Michael Wentworth of Little Harbor, New Hampshire

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Nathaniel Taylor

Re: Michael Wentworth of Little Harbor, New Hampshire

Legg inn av Nathaniel Taylor » 22 des 2005 03:49:12

In article <001001c6069e$623a1190$c6948d47@labs.agilent.com>,
jthiggins@sbcglobal.net ("John Higgins") wrote:

I guess it would depend on whether Col. Michael Wentworth meets GBR's
criteria for inclusion: immigrants who "were themselves notable or left
descendants notable in American history" (from the title page of RD600). He
certainly doesn't qualify on the 2nd point, since his issue died out with
his daughter.

A related , and more interesting, addition to GBR's work would be Michael's
wife's first husband Benning Wentworth, a colonial governor of New
Hampshire. He apparently can be traced back to "Elder" William Wentworth
who does appear in GBR's work. [I wonder what the status is of Paul Reed's
projected writings on the Wentworth, which GBR indicates as
forthcoming....or did I miss its publication?]

The particular royal line for Wentworth that appears in RD600 is wrong;
it contains a chronological impossibility and is based on the alleged
Fitzwilliam - Sothill marriage, which crops up as a perennial problem
here (Joan Fitzwilliam, if she is a Fitzwilliam, cannot be daughter of
the parents given to her there). Gary and I went over some other, more
valid royal lines for Wentworth, one of which will probably appear in
Gary's corrigenda to be included with the next printing of RD600. Based
on work Paul began in the 1990s Wentworth has a couple of those
ubiquitous Yorkshire descents from William the Lion and at least one
from Henry II. Paul's work has not been published, though.

The irony is that Wentworth had a different, and also bogus, line in
RD500.

In addition to Benning Wentworth I think William Wentworth has many
'notable' descendants of the type Gary likes to trace.

Nat Taylor

a genealogist's sketchbook:
http://home.earthlink.net/~nathanieltaylor/leaves/

my children's 17th-century American immigrant ancestors:
http://home.earthlink.net/~nathanieltay ... rantsa.htm

John Higgins

Re: Michael Wentworth of Little Harbor, New Hampshire

Legg inn av John Higgins » 22 des 2005 04:23:18

I guess it would depend on whether Col. Michael Wentworth meets GBR's
criteria for inclusion: immigrants who "were themselves notable or left
descendants notable in American history" (from the title page of RD600). He
certainly doesn't qualify on the 2nd point, since his issue died out with
his daughter.

A related , and more interesting, addition to GBR's work would be Michael's
wife's first husband Benning Wentworth, a colonial governor of New
Hampshire. He apparently can be traced back to "Elder" William Wentworth
who does appear in GBR's work. [I wonder what the status is of Paul Reed's
projected writings on the Wentworth, which GBR indicates as
forthcoming....or did I miss its publication?]

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Brandon" <starbuck95@hotmail.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 11:51 AM
Subject: Michael Wentworth of Little Harbor, New Hampshire


Wouldn't this be somebody new for Gary's book?


http://books.google.com/books?ie=UTF-8& ... ngford+sal

ford&prev=http://books.google.com/books%3Fq%3Dlangford%2Bsalford&lpg=PA215&p
g=PA259

Leo van de Pas

Re: Michael Wentworth of Little Harbor, New Hampshire

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 24 des 2005 01:57:01

Nathaniel Taylor said :

The particular royal line for Wentworth that appears in RD600 is wrong;
it contains a chronological impossibility and is based on the alleged
Fitzwilliam - Sothill marriage, which crops up as a perennial problem
here (Joan Fitzwilliam, if she is a Fitzwilliam, cannot be daughter of
the parents given to her there). Gary and I went over some other, more
valid royal lines for Wentworth, one of which will probably appear in
Gary's corrigenda to be included with the next printing of RD600. Based
on work Paul began in the 1990s Wentworth has a couple of those
ubiquitous Yorkshire descents from William the Lion and at least one
from Henry II. Paul's work has not been published, though.

I feel thoroughly confused, perhaps I am looking on the wrong page?


Page 399
8.Maud de Cromwell = Sir William FitzWilliam
9.Joan FitzWilliam = Sir Henry Sotehill

Nat tells that this link is wrong, but MichaelAnne Guido in a later message
tells that "Joan appears to be the daughter of Sir William FitzWilliam by
Maud de Cromwell so GBR is one generation off in his lineage" Did
MichaelAnne look at a different page of GBR's book?. Why is GBR off by one
generation?

