The Origins of the Lovaine family

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Douglas Richardson

The Origins of the Lovaine family

Legg inn av Douglas Richardson » 18 jan 2006 20:10:38

Dear Newsgroup ~

Checking the database at Leo van de Pas' website at
http://www.genealogics.org, I've noticed that the English Lovaine family isn't
connected back to their Continental origins.

Joseph Hunter in his interesting work, Ecclesiastical Documents (Camden
Soc. 8) (1840): 63-64 includes the abstract of a charter issued by
Henry, Duke of Lorraine ["dux Lotaringiæ marchio imperii Romani"]
dated 1224-1226, which confirms to his nephew ["nepoti meo"], Matthew
de Louain, his gift made earlier to Matthew's father, Godfrey de
Louain his brother [fratri meo], being the bailiwick [ballivam] and
custody of all his lands in England, namely the honour of Eye, Suffolk.
I might point out that this charter is an example of where the Latin
word "nepos" is clearly used to mean nephew.

The editor, Mr. Hunter, explains in an accompanying note that Butkens
places in his Tables a brother of this Henry named Godfrey, on the sole
authority of a Charter of 1220, by which lands are conveyed to the
Abbey of Vorst, in which first among the witnesses is "Godefroy frere
de Duc Henri," and expresses his regret that nothing more could be
recovered respecting him.

For interest's sake, I've copied below the accepted line from Duke
Henry's nephew, Matthew de Lovaine (died 1262), down to Eleanor de
Lovaine (Leo's ID # I00139451 ), wife of Sir William de Bourghchier (or
Bourchier), 1st Lord Bourchier. Further information on this family can
be found in Complete Peerage, vol. 8, pp. 178-181.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

Website: http://www.royalancestry.net

+ + + + + + + + + + + +
LOVAINE FAMILY

1. GODFREY III, Count of Louvain, Duke of Brabant, married (2nd) IMAINE
OF LOOS.

2. GODFREY DE LOVAINE, Knt., died 1226, married ALICE DE HASTINGS.

3. MATTHEW DE LOVAINE, died 1262, married MURIEL _____.

4. MATTHEW DE LOVAINE, of Little Easton, Essex, and Bildeston, Suffolk,
died 1302, married (2nd) _____ DE BLAKENHAM, daughter of Bennet de
Blakenham.

5. THOMAS DE LOVAINE, Knt., of Little Easton, Essex, died 1345, married
JOAN _____.

6. JOHN DE LOVAINE, of Little Easton, Essex, and Bildeston, Suffolk,
died 1347, married married (2nd) MARGARET DE WESTON.

7. ELEANOR DE LOVAINE, married WILLIAM DE BOURGHCHIER (or BOURCHIER),
Knt., 1st Lord Bourchier.

John P. Ravilious

Re: The Origins of the Lovaine family

Legg inn av John P. Ravilious » 19 jan 2006 05:32:51

Dear Doug,

Thanks for your good post of the other day.

The family of Lovaine of Little Easton is well known for its
unidentified spouses (Muriel, Helisant). Beyond this, their
Carolingian ancestry is interesting. There are, in addition to the
Bourchier descent you show, two other lines of descent from this family
which spread the Lovaine ancestry across a very wide spectrum of
English and Scots families:

1. Hawise de Lovaine (see below), wife of the justiciar Sir
Philip Basset, and ancestress of the Despensers and many more besides.

2. Alianore de Lovaine, half sister of Sir Thomas de Lovaine and
wife (2ndly) of Sir William Douglas (d. bef 24 Jan 1298/9), by whom she
was the ancestress of the first two Earls of Douglas, as well as of the
families of Sandilands, and Douglas of Drumlanrig.

Hope this is of interest.

Cheers,

John


____________________________________



1 Godfrey III of Louvain
----------------------------------------
Death: 10 Aug 1190[1]
Occ: Count of Louvain and Brussels 1142-1190
Father: Godfrey II of Louvain (-<1142)
Mother: Liutgard von Sulzbach (->1163)

duke of Lower Lorraine 1143
count of Brabant 1153-1190

cf. ES I Band I.2 Tafel 229, 236, 237[1]

Spouse: Imaine of Loos [2nd wife]
Father: Louis of Loos (-1171)
Mother: Agnes of Metz

Children: Godfrey (-<1226)
William (->1224)

Other Spouses Margaret of Limbourg


1.1 Godfrey of Louvain
----------------------------------------
Death: bef 26 Apr 1226[3]

custodian of the castle of Eye in Suffolk, or
'seneschal of the honour of Eye' for his brother Henry of Brabant,
lord of same[3],[4]

in the entourage of his brother Duke Henry, attending the coronation
of King John of England, 27 May 1199[4]

cf. ES I Band I.2 Tafel 237 (Die Herzoge von Brabant)[1]

Spouse: Alice de Hastings
Father: Robert de Hastings, of Little Easton, Essex (-ca1190)
Marr: ca 1199[2]

Children: Matthew (-<1258)
John


1.1.1 Matthew de Lovaine
----------------------------------------
Death: bef Jun 1258

knight, of Little Easton, Essex

'seneschal of the honour of Eye'[4]

his uncle Henry of Brabant 'confirmed to him the custody of the
honour of Eye as his father Godfrey had held it' [CP VIII:178[3]]

