I refreshed my list of immigrants with royal links. This list
is about immigrants to French colonies in North America. URL is
http://www.francogene.com/genealogy/qrd30.php
The list is improved:
# there is now a link to the family of the immigrant in my other
database. That way, you can see the ancestors (families are one
by one) and the descendants (to families formed before 1716 and
their married children). However, not all families are linked to
royalty and I have not yet added all known ancestors.
# the main documentation about the line is improved. I added the
title of articles and the authors to many of them.
The new list has now 41 names. New entries include: Jeanne MOTIN
(Acadia), the Rastel de Rocheblave (Montreal, Kaskaskia, Antillas),
Sévigny and Sicard de Carufel.
For the Sicard, I am not very satisfied. While a lot of web sites
seem to support the ancestry, very few are not based on other
sites. It seems that one site is analyzing the sources:
http://www.electroauthor.com/marcotte_g ... espon2.htm
The site http:blanc.mfoudi.online.fr/t-luquet/tableau.html has an
analysis of many sources but if you check carefully the data, you
will find a lot of chronological anomalies. Nonetheless, I have
decided to start from that site to integrate that genealogy. I will
try to document the first 10 generations and later lines. So far,
the sources I found were corroborating the work. It seems a major
work is a genealogy by Jean Louis Dega but I don't know where to find
it.
Denis
--
0 Denis Beauregard - Les Français d'Amérique
/\/ http://www.francogene.com/genealogie-quebec/
|\ French in North America before 1711
/ | http://www.francogene.com/quebec-genealogy/
oo oo Mes associations de généalogie: http://www.sgcf.com/
http://www.genealogie.org/club/sglj/index2.html
Updated QRD30 list, now over 40 royal gateways
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Bob Turcott
RE: Updated QRD30 list, now over 40 royal gateways
Denis,
This list is an excellent resource and it is linked to one of my webpages.
I want to inform you that I have taken on an exciting project. The Project
is about ancestor Francoise de Meherenc, I am currently obtaining all the
coats of arms for all branches of the Meherenc families of Saint Pierre and
of Montmirel, in addition and it may take a while, I am also trying to
obtain as many arms as possible for the families that married the Meherenc
as well. I am fully aware of the royal lines currently linked to the
Meherenc as well with thanks to you, Jean Bunot & Alain Contant.
I have also obtainted a photo of the manor of Montmirel that exists 20 kms
of Canchy, in district of Bayeux France, ancestor Francoise de Meherenc is
believed to be born in this very manor and the family of Meherenc lived
here. I have been obtaining this information about the Manor du Montmirel
from Larry Dumont of the Dumont/Guerret family association. Larry has visted
the Manor himself in 1996 and I have the great priveledge of gathering as
much information from Larry about the Manor and the family. In all and I am
Undecided at this point wether I will make a special website about Francoise
or write a special paper, I am very tempted to make a special webpage that
will contain the coats of arms and the manor photos. The links to the royal
lines may be added as well.
Bob
From: Denis Beauregard <no@nospam.com.invalid>
Reply-To: denis.b-at-francogene.com.invalid@nospam.com.invalid
To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Updated QRD30 list, now over 40 royal gateways
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 20:37:15 -0500
_________________________________________________________________
On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to
get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement
This list is an excellent resource and it is linked to one of my webpages.
I want to inform you that I have taken on an exciting project. The Project
is about ancestor Francoise de Meherenc, I am currently obtaining all the
coats of arms for all branches of the Meherenc families of Saint Pierre and
of Montmirel, in addition and it may take a while, I am also trying to
obtain as many arms as possible for the families that married the Meherenc
as well. I am fully aware of the royal lines currently linked to the
Meherenc as well with thanks to you, Jean Bunot & Alain Contant.
I have also obtainted a photo of the manor of Montmirel that exists 20 kms
of Canchy, in district of Bayeux France, ancestor Francoise de Meherenc is
believed to be born in this very manor and the family of Meherenc lived
here. I have been obtaining this information about the Manor du Montmirel
from Larry Dumont of the Dumont/Guerret family association. Larry has visted
the Manor himself in 1996 and I have the great priveledge of gathering as
much information from Larry about the Manor and the family. In all and I am
Undecided at this point wether I will make a special website about Francoise
or write a special paper, I am very tempted to make a special webpage that
will contain the coats of arms and the manor photos. The links to the royal
lines may be added as well.
Bob
From: Denis Beauregard <no@nospam.com.invalid>
Reply-To: denis.b-at-francogene.com.invalid@nospam.com.invalid
To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Updated QRD30 list, now over 40 royal gateways
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 20:37:15 -0500
I refreshed my list of immigrants with royal links. This list
is about immigrants to French colonies in North America. URL is
http://www.francogene.com/genealogy/qrd30.php
The list is improved:
# there is now a link to the family of the immigrant in my other
database. That way, you can see the ancestors (families are one
by one) and the descendants (to families formed before 1716 and
their married children). However, not all families are linked to
royalty and I have not yet added all known ancestors.
# the main documentation about the line is improved. I added the
title of articles and the authors to many of them.
The new list has now 41 names. New entries include: Jeanne MOTIN
(Acadia), the Rastel de Rocheblave (Montreal, Kaskaskia, Antillas),
Sévigny and Sicard de Carufel.
