RIchardson is pestering me as a distraction from his own fallacies regarding the person he absurdly insists on calling "Count Roger of Poitou".
Alphonse was invested at Poitiers in July 1241 as count of Auvergne, Poitou, La Marche, etc. The lesser titles includes "count of Saintonge" or "count of Saintes" - there was no strict differentiation between these in the traditional Latin title, any more than there was between "Poitiers" and "Poitou".
However, medieval people were able to observe consistency as well as modern ones, and better than Richardson. When Alphonse became also "count of Toulouse" it made sense to give both his major titles as the names of cities, "count of Toulouse and Poitiers" rather than as the surrounding territories, "count of the Toulousain and Poitou".
To pretend that Richardson was "going through" the administrative correspondence of Alphonse, that is written in Latin, is a bad joke. Someone who talks about contemporary sources for Roger the Poitevin and yet thinks the Latin for his name is "Rogero" obviously can't make his way through a single sentence of Latin. The name is "Rogerius".
Fw: Roger le Poitevin
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Douglas Richardson
Re: Fw: Roger le Poitevin
Dear Leo:
You are wrong again. The two volume work, "Correspondance
administrative d'Alfonse de Poitiers," by Molinier, published in
1894-1900, is part in Latin and part in French. So far, all the
instances of Alphonse's title in the French documents I have seen are
"Comte de Poitiers," not "Comte de Poitou" as you have it.
I don't know if it's time you admitted your error on Alphonse's title,
but foot dragging, name calling, and making wild allegations won't help
you. He was either "Comte de Poitiers" or "Comte de Poitou." Which
is it, Leo?
If you feel "Comte de Poitou" is the correct title, simply cite some
original documents which show this. And, please provide your sources.
Thank you!
For your ease of access, the links to Molinier's work are given below:
Volume 1:
http://visualiseur.bnf.fr/CadresFenetre ... on&Y=Image
Volume 2:
http://visualiseur.bnf.fr/CadresFenetre ... on&Y=Image
Let us know what you find. Good luck in your sleuthing.
DR
"Leo van de Pas" wrote:
You are wrong again. The two volume work, "Correspondance
administrative d'Alfonse de Poitiers," by Molinier, published in
1894-1900, is part in Latin and part in French. So far, all the
instances of Alphonse's title in the French documents I have seen are
"Comte de Poitiers," not "Comte de Poitou" as you have it.
I don't know if it's time you admitted your error on Alphonse's title,
but foot dragging, name calling, and making wild allegations won't help
you. He was either "Comte de Poitiers" or "Comte de Poitou." Which
is it, Leo?
If you feel "Comte de Poitou" is the correct title, simply cite some
original documents which show this. And, please provide your sources.
Thank you!
For your ease of access, the links to Molinier's work are given below:
Volume 1:
http://visualiseur.bnf.fr/CadresFenetre ... on&Y=Image
Volume 2:
http://visualiseur.bnf.fr/CadresFenetre ... on&Y=Image
Let us know what you find. Good luck in your sleuthing.
DR
"Leo van de Pas" wrote:
RIchardson is pestering me as a distraction from his own fallacies regarding the person he absurdly insists on calling "Count Roger of Poitou".
Alphonse was invested at Poitiers in July 1241 as count of Auvergne, Poitou, La Marche, etc. The lesser titles includes "count of Saintonge" or "count of Saintes" - there was no strict differentiation between these in the traditional Latin title, any more than there was between "Poitiers" and "Poitou".
However, medieval people were able to observe consistency as well as modern ones, and better than Richardson. When Alphonse became also "count of Toulouse" it made sense to give both his major titles as the names of cities, "count of Toulouse and Poitiers" rather than as the surrounding territories, "count of the Toulousain and Poitou".
To pretend that Richardson was "going through" the administrative correspondence of Alphonse, that is written in Latin, is a bad joke. Someone who talks about contemporary sources for Roger the Poitevin and yet thinks the Latin for his name is "Rogero" obviously can't make his way through a single sentence of Latin. The name is "Rogerius".
-
Douglas Richardson
Re: Fw: Roger le Poitevin
You're dragging your feet, Leo.
Alphonse was either "Comte de Poitiers" or "Comte de Poitou." Which is
it?
