Ducal Kinsfolk: François de Lorraine, Duc de Guise & his cou

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Douglas Richardson

Ducal Kinsfolk: François de Lorraine, Duc de Guise & his cou

Legg inn av Douglas Richardson » 19 jan 2006 08:26:57

Dear Newsgroup ~

In the same volume as Queen Mary Tudor's letter to Earl Francis Talbot,
I notice there is also a letter from François de Lorraine, Duc de
Guise, dated 30 July 1560, which is addressed to his cousin, John
Philip, Count Rhingrave [Reference: Manuscripts of J. Eliot Hodgkin
(Hist. MSS Comm. 15th Rep., Appendix, Pt. 2) (1897): 23, 31-32].

The ancestry of François de Lorraine, Duc de Guise, is well known. I
assume that his cousin can be identified as Johann Philipp I (born
1520, died 1566), younger son of Philipp, Graf von Salm, Wild- und
Rheingraf zu Dhaun, born 8.9.1492, died Yvoy 27.8.1521, by his wife,
Antoinette de Neufchatel (please see
http://genealogy.euweb.cz/salm/salm4.html).

Can anyone isolate the kinship between Duc François and his cousin,
Johann Philipp I? Assuming I have correctly identified the right Count
Johann Philipp, the closest connection I can spot between these two men
is 6th and 6th degree of kindred by common descent from Henri V de
Joinville, Count of Vaudemont. Normally I would expect there should be
some common ancestry a bit closer.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

Website: http://www.royalancestry.net

Douglas Richardson

Re: Ducal Kinsfolk: François de Lorraine, Duc de Guise & his

Legg inn av Douglas Richardson » 19 jan 2006 10:01:01

Dear Newsgroup ~

As a followup to my original post, it appears that John Philip, Count
Rhingrave, the cousin of François de Lorraine, Duc de Guise, can be
identified as Jean-Philippe Rhingrave, Count of Salm, second son of
Philippe Rhingrave and Antoinette de Welsch-Neubourg (or Neufchatel).
Jean-Philippe was born in 1521, and died in 1566. According to a
footnote on page 429 in the book, Commentaires de Blaise de Monluc,
marechal of France, "Jean-Philippe Rhingrave" was colonel of
lansquenets (25 Feb. 1545-13 June 1560), knight of the order (20 Feb.
1557), and seigneur usufruitier of Pontoise (15 Jan. 1557).

One of the chief residences of François de Lorraine, Duc de Guise, was
Joinville. It appears that the duke was the male line descendant of
the senior Joinville heiress, Marguerite de Joinville, by which the
Lorraine family came to possess Joinville. Jean-Philippe's mother,
Antoinette, was the daughter and co-heiress of Ferdinand de Neufchatel,
the male line descendant of Marguerite's younger sister, Alix de
Joinville. This evidently explains how Duke François was aware that
Count Jean-Philippe was his kinsman, even though the two men were
remotely related to one another.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

Website: http://www.royalancestry.net

Douglas Richardson wrote:
Dear Newsgroup ~

In the same volume as Queen Mary Tudor's letter to Earl Francis Talbot,
I notice there is also a letter from François de Lorraine, Duc de
Guise, dated 30 July 1560, which is addressed to his cousin, John
Philip, Count Rhingrave [Reference: Manuscripts of J. Eliot Hodgkin
(Hist. MSS Comm. 15th Rep., Appendix, Pt. 2) (1897): 23, 31-32].

The ancestry of François de Lorraine, Duc de Guise, is well known. I
assume that his cousin can be identified as Johann Philipp I (born
1520, died 1566), younger son of Philipp, Graf von Salm, Wild- und
Rheingraf zu Dhaun, born 8.9.1492, died Yvoy 27.8.1521, by his wife,
Antoinette de Neufchatel (please see
http://genealogy.euweb.cz/salm/salm4.html).

Can anyone isolate the kinship between Duc François and his cousin,
Johann Philipp I? Assuming I have correctly identified the right Count
Johann Philipp, the closest connection I can spot between these two men
is 6th and 6th degree of kindred by common descent from Henri V de
Joinville, Count of Vaudemont. Normally I would expect there should be
some common ancestry a bit closer.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

Website: http://www.royalancestry.net

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