The subject of this line is William Wentworth who married (1) NN (2)
Elizabedth Knight.
do I correctly read Nathaniel's remark that this William descends from
William the Lion and Henry II (of England)? My knowledge about the ancestors
of this William is pretty poor, and at the moment I have no link to William
the Lion or Henry II. I do have a link to Henry I of England (through Robert
de Caen) , Henri I of France, Olof III of Sweden, Brian Boru of Ireland,
Jaroslav I of Kiev, Emperor Heinrich the Fowler, Lady Godiva, Charlemagne,
Alfred the Great and many others.

Then I spotted another difference of opinion.
GBR page 399
14 Thomas Wentworth = Jane Mirfield
15 Oliver Wentworth = Jane
16 William Wentworth = Anne
17 Christopher Wentworth = Catherine Marbury
18 William Wentworth = Susanna Carter
19. William the immigrant who married (1) NN (2) Elizabeth Knight

From other sources I have the follow
11 Joan FitzWilliam = Sir Henry Sothll = they are generation 9 in GBR's list
12 Sir Gerard Sothill = Muriel Salvin
13Sir Gerard Sothill = NN Percehay
14 Richard Sothill = agnes
15 Isabel Sothill (not Jane) = Oliver Wentworth (no parents for him)
16 William Wentworth died 1574 = Ellen Gilby (not Anne)
17 Christopher Wentworth 1556-1633 = Catherine Marbury
18 William Wentworth bapt 1584 = Sisannah Carter
19 William the immigrant 1615-1696 married (1) Elizabeth Kenney (2)
Elizabeth Knight


9.(or 11) Joan FitzWilliam is an interesting link, and I hope her correct
parentage can be established as Gerald Paget shows her to be an ancestor of
Prince Charles, but he mentions her father only as William FitzWilliam of
Spotborough.

In my system I have Joan FitzWilliam also as ancestor of Nathaniel Taylor,
John Ravilious, Brom Nichol Jr. Lady Diana Spencer, Sarah Ferguson, Camilla
Cornwall, and several Gateway Ancestors William Farrar, Afra Harleston, John
Harleston, Elizabeth Harleston, Robert Peyton, Christopher Lawson and
Richard Saltonstall.

Can anyone clear up these discrepancies?
With many thanks
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia

Nathaniel Taylor

Re: Michael Wentworth of Little Harbor, New Hampshire

Legg inn av Nathaniel Taylor » 24 des 2005 04:22:37

In article <012801c6081d$d9131ca0$0300a8c0@Toshiba>,
leovdpas@netspeed.com.au ("Leo van de Pas") wrote:

Nathaniel Taylor said :

The particular royal line for Wentworth that appears in RD600 is wrong;
it contains a chronological impossibility and is based on the alleged
Fitzwilliam - Sothill marriage, which crops up as a perennial problem
here (Joan Fitzwilliam, if she is a Fitzwilliam, cannot be daughter of
the parents given to her there). Gary and I went over some other, more
valid royal lines for Wentworth, one of which will probably appear in
Gary's corrigenda to be included with the next printing of RD600. Based
on work Paul began in the 1990s Wentworth has a couple of those
ubiquitous Yorkshire descents from William the Lion and at least one
from Henry II. Paul's work has not been published, though.

I feel thoroughly confused, perhaps I am looking on the wrong page?

Page 399
8.Maud de Cromwell = Sir William FitzWilliam
9.Joan FitzWilliam = Sir Henry Sotehill

Nat tells that this link is wrong, but MichaelAnne Guido in a later message
tells that "Joan appears to be the daughter of Sir William FitzWilliam by
Maud de Cromwell so GBR is one generation off in his lineage" Did
MichaelAnne look at a different page of GBR's book?. Why is GBR off by one
generation?

The subject of this line is William Wentworth who married (1) NN (2)
Elizabedth Knight.
do I correctly read Nathaniel's remark that this William descends from
William the Lion and Henry II (of England)? My knowledge about the ancestors
of this William is pretty poor, and at the moment I have no link to William
the Lion or Henry II. I do have a link to Henry I of England (through Robert
de Caen) , Henri I of France, Olof III of Sweden, Brian Boru of Ireland,
Jaroslav I of Kiev, Emperor Heinrich the Fowler, Lady Godiva, Charlemagne,
Alfred the Great and many others.