DR
"Leo van de Pas" wrote:
Alphonse was either "Comte de Poitiers" or "Comte de Poitou." Which is
it?
DR
"Leo van de Pas" wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas Richardson" <royalancestry@msn.com
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: Roger le Poitevin
Dear Leo:
You are wrong again. The two volume work, "Correspondance
administrative d'Alfonse de Poitiers," by Molinier, published in
1894-1900, is part in Latin and part in French. So far, all the
instances of Alphonse's title in the French documents I have seen are
"Comte de Poitiers," not "Comte de Poitou" as you have it.
=====I am wrong again? Do provide where I say that Molinier is only in one
language?
I don't know if it's time you admitted your error on Alphonse's title,
but foot dragging, name calling, and making wild allegations won't help
you. He was either "Comte de Poitiers" or "Comte de Poitou." Which
is it, Leo?
===== You dragged in Alphonse, I have no interest in him.
If you feel "Comte de Poitou" is the correct title, simply cite some
original documents which show this. And, please provide your sources.
Thank you!
===== The only thing I feel is that you are brawling-----again. And why? Do
explain.
-
Leo van de Pas
Re: Fw: Roger le Poitevin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas Richardson" <royalancestry@msn.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: Roger le Poitevin
language?
explain.
From: "Douglas Richardson" <royalancestry@msn.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: Roger le Poitevin
Dear Leo:
You are wrong again. The two volume work, "Correspondance
administrative d'Alfonse de Poitiers," by Molinier, published in
1894-1900, is part in Latin and part in French. So far, all the
instances of Alphonse's title in the French documents I have seen are
"Comte de Poitiers," not "Comte de Poitou" as you have it.
=====I am wrong again? Do provide where I say that Molinier is only in one
language?
I don't know if it's time you admitted your error on Alphonse's title,
but foot dragging, name calling, and making wild allegations won't help
you. He was either "Comte de Poitiers" or "Comte de Poitou." Which
is it, Leo?
===== You dragged in Alphonse, I have no interest in him.
If you feel "Comte de Poitou" is the correct title, simply cite some
original documents which show this. And, please provide your sources.
Thank you!
===== The only thing I feel is that you are brawling-----again. And why? Do
explain.
-
Leo van de Pas
Re: Fw: Roger le Poitevin
You think my feet are dragging? I think it really is your brain which is
very slow.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas Richardson" <royalancestry@msn.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 10:47 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: Roger le Poitevin
very slow.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas Richardson" <royalancestry@msn.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 10:47 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: Roger le Poitevin
You're dragging your feet, Leo.
Alphonse was either "Comte de Poitiers" or "Comte de Poitou." Which is
it?
DR
"Leo van de Pas" wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas Richardson" <royalancestry@msn.com
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: Roger le Poitevin
Dear Leo:
You are wrong again. The two volume work, "Correspondance
administrative d'Alfonse de Poitiers," by Molinier, published in
1894-1900, is part in Latin and part in French. So far, all the
instances of Alphonse's title in the French documents I have seen are
"Comte de Poitiers," not "Comte de Poitou" as you have it.
=====I am wrong again? Do provide where I say that Molinier is only in
one
language?
I don't know if it's time you admitted your error on Alphonse's title,
but foot dragging, name calling, and making wild allegations won't help
you. He was either "Comte de Poitiers" or "Comte de Poitou." Which
is it, Leo?
===== You dragged in Alphonse, I have no interest in him.
If you feel "Comte de Poitou" is the correct title, simply cite some
original documents which show this. And, please provide your sources.
Thank you!
===== The only thing I feel is that you are brawling-----again. And why?
Do
explain.
-
Chris Phillips
Re: Fw: Roger le Poitevin
Douglas Richardson wrote:
Are you sure there are contemporary French texts in this work?
Please can you give us the page reference for one of the French documents
you have seen that says "Comte de Poitiers" ?
Chris Phillips
You are wrong again. The two volume work, "Correspondance
administrative d'Alfonse de Poitiers," by Molinier, published in
1894-1900, is part in Latin and part in French. So far, all the
instances of Alphonse's title in the French documents I have seen are
"Comte de Poitiers," not "Comte de Poitou" as you have it.
Are you sure there are contemporary French texts in this work?
Please can you give us the page reference for one of the French documents
you have seen that says "Comte de Poitiers" ?
Chris Phillips