Arms of the Wentworth Family

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Arms of the Wentworth Family

Legg inn av Gjest » 10 jan 2006 22:34:30

I was wondering if anyone one can tell me about some quarterings I
found in google print. The book was Excerpta Historica by Samuel
Bentley published in 1833. On page 316 under Sir Richard Wentworth of
Nettlestead he gives this description of his standard as follows.
Syr Richard Wentworthe of Netyllstede in Suff
Red, A a griffin statant Argent fore legs Or, collered per pale Or and
Argent, with three covered cups, with ribbons attached to the handles
of the last, and four annulents per pale, as the collar. B and C, in
each the cup between two annulets as before. motto- Penses a bien
Arms- Quarterly of six pieces; 1. Sable, on a chevron between three
leopards faces Or, a crescent Gules for differance; 2. Quarterly,
Argent and Gules, in the second a fret Or, over all a bendlet Sable,
Charged with three mullets of the first; 3. Argent, a saltire
engrailed Gules; 4. Argent, a fess between two bars gemelles Gules;
5.Or, three bars Azure, a canton Ermine; 6. Azure, three fishes
hauriant two in chief and one in base Argent, between as many cross
crosslets fitche Or.
The first five quarterings include the arms of the families of
Wentworth, Despenser, Tibetot, Badlesmere, and Goushill, I believe the
sixth quartering is the arms of Lucy family. I am unable to explain how
the Wentworth family might have been connected to the Lucy family. Can
anyone help me?

Best Wishes
Mike Welch

Tim Powys-Lybbe

Re: Arms of the Wentworth Family

Legg inn av Tim Powys-Lybbe » 11 jan 2006 00:17:10

In message of 10 Jan, mwelch8442@yahoo.com wrote:

I was wondering if anyone one can tell me about some quarterings I
found in google print. The book was Excerpta Historica by Samuel
Bentley published in 1833. On page 316 under Sir Richard Wentworth of
Nettlestead he gives this description of his standard as follows.
Syr Richard Wentworthe of Netyllstede in Suff
Red, A a griffin statant Argent fore legs Or, collered per pale Or and
Argent, with three covered cups, with ribbons attached to the handles
of the last, and four annulents per pale, as the collar. B and C, in
each the cup between two annulets as before. motto- Penses a bien
Arms- Quarterly of six pieces; 1. Sable, on a chevron between three
leopards faces Or, a crescent Gules for differance; 2. Quarterly,
Argent and Gules, in the second a fret Or, over all a bendlet Sable,
Charged with three mullets of the first; 3. Argent, a saltire
engrailed Gules; 4. Argent, a fess between two bars gemelles Gules;
5.Or, three bars Azure, a canton Ermine; 6. Azure, three fishes
hauriant two in chief and one in base Argent, between as many cross
crosslets fitche Or.
The first five quarterings include the arms of the families of
Wentworth, Despenser, Tibetot, Badlesmere, and Goushill, I believe the
sixth quartering is the arms of Lucy family. I am unable to explain how
the Wentworth family might have been connected to the Lucy family. Can
anyone help me?

Not really! But the Lucy family almost invariably has the plain canting
arms of "Gules three lucies hauriant", that is side by side and
vertically. I cannot see anything like this blazon in Burke's Armory
for any Lucy, nor in Fairburn's Ordinary of Arms.

But there is a chance that the Badlesmeres married a Clare heiress,
Margaret, who was granddaughter of Richard Clare who married a _Lacy_
heiress, though the Lacy arms don't look like that either.

Personally I have found too many mistakes in official and old arms to
give them much credence. There is no substitute for doing the genealogy
from documentary evidence and then asking what the quarterings should be:
it is more likely to be right.

--
Tim Powys-Lybbe                                          tim@powys.org
             For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org

Gjest

Re: Arms of the Wentworth Family

Legg inn av Gjest » 11 jan 2006 07:25:04

Thank You Tim for your help on this. Very much appericated.

Mike Welch
Tim Powys-Lybbe wrote:
In message of 10 Jan, mwelch8442@yahoo.com wrote:

I was wondering if anyone one can tell me about some quarterings I
found in google print. The book was Excerpta Historica by Samuel
Bentley published in 1833. On page 316 under Sir Richard Wentworth of
Nettlestead he gives this description of his standard as follows.
Syr Richard Wentworthe of Netyllstede in Suff
Red, A a griffin statant Argent fore legs Or, collered per pale Or and
Argent, with three covered cups, with ribbons attached to the handles
of the last, and four annulents per pale, as the collar. B and C, in
each the cup between two annulets as before. motto- Penses a bien
Arms- Quarterly of six pieces; 1. Sable, on a chevron between three
leopards faces Or, a crescent Gules for differance; 2. Quarterly,
Argent and Gules, in the second a fret Or, over all a bendlet Sable,
Charged with three mullets of the first; 3. Argent, a saltire
engrailed Gules; 4. Argent, a fess between two bars gemelles Gules;
5.Or, three bars Azure, a canton Ermine; 6. Azure, three fishes
hauriant two in chief and one in base Argent, between as many cross
crosslets fitche Or.
The first five quarterings include the arms of the families of
Wentworth, Despenser, Tibetot, Badlesmere, and Goushill, I believe the
sixth quartering is the arms of Lucy family. I am unable to explain how
the Wentworth family might have been connected to the Lucy family. Can
anyone help me?

Not really! But the Lucy family almost invariably has the plain canting
arms of "Gules three lucies hauriant", that is side by side and
vertically. I cannot see anything like this blazon in Burke's Armory
for any Lucy, nor in Fairburn's Ordinary of Arms.

But there is a chance that the Badlesmeres married a Clare heiress,
Margaret, who was granddaughter of Richard Clare who married a _Lacy_
heiress, though the Lacy arms don't look like that either.

Personally I have found too many mistakes in official and old arms to
give them much credence. There is no substitute for doing the genealogy
from documentary evidence and then asking what the quarterings should be:
it is more likely to be right.

--
Tim Powys-Lybbe tim@powys.org
For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org

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