Sources? Counts of Louvain

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Steve Barnhoorn

Sources? Counts of Louvain

Legg inn av Steve Barnhoorn » 18 jan 2006 19:10:29

Generationally, attempting to find chronicle and/or charter evidence
that links the following:

Lambert_II of Louvain Count of Louvain
Count of Brussels.
b. ABT 991
d. AFT 21 Sep 1062
Married Ode (Oda) de VERDUN

Son:
Henry_II of_Brabant Count of Lorraine and Louvain
Count of Lorraine and Brabant.
b. ABT 1021, of Brabant, Louvain, France
d. 1078-9
Married Adelaide of Orlamunda (1045-1086)

Grandson:
Godfrey_I of_Brabant "The Bearded" Count of Brabant
Count of Louvain, Duke of Lorraine.
b. ABT 1060, Brabant, Louvaine, France
d. 25 Jan 1139/40
Married Married second Ida de_Chiny and de_Namur
[Father of Queen Adeliza of_Louvain (1103-1151) m(1) Henry_I Beauclerc
King of England (1068-1135)]

Reviewed Genealogia ducum Brabantiae ampliata (MGH SS 25), but I see
references to the year 1270 and 1271 on page 391, which if I am reading
this correctly, would put this chronicle some 140 years after Count
Godfrey's reported death. Meaning, the information was compiled long
after the existence of these individuals.

What contemporaneous sources should be consulted to connect or link
these families, one generation after another?

Thanks in advance.

John P. Ravilious

Re: Sources? Counts of Louvain

Legg inn av John P. Ravilious » 19 jan 2006 05:38:41

Dear Steve,

I don't have access to the volumes at present, but if you could
consult Europaische Stammtafeln, I Band I.2 Tafel 236 there are
hopefully source citations there for the family of the Counts of
Louvain whose descent is as you give below.

If Peter Stewart is currently reading this, most likely you would
have a good answer for Steve as to other sources.

Cheers,

John



Steve Barnhoorn wrote:
Generationally, attempting to find chronicle and/or charter evidence
that links the following:

Lambert_II of Louvain Count of Louvain
Count of Brussels.
b. ABT 991
d. AFT 21 Sep 1062
Married Ode (Oda) de VERDUN

Son:
Henry_II of_Brabant Count of Lorraine and Louvain
Count of Lorraine and Brabant.
b. ABT 1021, of Brabant, Louvain, France
d. 1078-9
Married Adelaide of Orlamunda (1045-1086)

Grandson:
Godfrey_I of_Brabant "The Bearded" Count of Brabant
Count of Louvain, Duke of Lorraine.
b. ABT 1060, Brabant, Louvaine, France
d. 25 Jan 1139/40
Married Married second Ida de_Chiny and de_Namur
[Father of Queen Adeliza of_Louvain (1103-1151) m(1) Henry_I Beauclerc
King of England (1068-1135)]

Reviewed Genealogia ducum Brabantiae ampliata (MGH SS 25), but I see
references to the year 1270 and 1271 on page 391, which if I am reading
this correctly, would put this chronicle some 140 years after Count
Godfrey's reported death. Meaning, the information was compiled long
after the existence of these individuals.

What contemporaneous sources should be consulted to connect or link
these families, one generation after another?

Thanks in advance.

Leo van de Pas

Re: Sources? Counts of Louvain

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 19 jan 2006 08:03:40

Dear John,

I doubt that Peter Stewart is reading Gen-Med messages, I understand he has
given up on us.

The bland acceptance and encouragement of shoddy work is one reason.

I have the volume you refer to the sources is list is there, but not one of
the easiest.

Tafels 236 to 253 Carl Knetsch, Das Haus Brabant Band I, Darmstadt 1917; II
Darmstadt 1931
Tafels 236 to 238 Here an enormous list is given.To establish which
contemporary sources were the foundation, you would have to have this list
(quite a job to list, but I would be willing to do this for Steve) and then
you have to access those sources to see whether primary sources were
mentioned.

Best wishes
Leo van de Pas


----- Original Message -----
From: "John P. Ravilious" <therav3@aol.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 3:38 PM
Subject: Re: Sources? Counts of Louvain


Dear Steve,

I don't have access to the volumes at present, but if you could
consult Europaische Stammtafeln, I Band I.2 Tafel 236 there are
hopefully source citations there for the family of the Counts of
Louvain whose descent is as you give below.

If Peter Stewart is currently reading this, most likely you would
have a good answer for Steve as to other sources.

