Elizabeth PLANTAGENET

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Le Bateman

Elizabeth PLANTAGENET

Legg inn av Le Bateman » 04 jan 2006 21:16:01

In regard to Henry VII gaining the Crown by right of Conquest. Would he be able to claim right to the throne through his wife, the daughter of Edward IV?

Leo van de Pas

Re: Elizabeth PLANTAGENET

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 04 jan 2006 21:22:01

Dear Le,
It is known that he waited a year before marrying Elizabeth, to make the
point HE was the king, never mind whatever rights his wife may have had. Had
he accepted the crown in right of his wife, she would have been Queen
(regnant) Elizabeth I, but she wasn't, she was Queen Consort..

His marriage was important as Elizabeth was the senior York heir, debateably
he was the senior Lancaster heir and so he combined the two rights in him
and his wife and their children.
With best wishes
Leo

----- Original Message -----
From: "Le Bateman" <LeBateman@att.net>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 7:05 AM
Subject: Elizabeth PLANTAGENET


In regard to Henry VII gaining the Crown by right of Conquest. Would he be
able to claim right to the throne through his wife, the daughter of
Edward IV?


Le

Re: Elizabeth PLANTAGENET

Legg inn av Le » 04 jan 2006 23:37:35

Well Leo you are right, had I read further in Faris's First Edition I
would have seen they married at Westminister 18 Jan 1486. Thank you for
pointing it out.

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Gjest

Re: Elizabeth PLANTAGENET

Legg inn av Gjest » 06 jan 2006 01:42:50

Not a year. Just five months.
But yes, by that time he had been crowned King, and though his claim to
heirship was, to say the least, debatable, he was the last man standing
(aside from the de la Pole boys and the half-wit earl of Warwick).
And everyone wanted the wars to end. Bad for business.

What was the closest relationship between Henry and Elizabeth?
(Did they require a papal permission?)
Henry's mother's father's father was the brother of Elizabeth's
father's mother's mother.
Is that the closest?

Jean Coeur de Lapin

Le

Re: Elizabeth PLANTAGENET

Legg inn av Le » 06 jan 2006 22:37:29

I made a mistake on page 108 of PA Henry VII's step-father Henry
Stafford placed the crown on his head. It never mentioned that he was a
offically crowned by the clergy.

Jacob LeRoy Bateman III
MOntgomery, Alabama

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John P. Ravilious

Re: Elizabeth PLANTAGENET

Legg inn av John P. Ravilious » 06 jan 2006 23:00:04

Dear Jean,

comments interspersed.


atsarisborn@hotmail.com wrote:
Not a year. Just five months.
But yes, by that time he had been crowned King, and though his claim to
heirship was, to say the least, debatable, he was the last man standing
(aside from the de la Pole boys and the half-wit earl of Warwick).
And everyone wanted the wars to end. Bad for business.

What was the closest relationship between Henry and Elizabeth?
(Did they require a papal permission?)
Henry's mother's father's father was the brother of Elizabeth's
father's mother's mother.
Is that the closest?

That was the closest relationship: 4th degree of consanguinity
(i.e. 3rd cousins), by common descent from John 'of Gaunt', Duke of
Lancaster. The dispensation was evidently granted after the marriage
(March 1486 as I recall).


Jean Coeur de Lapin


Cheers,

John

John P. Ravilious

Re: Elizabeth PLANTAGENET

Legg inn av John P. Ravilious » 06 jan 2006 23:12:39

Dear Leo,

I agree, Elizabeth had the senior Yorkist claim (assuming her
brothers were in fact dead; if they were not in 1485, they were surely
so soon thereafter).

Henry Tudor is another matter. He was the senior Lancastrian
claimant with any military backing; there were better claimants in
terms of primogeniture, and (I think) legitimacy, under the terms of
the Act of Legitimation (1397):

1. The descendants of Elizabeth, dau. of John of Gaunt, who m.
John Holand, duke of Exeter would come first; followed by

2. The senior descendant of Constance, dau. of John of Gaunt
(by his 2nd marriage) and her husband Henry [Enrique] III of
Castile;

~ Interestingly, that would have been Isabella, Queen of
Castile (of Ferdinand and Isabella fame).

In Henry's case, the Battle of Bosworth gave him the winning hand
in the game of Plantagenet Poker: a royal victory beats a full house.

Cheers,

John



"Leo van de Pas" wrote:
Dear Le,
It is known that he waited a year before marrying Elizabeth, to make the
point HE was the king, never mind whatever rights his wife may have had. Had
he accepted the crown in right of his wife, she would have been Queen
(regnant) Elizabeth I, but she wasn't, she was Queen Consort..

His marriage was important as Elizabeth was the senior York heir, debateably
he was the senior Lancaster heir and so he combined the two rights in him
and his wife and their children.
With best wishes
Leo

----- Original Message -----
From: "Le Bateman" <LeBateman@att.net
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 7:05 AM
Subject: Elizabeth PLANTAGENET


In regard to Henry VII gaining the Crown by right of Conquest. Would he be
able to claim right to the throne through his wife, the daughter of
Edward IV?


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