Chaworth to John, 4th Lord Scrope of Masham, is discussed. Also
discussed is a previous marriage for the 4th Lord Scrope that is not
covered in CP.
PA3[p. 254]: "He [4th Lord Scrope of Masham] was married previously to
Maud Greystoke, daughter of John Greystoke, Knt., 4th Lord Greystoke,
by Elizabeth, daughter and co-heiress of Robert Ferrers, Knt., 2nd Lord
Ferrers of Wem. They had no issue."
Apparently the sources Douglas used for this Scrope of Masham/Greystoke
marriage were N.H. Nicolas 'Controversy between Scrope and Grosvenor' 2
(1832), pp. 134-137: "(identifies 1st wife as "Elizabeth, dau. of
Ralph, Lord Greystock")"; and W. Flower 'Vis. of Yorkshire 1563-4'
(H.S.P. 16) (1881): 151: "(Greystoke pedigree: "Matilda [Greystoke]
nupta Domino Scrope de Upsall sans issu.")".
I have no access (unfortunately - I'd love to see it someday) to the
Nicolas 'Scrope and Grosvenor' book, but I did look at the 1563-4
Visitation of Yorkshire Greystoke pedigree, which does indeed give
John, 4th Lord Greystoke & Elizabeth Ferrers a daughter Matilda married
to Domino Scrope of Upsall, without issue.
Going further back, to the Visitation of the North 1480-1500, published
by the Surtees Society, in the Greystoke pedigree, as daughter of John
4th Lord & Elizabeth Ferrers, is "Matildis nupta domino Scrop de
Vpshall et obijt sine prole". This is also the case in the Neville
pedigree, which takes it one step further, giving "Elizabeth nupta
baroni de Graystok" a daughter "Matildis nupta Iohanni domino Scrope de
Vpshall".
But this creates chronological difficulties. Elizabeth Ferrers, lady
of Wem, and John, 4th Lord Greystoke, were married in October 1407, so
the soonest a child could be born to them is 1408. Here are dates of
marriage for some of their offspring:
A) Ralph, 5th Lord Greystoke, married 1436 (Papal dispensation 1 July),
Elizabeth Fitzhugh
B) Joan Greystoke, married before 1424, Sir John Darcy, born 13 Nov.
1406, and had her eldest son about 1424.
C) Anne Greystoke, married 1433 (dispensation 18 Feb.), Sir Ralph
Bigod, born about 1410.
D) Elizabeth Greystoke, married before 1428, Roger Thornton
E) Eleanor Greystoke, married Sir Ralph Eure. The dates of their
marriage and of his birth are not known, but his parents had license to
marry in Jan. 1411, so he was born after that.
From the above, it would be expected that Maud Greystoke, if daughter
of John, 4th Lord Greystoke, married in the 1420s or 1430s. But John,
4th Lord Scrope of Masham, was married to his second wife Elizabeth
Chaworth before 24 August 1418. So any first wife had to have been
dead by then.
Even if Maud Greystoke was the eldest child of John, 4th Lord
Greystoke, she could not have been born before 1408, making her age 10
at the most when she died. This would make sense if her husband was
also a child, but John, 4th Lord Scrope of Masham was born about 1388,
so at least 20 years Maud's senior if she was daughter of John
Greystoke. We don't have a birthdate for Elizabeth Chaworth, but we
know her parents Thomas Chaworth and Nicola Braybrooke were married in
1394.
There is nothing in the evidence, though, that says Maud Greystoke
married the 4th Lord Scrope of Masham, other than the given name of
'Johanni' for her husband in the Neville pedigree of the 1480-1500
Visitation of the North.
What is more likely is that if John, 4th Lord Greystoke & Elizabeth
Ferrers had a daughter named Maud who married a John Scrope of Masham,
it was not John, 4th Lord Scrope of Masham, but his eldest surviving
son John Scrope (d. 1452), who was her husband. It's documented in his
will that he was married to Margaret Dacre, daughter of Thomas, 6th
Lord Dacre and Philippa Nevill. But he was born in the 1420s (perhaps
earlier), so there is time for him to have made a marriage prior to the
Dacre one. He died without issue.
The Scropes of Masham and the Greystoke families remained closely
allied in the 15th century. In May 1453, a mere 8 months after the
death of John Scrope of Masham, eldest son of the 4th Lord, the
23-year-old next brother and heir Thomas (later 5th Lord Scrope of
Masham) married Elizabeth Greystoke, daughter of Ralph, 5th Lord
Greystoke and Elizabeth Fitzhugh, and thus a niece of Maud Greystoke.
Curiously, in the Greystoke pedigree of the 1480-1500 Visitation of the
North, Elizabeth Greystoke's husband is called "Iohannes dominus Scrop
de Vpshall".
And what of Nicolas, in his 'Scrope and Grosvenor' book, identifying a
first wife for John, 4th Lord Scrope of Masham, as "Elizabeth, daughter
of Ralph, Lord Greystock"? Without seeing the book, I don't know what
is his evidence for this. Ralph, 3rd Lord Greystoke (d. 1418) and his
wife Katherine Clifford (d. 1413 - she is called "Isabella" in the
Greystoke Visitation pedigrees of 1480-1500 & 1563/4) have no daughter
married to a Scrope of Upsall in the pedigrees, nor a daughter named
Elizabeth. The only two daughters given for them are Maud, married to
"domino de Welles" and Joan, married to "Willelmo Bowys militi".
This is another example of how information in a Visitation pedigree
needs to be double checked with available contemporary documentation
and known chronology.
Cheers, --------Brad