Cheers,

John



Steve Barnhoorn wrote:
Generationally, attempting to find chronicle and/or charter evidence
that links the following:

Lambert_II of Louvain Count of Louvain
Count of Brussels.
b. ABT 991
d. AFT 21 Sep 1062
Married Ode (Oda) de VERDUN

Son:
Henry_II of_Brabant Count of Lorraine and Louvain
Count of Lorraine and Brabant.
b. ABT 1021, of Brabant, Louvain, France
d. 1078-9
Married Adelaide of Orlamunda (1045-1086)

Grandson:
Godfrey_I of_Brabant "The Bearded" Count of Brabant
Count of Louvain, Duke of Lorraine.
b. ABT 1060, Brabant, Louvaine, France
d. 25 Jan 1139/40
Married Married second Ida de_Chiny and de_Namur
[Father of Queen Adeliza of_Louvain (1103-1151) m(1) Henry_I Beauclerc
King of England (1068-1135)]

Reviewed Genealogia ducum Brabantiae ampliata (MGH SS 25), but I see
references to the year 1270 and 1271 on page 391, which if I am reading
this correctly, would put this chronicle some 140 years after Count
Godfrey's reported death. Meaning, the information was compiled long
after the existence of these individuals.

What contemporaneous sources should be consulted to connect or link
these families, one generation after another?

Thanks in advance.


Steve Barnhoorn

Re: Sources? Counts of Louvain

Legg inn av Steve Barnhoorn » 21 jan 2006 17:30:25

Tafels 236 to 253 Carl Knetsch, Das Haus Brabant Band I, Darmstadt
1917; II
Darmstadt 1931
Tafels 236 to 238 Here an enormous list is given.To establish which
contemporary sources were the foundation, you would have to have this
list
(quite a job to list, but I would be willing to do this for Steve) and
then
you have to access those sources to see whether primary sources were
mentioned.


Leo: If it's not too much to ask, it would be great. Thanks, Steve

Leo van de Pas

Re: Sources? Counts of Louvain

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 24 jan 2006 01:48:32

Here we go (at last) this is only the first half, if Steve really thinks
this helps him, then I will do the other half.

Tafel 236-253
Carl Knetsch, Das Haus Brabant Band 1, Darmstadt 1917 ; Band II, Darmstadt
1931

Tafel 236-238
op.cit I, pp 11-42; 69 s; 417 ss; Joseph Halkin, Albero 1er eveque de Liege,
in; Bulletin de la societe d'art ety d'histoire du diocese de Liege VIII,
1894, pp 321-343;

J.Dhondt, Note critique sur lers comtes de Hainaut au dixieme siecle, in
Annales du Cercle archeologique de Mons tome 60, 1946-1947. Mons-Gembloux
1947, pp123 - 144;

F.Vennekens, La Seigneurie de Gaesbeek1935; P.Adam, Adela de Louvain, epouse
de Simon I duc de Lorraine, in : L'intermediere des genealogists XVI, 1961,
pp 61 ss;

W.Mohr, Richilde von Hennegau und Robert der Friese.

Thesen zu einer Neubewertung der Quellen, in : Revue belge de philologie et
d'histoire 58, 1980, pp 77 ss; 59, 1981 s, ann.126

Ulrich Nonn, Pagus und Comitatus in Niederlothringen, Bonn 1983, pp 95, 147
ss (-Bonner Historische Forschungen 49)

Rudiger E. Barth, Der Herzog in Lothringen im 10.Jahrhundrert, Sigmaringen
1990, pp 15-82

Landeshauptarchiv Koblenz Bestand 15, 1,. Nr.12

Halkin et Roland (vide Tafel 229) 1, p XXXIV

Edouard Poncelet, Actes des Princes-Eveques de Liege Hugues de Pierrepont
1200-1229, Brussel 1946, Nr. 43

K. Heeringa ed., Oorkondenboek van het Sticht Utrecht II, 's-Gravenhage
1940, no 1044

Edouard Poncelet, inventaire analytique du chartes de la collegiale de
St.Pierre a Liege, Brussel 1906, p 23

Edouard Poncelet, inventaire analytique du chartes de la collegiale de
St.Pierre a Liege 1,
Brussel, 1911 nr.19

Documents relatifs a l'abbaye de Heylissem, in Annalectus pour servir a
l'histoire ecclesiastique de la Belgique XXV, Lowen 1894, pp 257-338

Leopold Delisle, Recueil des actes de Henri II roi d'Angleterre et duc de
Normandie, introduction, Paris 1909, p.402

Arnold Fayen, Lettres de Jean XXII (1316-1334) tome I (1316-1324),
Rom-Brussel-Paris 1908, nr.586 (-Analecta Vaticano-Belgica Vol VII)


----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Barnhoorn" <sbarnhoorn@mail.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 3:30 AM
Subject: Re: Sources? Counts of Louvain


Tafels 236 to 253 Carl Knetsch, Das Haus Brabant Band I, Darmstadt
1917; II
Darmstadt 1931
Tafels 236 to 238 Here an enormous list is given.To establish which
contemporary sources were the foundation, you would have to have this
list
(quite a job to list, but I would be willing to do this for Steve) and
then
you have to access those sources to see whether primary sources were
mentioned.


Leo: If it's not too much to ask, it would be great. Thanks, Steve


John Brandon

Re: Sources? Counts of Louvain

Legg inn av John Brandon » 24 jan 2006 15:45:36

If Peter Stewart is currently reading this, most likely you would
have a good answer for Steve as to other sources.

Oh lawdy, not that again ...!

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