Roger de Montgommery - La Marche - and that charter

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Leo van de Pas

Roger de Montgommery - La Marche - and that charter

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 11 des 2005 01:08:02

Someone interested in this story, corrected me but certainly also corrects
Douglas Richardson

By the way, Roger the Poitevin's wife Almodis became countess of La Marche
following the death of her brother Boso III in battle at Confolens in
1091. She was married to Roger around the same time, so that he was count
of La Marche at the time of his gift to Saint-Martin at Sées in Normandy
dated 1094.

The original document, that is his personal charter for this gift, does
not exist - all the surviving versions are at least one step removed,
records transcribed in the third person perfect tense (that is, describing
a past action, "donavit" in the Norman copies, "dedit" in the Lancashire
copy, meaning literally "he gave"). The original charter would obviously
have been in the first person present tense (e.g. "Ego Rogerius
comes....dono...", meaning "I, Count Roger, give..."). The point that
Kathleeen Thompson established is that the Lancashire notice of this gift
in 1094 was made much later, between 1130 & 1150, but NOT that the actual
gift of Roger was allegedly made at the later date as Richardson
misunderstands it. If he knew the most basic Latin he would have twigged
to this.

Chris Phillips

Re: Roger de Montgommery - La Marche - and that charter

Legg inn av Chris Phillips » 11 des 2005 01:39:27

Leo van de Pas [quoted a correspondent]:
The original document, that is his personal charter for this gift, does
not exist - all the surviving versions are at least one step removed,
records transcribed in the third person perfect tense (that is,
describing
a past action, "donavit" in the Norman copies, "dedit" in the Lancashire
copy, meaning literally "he gave"). The original charter would obviously
have been in the first person present tense (e.g. "Ego Rogerius
comes....dono...", meaning "I, Count Roger, give...").


I don't think it's quite this simple. If I understand correctly, legally the
actual gift was supposed to take place before the writing of the charter, so
the past tense was normal.

Chris Phillips

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