'On the same day Matthew was given seisin of his father's lands '
[Eye Priory Cartulary and Charters II:xii, cites CPR 1225-1232,
27 and Exc e Rot Fin, i, 141[4]]

Spouse: Muriel
Death: aft 1274[3]

Children: Hawise
Matthew de Lovaine (<1237-<1302)


1.1.1.1 Hawise de Lovaine
----------------------------------------

1st wife of Sir Philip Basset[3]

probably the manor of Wix, Essex was part of her maritagium (held
of Sir Matthew de Lovaine by her daughter, 1271)

Aline Basset was her daughter:
' Aline la Despenser ' had a grant from her husband Roger le Bigod,
earl of Norfolk
" for all his lifetime, all the manors which fall and descend to
him and to her by the death of Philip Basset her father, from both
her father's inheritance and that of Helwise, her late mother. '
[charter dated Nov 1276xNov 1277, Morris p. 221[5], cites Morant,
Hist. Antiq. Essex II:269]

Spouse: Sir Philip Basset, Justiciar of England
Death: 29 Oct 1271[3]
Father: Alan Basset, of Wycombe, co. Bucks. (-1231)
Mother: Aline de Gai

Children: Aline (<1247-<1281)


1.1.1.1.1a Aline Basset*
----------------------------------------
Death: bef 11 Apr 1281[3]
Birth: bef Dec 1247[3]

heiress of her father.
had in free marriage the manor of Wix, Essex, held in 1271 of Sir
Matthew de Lovaine by the service of 20s a year.[3]

' Aline la Despenser ', had a grant from her husband Roger le Bigod,
earl of Norfolk of ' all the manors which fall and descend to him
and to her by the death of Philip Basset her father, from both her
father's inheritance and that of Helwise, her late mother. '
[charter dated Nov 1276xNov 1277, Morris p. 221[5], cites Morant,
Hist. Antiq. Essex II:269]

m. 1stly Hugh le Despenser,
2ndly Roger le Bigod, 5th Earl of Norfolk (as his first wife)

Spouse: Sir Hugh le Despenser
Birth: abt 1223
Death: 4 Aug 1265, Battle of Evesham[3]
Father: Sir Hugh le Despenser (-<1238)
Mother: [Conjectured] NN de Quincy
Marr: abt 1260[3]

Children: Eleanor (-1328), m. Sir Hugh de Courtenay
Sir Hugh (1260-1326)
Joan (-<1322), m. Sir Thomas de Furnival
Hawise, m. [conjectured] Ralph Basset,
Lord Basset (of Drayton)



1. Detlev Schewennicke, "Europäische Stammtafeln: Neue Folge,"
Frankfurt
am Main: Vittorio Klostermann, 1999 [4th series],
Band I.2 - Premysliden, Askanier, Herzoge von Lothringen, die
Hauser Hessen, Wurttemberg und Zahringen, First series by Wilhelm
Karl, Prinz zu Isenburg, continued second series by Frank, Baron
Freytag von Loringhoven.
3. G. E. Cokayne, "The Complete Peerage," 1910 - [microprint,
1982 (Alan Sutton) ], The Complete Peerage of England Scotland
Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom.
4. R. Allen Brown, ed., "Eye Priory Cartulary and Charters," Suffolk
Records Society, Suffolk Charters (vol. XII), courtesy Ancestry.com

http://www.ancestry.com
5. Marc Morris, "The Bigod Earls of Norfolk in the Thirteenth Century,"
Woodbridge: The Boydell Press, 2005.






Douglas Richardson wrote:
Dear Newsgroup ~

Checking the database at Leo van de Pas' website at
http://www.genealogics.org, I've noticed that the English Lovaine family isn't
connected back to their Continental origins.

<<<<<<<<<<< snip >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

John P. Ravilious

Re: The Origins of the Lovaine family

Legg inn av John P. Ravilious » 20 jan 2006 02:34:19

Thursday, 19 January, 2006


Dear Will,

The pedigree given is for the descent down to Hawise de
Lovaine and beyond, so that collateral lines were not dealt with.

The pedigree did note that Imaine of Loos was the 2nd wife
of Godfrey III: his first wife (also shown: "Other Spouses
Margaret of Limbourg" in the pedigree) was Margaret of Limbourg
(or Limburg). Their son and heir was Henry I, Duke of Brabant
and (in England) lord of the Honour of Eye (d. 1235), for whom
his half-brother Godfrey (de Lovaine, or Louvain) acted as
custodian, or seneschal, of Eye.

Sorry for any confusion on the matter.

Cheers,

John


==========================================

From: WJhonson@aol.com
Subject: Re: The Origins of the Lovaine family
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 14:32:55 EST


In a message dated 1/18/06 8:41:17 PM Pacific Standard Time,
therav3@aol.com
writes:

<< Children: Godfrey (-<1226)
William (->1224)

Other Spouses Margaret of Limbourg


1.1 Godfrey of Louvain
----------------------------------------
Death: bef 26 Apr 1226[3]

custodian of the castle of Eye in Suffolk, or
'seneschal of the honour of Eye' for his brother Henry of Brabant,
lord of same[3],[4]

in the entourage of his brother Duke Henry, attending the coronation
of King John of England, 27 May 1199[4] >>


Am I confused ?
If Godfrey was "in the entourage of his BROTHER" then shouldn't another
child
of Godfrey and Liutgarde be someone named Duke Henry ? But in your
listing
you only show Godfrey and William (see above).
Thanks
Will Johnson

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