Knighthood

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charlotte smith

Knighthood

Legg inn av charlotte smith » 17 jan 2006 17:59:01

Nigel Saul gives several comments on knighthood in his book "Scenes from Provincial Life-Knightly families in Susses 1280-1400" He says "William Echyngham was summond to parliament in 1311 as h is income from land more than justified it. "so too did his records as a miles strenuus.. Robert Echyngham was a careeist knight and worked for the De spenser family . James Echyngham had all the land and money to be a knight but fought shy of assuming knighthood. He obtained a respite for 3 years but by 1346 he had to go to France with the King and he decided remaining an esquire merely condemmed him to talking half the rate of pay he would get as a knight so he accepted knighthood. Evidently if you had the land and money you were expected to take Knighthood. Of course the King benefitied from this.
It cost at least 100 pounds to buy all the needed things to become a knight, so money was necessary.
The knights moved up the social ladder by marrying into landed families and using the dowery brought by the wife to increase their standings .

although prejudice tended to limit intermarriage between gentlewomen and merchants, it did little to check marriage of gentlemen with merchants' daughters and widows, the gentlemen were too eager to pocket the fat dowries their wives would bring.

A good read to explain all the knighthood is "Knights and Esquires; The gloucestershire Gentry in the 14th Century" Nigel Saul Oxford Press 1981 It expalins it all.


charlotte c smith

Douglas Richardson

Re: Knighthood

Legg inn av Douglas Richardson » 17 jan 2006 18:57:08

Dear Charlotte ~

Thank you for the good post. Very helpful information.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

Website: http://www.royalancestry.net

charlotte smith wrote:
Nigel Saul gives several comments on knighthood in his book "Scenes from Provincial Life-Knightly families in Susses 1280-1400" He says "William Echyngham was summond to parliament in 1311 as h is income from land more than justified it. "so too did his records as a miles strenuus.. Robert Echyngham was a careeist knight and worked for the De spenser family . James Echyngham had all the land and money to be a knight but fought shy of assuming knighthood. He obtained a respite for 3 years but by 1346 he had to go to France with the King and he decided remaining an esquire merely condemmed him to talking half the rate of pay he would get as a knight so he accepted knighthood. Evidently if you had the land and money you were expected to take Knighthood. Of course the King benefitied from this.
It cost at least 100 pounds to buy all the needed things to become a knight, so money was necessary.
The knights moved up the social ladder by marrying into landed families and using the dowery brought by the wife to increase their standings .

although prejudice tended to limit intermarriage between gentlewomen and merchants, it did little to check marriage of gentlemen with merchants' daughters and widows, the gentlemen were too eager to pocket the fat dowries their wives would bring.

A good read to explain all the knighthood is "Knights and Esquires; The gloucestershire Gentry in the 14th Century" Nigel Saul Oxford Press 1981 It expalins it all.


charlotte c smith

Leo van de Pas

Re: Knighthood

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 18 jan 2006 13:23:01

----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas Richardson" <royalancestry@msn.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 4:57 AM
Subject: Re: Knighthood
Dear Charlotte ~

Thank you for the good post. Very helpful information.

=====Helpful? I am not too sure. See below.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

Website: http://www.royalancestry.net

charlotte smith wrote:
Nigel Saul gives several comments on knighthood in his book "Scenes from
Provincial Life-Knightly families in Susses 1280-1400" He says "William
Echyngham was summond to parliament in 1311 as h is income from land
more than justified it.
======He was justified to be summoned to come to Parliament? Do you know

what that means?

That he became _a Baron_ not a knight, and as a Baron he is in CP Volume V
page 4.

"so too did his records as a miles strenuus.. Robert Echyngham was a
careeist knight and worked for the De spenser family .
=====Meaning?


Richardson wants to be taken serious, he should be serious about the
statements he makes. He cannot make statements and when challenged ignore
them. He has placed himself on this pedestal as a professional genealogist,.
someone trained in genealogy and history.

He maintains that there was "a knightly class", it should be easy for him to
prove this.
If it is _required_ to have three to five manors before being allowed to
become a knight, there has to be paperwork to confirm the eligibility of a
given person.

Where are those records? And what are they called? Has ever a knight lost
his knighthood because he lost his manors?

On the battlefield when someone was going to be knighted did they send
someone home to check whether he was _eligible_?

Is he implying that people _not_ belonging to the knightly class cannot
become knights?
What about the sons of kings?

It would have been so simple for Richardson to have said "to be a knight
they would _need_ the income from three to five manors, something that could
be provided after someone had been knighted." But Richardson digs in his
heels, he knows better.

What a pity.
Leo van de Pas


James Echyngham had all the land and money to be a knight but fought shy of
assuming knighthood. He obtained a respite for 3 years but by 1346 he had
to go to France with the King and he decided remaining an esquire merely
condemmed him to talking half the rate of pay he would get as a knight so he
accepted knighthood. Evidently if you had the land and money you were
expected to take Knighthood. Of course the King benefitied from this.
It cost at least 100 pounds to buy all the needed things to become a
knight, so money was necessary.
The knights moved up the social ladder by marrying into landed families
and using the dowery brought by the wife to increase their standings .

although prejudice tended to limit intermarriage between gentlewomen
and merchants, it did little to check marriage of gentlemen with
merchants' daughters and widows, the gentlemen were too eager to pocket
the fat dowries their wives would bring.

A good read to explain all the knighthood is "Knights and Esquires; The
gloucestershire Gentry in the 14th Century" Nigel Saul Oxford Press 1981
It expalins it all.


charlotte c smith


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