.
(26) 6 Oct. 1377. - Receipt from Juliane relict of John Seint
Andrew 'que dieux assoile' to Robert de Swyllyngton 'luncle'
for
six pounds thirteen shillings and fourpence paid her from the
manor of Lubstorp, for the Christmas and Easter terms last past.
Armorial seal: Seint Andrew (mascally, with a label) impaling
Zouche. Legend: S. IU..... O ANDREA.
(26) Deed of William la Zouche of Lobisthorp granting 100
shillings or rent there to Nicholas Grene of Isham, 25 July
37 Ed. III. [1363].
Armorial seal: Zouche with a label.
(26) April 1364. - Deed of William la Zouche of Lubesthorp,
knight, vesting his manor of Lubesthorp in feoffees. Monday
after St. Gregory, 38 Ed. III.
Armorial seal: Zouche with a label.
(26) 6 Nov. 1425. - Lease of the third part of the manor of
Lubbesthorp' from Robert Cunstable of Holme in Spaldyngmore to
Thomas Assheby of Lowesby the elder for the term of his life
and two hundred years beyond, for a hundred shillings a year,
from which Robert undertakes to pay thirty shillings a year to
Katherine relict of Marmaduke Cunstable his father during her
life. Among the witnesses is Thomas Assheby the younger.
Armorial seal of Robert: Quarterly ( ) and vair, a bend.
Counterpart of preceding. Armorial seal of Thomas 'Asseby':
two bars.
(16) Letter of attorney from Robert Constable, knight,
concerning th third part of the manor of Lubbesthorp 5 Nov.,
4 Henry VI. [1425].
Armorial seal: Quarterly ( ) and vair, a bend.
(26) 1433. - Feoffment by Thomas Assheby of Lobesthorp, the
elder, of Ralf Assheby his son, and Isabel, Ralf's wife, in a
third part of the manor of Lobesthorp; to be held in free
marriage, with reversion to himself in default of their having
issue.
Hiis testibus: Roberto Moton milite; Willelmo Trussell milite;
Thoma Fowlehyrst armigero; Baldewino Bugg' armigero; Ricardo
Danet armigero.
Lobesthorp, 28 Jan. 11 Hen. VI [1432/3].
Armorial seal of Thomas: Two bars.
(26) Quitclaim from Robert Constable knight of his rights in
a third part of Lubsthorp, 8 June, 10 Edw. IV. [1470].
Armorial seal: Impaling Quarterly ( ) and vair, a bend. "
"Patricia Junkin" wrote:
All,
I accidentally happened on The Manuscripts of His Grace The Duke of Rutland
on a Google Book Search. Page 10 gives information on the Lubbesthorpe
Charters.
It appears from one dated 1302 an agreement was reached between Juliana, the
relict of Roger la Zouche, dead, in which Roger, son and heir of her husband
Roger was in minority and William la Zouche[of Haryngsworth] has granted her
custody of lands and other items until Roger is of age. It also mentions
Juliana's two sons ALAN and EUDO!
in 1328 William la Zouche of Haryngsworth confirms his mother, Milicent's
charter, in her widowhood (between 1289-1296) to Roger son of SIR William la
Zouche her manor of Lobesthorpe for rendering a chaplet of roses to be
placed on the head of the image of St. Peter in the church of Lubesthorpe in
her name. Witnesses to Milicent's charter were Roger la Zouche, Alan la
Zouche and John la Zouche
The naming of Juliana's two children suggest that perhaps Roger was the
grandson of a Eudo. We know that there was Eudo, brother to Alan, and Eudo
who married Milicent. Could the elder Eudo b. ca. 1200 have had a son
William who may have married a kinswoman of Milicent's? I know this is
reaching.
In an earlier post, I asked about Margaret Biset of Farlegh Hants. I believe
she was a sister to Henry Biset and not the wife of Roger la Zouche.
May I inquire if there is any substantiation to give William la Zouche of
Essex lands at Farlegh.
Part of Oliver la Zouche's [b. c. 1250] known land lay in Hampshire as well
as Scotland and elsewhere and he had descendants other than John. I am
pursuing the sale of the lands in Hampshire by a later Oliver with wife
Isabel to the Pophams.
Any thoughts appreciated.
Pat