Fw: Roger le Poitevin

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Leo van de Pas

Fw: Roger le Poitevin

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 13 des 2005 23:40:02

RIchardson is pestering me as a distraction from his own fallacies regarding the person he absurdly insists on calling "Count Roger of Poitou".

Alphonse was invested at Poitiers in July 1241 as count of Auvergne, Poitou, La Marche, etc. The lesser titles includes "count of Saintonge" or "count of Saintes" - there was no strict differentiation between these in the traditional Latin title, any more than there was between "Poitiers" and "Poitou".

However, medieval people were able to observe consistency as well as modern ones, and better than Richardson. When Alphonse became also "count of Toulouse" it made sense to give both his major titles as the names of cities, "count of Toulouse and Poitiers" rather than as the surrounding territories, "count of the Toulousain and Poitou".

To pretend that Richardson was "going through" the administrative correspondence of Alphonse, that is written in Latin, is a bad joke. Someone who talks about contemporary sources for Roger the Poitevin and yet thinks the Latin for his name is "Rogero" obviously can't make his way through a single sentence of Latin. The name is "Rogerius".

Douglas Richardson

Re: Fw: Roger le Poitevin

Legg inn av Douglas Richardson » 14 des 2005 00:23:12

Dear Leo:

You are wrong again. The two volume work, "Correspondance
administrative d'Alfonse de Poitiers," by Molinier, published in
1894-1900, is part in Latin and part in French. So far, all the
instances of Alphonse's title in the French documents I have seen are
"Comte de Poitiers," not "Comte de Poitou" as you have it.

I don't know if it's time you admitted your error on Alphonse's title,
but foot dragging, name calling, and making wild allegations won't help
you. He was either "Comte de Poitiers" or "Comte de Poitou." Which
is it, Leo?

If you feel "Comte de Poitou" is the correct title, simply cite some
original documents which show this. And, please provide your sources.
Thank you!

For your ease of access, the links to Molinier's work are given below:

Volume 1:

http://visualiseur.bnf.fr/CadresFenetre ... on&Y=Image

Volume 2:

http://visualiseur.bnf.fr/CadresFenetre ... on&Y=Image

Let us know what you find. Good luck in your sleuthing.

DR

"Leo van de Pas" wrote:
RIchardson is pestering me as a distraction from his own fallacies regarding the person he absurdly insists on calling "Count Roger of Poitou".

Alphonse was invested at Poitiers in July 1241 as count of Auvergne, Poitou, La Marche, etc. The lesser titles includes "count of Saintonge" or "count of Saintes" - there was no strict differentiation between these in the traditional Latin title, any more than there was between "Poitiers" and "Poitou".

However, medieval people were able to observe consistency as well as modern ones, and better than Richardson. When Alphonse became also "count of Toulouse" it made sense to give both his major titles as the names of cities, "count of Toulouse and Poitiers" rather than as the surrounding territories, "count of the Toulousain and Poitou".

To pretend that Richardson was "going through" the administrative correspondence of Alphonse, that is written in Latin, is a bad joke. Someone who talks about contemporary sources for Roger the Poitevin and yet thinks the Latin for his name is "Rogero" obviously can't make his way through a single sentence of Latin. The name is "Rogerius".

Douglas Richardson

Re: Fw: Roger le Poitevin

Legg inn av Douglas Richardson » 14 des 2005 00:47:46

You're dragging your feet, Leo.

Alphonse was either "Comte de Poitiers" or "Comte de Poitou." Which is
it?

DR

"Leo van de Pas" wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas Richardson" <royalancestry@msn.com
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: Roger le Poitevin


Dear Leo:

You are wrong again. The two volume work, "Correspondance
administrative d'Alfonse de Poitiers," by Molinier, published in
1894-1900, is part in Latin and part in French. So far, all the
instances of Alphonse's title in the French documents I have seen are
"Comte de Poitiers," not "Comte de Poitou" as you have it.
=====I am wrong again? Do provide where I say that Molinier is only in one
language?


I don't know if it's time you admitted your error on Alphonse's title,
but foot dragging, name calling, and making wild allegations won't help
you. He was either "Comte de Poitiers" or "Comte de Poitou." Which
is it, Leo?
===== You dragged in Alphonse, I have no interest in him.


If you feel "Comte de Poitou" is the correct title, simply cite some
original documents which show this. And, please provide your sources.
Thank you!
===== The only thing I feel is that you are brawling-----again. And why? Do
explain.

Leo van de Pas

Re: Fw: Roger le Poitevin

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 14 des 2005 00:51:02

----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas Richardson" <royalancestry@msn.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: Roger le Poitevin


Dear Leo:

You are wrong again. The two volume work, "Correspondance
administrative d'Alfonse de Poitiers," by Molinier, published in
1894-1900, is part in Latin and part in French. So far, all the
instances of Alphonse's title in the French documents I have seen are
"Comte de Poitiers," not "Comte de Poitou" as you have it.
=====I am wrong again? Do provide where I say that Molinier is only in one

language?

I don't know if it's time you admitted your error on Alphonse's title,
but foot dragging, name calling, and making wild allegations won't help
you. He was either "Comte de Poitiers" or "Comte de Poitou." Which
is it, Leo?
===== You dragged in Alphonse, I have no interest in him.


If you feel "Comte de Poitou" is the correct title, simply cite some
original documents which show this. And, please provide your sources.
Thank you!
===== The only thing I feel is that you are brawling-----again. And why? Do

explain.

Leo van de Pas

Re: Fw: Roger le Poitevin

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 14 des 2005 02:56:02

You think my feet are dragging? I think it really is your brain which is
very slow.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas Richardson" <royalancestry@msn.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 10:47 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: Roger le Poitevin


You're dragging your feet, Leo.

Alphonse was either "Comte de Poitiers" or "Comte de Poitou." Which is
it?

DR

"Leo van de Pas" wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas Richardson" <royalancestry@msn.com
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: Roger le Poitevin


Dear Leo:

You are wrong again. The two volume work, "Correspondance
administrative d'Alfonse de Poitiers," by Molinier, published in
1894-1900, is part in Latin and part in French. So far, all the
instances of Alphonse's title in the French documents I have seen are
"Comte de Poitiers," not "Comte de Poitou" as you have it.
=====I am wrong again? Do provide where I say that Molinier is only in
one
language?


I don't know if it's time you admitted your error on Alphonse's title,
but foot dragging, name calling, and making wild allegations won't help
you. He was either "Comte de Poitiers" or "Comte de Poitou." Which
is it, Leo?
===== You dragged in Alphonse, I have no interest in him.


If you feel "Comte de Poitou" is the correct title, simply cite some
original documents which show this. And, please provide your sources.
Thank you!
===== The only thing I feel is that you are brawling-----again. And why?
Do
explain.


Chris Phillips

Re: Fw: Roger le Poitevin

Legg inn av Chris Phillips » 14 des 2005 10:34:59

Douglas Richardson wrote:
You are wrong again. The two volume work, "Correspondance
administrative d'Alfonse de Poitiers," by Molinier, published in
1894-1900, is part in Latin and part in French. So far, all the
instances of Alphonse's title in the French documents I have seen are
"Comte de Poitiers," not "Comte de Poitou" as you have it.


Are you sure there are contemporary French texts in this work?

Please can you give us the page reference for one of the French documents
you have seen that says "Comte de Poitiers" ?

Chris Phillips

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