<...>

9.(or 11) Joan FitzWilliam is an interesting link, and I hope her correct
parentage can be established as Gerald Paget shows her to be an ancestor of
Prince Charles, but he mentions her father only as William FitzWilliam of
Spotborough.

Leo,

John made a couple of lengthy and very helpful Sothill posts back in
2002, which help navigate the confused Sothill pedigree--which still
needs a definitive rehash. But especially John's message of 9 Nov 2002
shows while there was a Joan, daughter of Sir William FitzWilliam who
married a Henry Sothill--at the end of the 14th or turn of the 15th
century--, there was an earlier Henry, with wife Joan (perhaps three
generations prior) who are conflated with them in some of the
traditional pedigrees. Paget's line may rightly connect to the later,
true Fitzwilliam marriage, but I am not sure. William Wentworth, about
whom I was writing above, descends from the earlier but not later Henry
& Joan, so has no Fitzwilliam-Cromwell descent as far as I know.


Nat Taylor

a genealogist's sketchbook:
http://home.earthlink.net/~nathanieltaylor/leaves/

my children's 17th-century American immigrant ancestors:
http://home.earthlink.net/~nathanieltay ... rantsa.htm

Nathaniel Taylor

Re: Michael Wentworth of Little Harbor, New Hampshire

Legg inn av Nathaniel Taylor » 24 des 2005 04:24:10

In article <012801c6081d$d9131ca0$0300a8c0@Toshiba>,
leovdpas@netspeed.com.au ("Leo van de Pas") wrote:

Nathaniel Taylor said :

The particular royal line for Wentworth that appears in RD600 is wrong;
it contains a chronological impossibility and is based on the alleged
Fitzwilliam - Sothill marriage, which crops up as a perennial problem
here (Joan Fitzwilliam, if she is a Fitzwilliam, cannot be daughter of
the parents given to her there). Gary and I went over some other, more
valid royal lines for Wentworth, one of which will probably appear in
Gary's corrigenda to be included with the next printing of RD600. Based
on work Paul began in the 1990s Wentworth has a couple of those
ubiquitous Yorkshire descents from William the Lion and at least one
from Henry II. Paul's work has not been published, though.

I feel thoroughly confused, perhaps I am looking on the wrong page?

Page 399
8.Maud de Cromwell = Sir William FitzWilliam
9.Joan FitzWilliam = Sir Henry Sotehill

Nat tells that this link is wrong, but MichaelAnne Guido in a later message
tells that "Joan appears to be the daughter of Sir William FitzWilliam by
Maud de Cromwell so GBR is one generation off in his lineage" Did
MichaelAnne look at a different page of GBR's book?. Why is GBR off by one
generation?

The subject of this line is William Wentworth who married (1) NN (2)
Elizabedth Knight.
do I correctly read Nathaniel's remark that this William descends from
William the Lion and Henry II (of England)? My knowledge about the ancestors
of this William is pretty poor, and at the moment I have no link to William
the Lion or Henry II. I do have a link to Henry I of England (through Robert
de Caen) , Henri I of France, Olof III of Sweden, Brian Boru of Ireland,
Jaroslav I of Kiev, Emperor Heinrich the Fowler, Lady Godiva, Charlemagne,
Alfred the Great and many others.

<...>

9.(or 11) Joan FitzWilliam is an interesting link, and I hope her correct
parentage can be established as Gerald Paget shows her to be an ancestor of
Prince Charles, but he mentions her father only as William FitzWilliam of
Spotborough.

Leo,

John made a couple of lengthy and very helpful Sothill posts back in
2002, which help navigate the confused Sothill pedigree--which still
needs a definitive rehash. But especially John's message of 9 Nov 2002
shows while there was a Joan, daughter of Sir William FitzWilliam who
married a Henry Sothill--at the end of the 14th or turn of the 15th
century--, there was an earlier Henry, with wife Joan (perhaps three
generations prior) who are conflated with them in some of the
traditional pedigrees. Paget's line may rightly connect to the later,
true Fitzwilliam marriage, but I am not sure. William Wentworth, about
whom I was writing above, descends from the earlier but not later Henry
& Joan, so has no Fitzwilliam-Cromwell descent as far as I know.


Nat Taylor

a genealogist's sketchbook:
http://home.earthlink.net/~nathanieltaylor/leaves/

my children's 17th-century American immigrant ancestors:
http://home.earthlink.net/~nathanieltay ... rantsa.htm

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