For the Sicard, I am not very satisfied. While a lot of web sites
seem to support the ancestry, very few are not based on other
sites. It seems that one site is analyzing the sources:
http://www.electroauthor.com/marcotte_g ... espon2.htm
The site http:blanc.mfoudi.online.fr/t-luquet/tableau.html has an
analysis of many sources but if you check carefully the data, you
will find a lot of chronological anomalies. Nonetheless, I have
decided to start from that site to integrate that genealogy. I will
try to document the first 10 generations and later lines. So far,
the sources I found were corroborating the work. It seems a major
work is a genealogy by Jean Louis Dega but I don't know where to find
it.
Denis
--
0 Denis Beauregard - Les Français d'Amérique
/\/ http://www.francogene.com/genealogie-quebec/
|\ French in North America before 1711
/ | http://www.francogene.com/quebec-genealogy/
oo oo Mes associations de généalogie: http://www.sgcf.com/
http://www.genealogie.org/club/sglj/index2.html
_________________________________________________________________
On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to
get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement
-
Gjest
Re: Updated QRD30 list, now over 40 royal gateways
Merci infiniement Monsieur Beauregard pour ce beau travail.
If the Sicard de Carufel line is valid, it would prove to be one of the
most important royal gateways for Quebec and maybe in North America. It
includes such families as : de Roquefeuil-Padies, de
Ventadour-Douzenac, d Aubusson, Rogier de Beaufort, d Estaing, de
Morlhon, d Anduze, de Grimoard, de Gozon, de La Panouse, de Dienne, d
Apchier, etc. Further up in time, appear the counts and dauphins of
Auvergne, counts of Toulouse, kings of France, England and Castile, etc
Jean Bunot
If the Sicard de Carufel line is valid, it would prove to be one of the
most important royal gateways for Quebec and maybe in North America. It
includes such families as : de Roquefeuil-Padies, de
Ventadour-Douzenac, d Aubusson, Rogier de Beaufort, d Estaing, de
Morlhon, d Anduze, de Grimoard, de Gozon, de La Panouse, de Dienne, d
Apchier, etc. Further up in time, appear the counts and dauphins of
Auvergne, counts of Toulouse, kings of France, England and Castile, etc
Jean Bunot
For the Sicard, I am not very satisfied. While a lot of web sites
seem to support the ancestry, very few are not based on other
sites. It seems that one site is analyzing the sources:
http://www.electroauthor.com/marcotte_g ... espon2.htm
The site http:blanc.mfoudi.online.fr/t-luquet/tableau.html has an
analysis of many sources but if you check carefully the data, you
will find a lot of chronological anomalies. Nonetheless, I have
decided to start from that site to integrate that genealogy. I will
try to document the first 10 generations and later lines. So far,
the sources I found were corroborating the work. It seems a major
work is a genealogy by Jean Louis Dega but I don't know where to find
it.
Denis
--
0 Denis Beauregard - Les Français d'Amérique
/\/ http://www.francogene.com/genealogie-quebec/
|\ French in North America before 1711
/ | http://www.francogene.com/quebec-genealogy/
oo oo Mes associations de généalogie: http://www.sgcf.com/
http://www.genealogie.org/club/sglj/index2.html
-
Gordon Banks
Re: Updated QRD30 list, now over 40 royal gateways
It is a beautiful site, but it looks like most of their charts lead
through Makhir, which as I understand it, is a doubtful connection. Nat
Taylor published a paper on it, I believe.
On Wed, 2005-11-30 at 21:36 -0800, magnusrufus@yahoo.com wrote:
through Makhir, which as I understand it, is a doubtful connection. Nat
Taylor published a paper on it, I believe.
On Wed, 2005-11-30 at 21:36 -0800, magnusrufus@yahoo.com wrote:
Merci infiniement Monsieur Beauregard pour ce beau travail.
If the Sicard de Carufel line is valid, it would prove to be one of the
most important royal gateways for Quebec and maybe in North America. It
includes such families as : de Roquefeuil-Padies, de
Ventadour-Douzenac, d Aubusson, Rogier de Beaufort, d Estaing, de
Morlhon, d Anduze, de Grimoard, de Gozon, de La Panouse, de Dienne, d
Apchier, etc. Further up in time, appear the counts and dauphins of
Auvergne, counts of Toulouse, kings of France, England and Castile, etc
Jean Bunot
For the Sicard, I am not very satisfied. While a lot of web sites
seem to support the ancestry, very few are not based on other
sites. It seems that one site is analyzing the sources:
http://www.electroauthor.com/marcotte_g ... espon2.htm
The site http:blanc.mfoudi.online.fr/t-luquet/tableau.html has an
analysis of many sources but if you check carefully the data, you
will find a lot of chronological anomalies. Nonetheless, I have
decided to start from that site to integrate that genealogy. I will
try to document the first 10 generations and later lines. So far,
the sources I found were corroborating the work. It seems a major
work is a genealogy by Jean Louis Dega but I don't know where to find
it.
Denis
--
0 Denis Beauregard - Les Français d'Amérique
/\/ http://www.francogene.com/genealogie-quebec/
|\ French in North America before 1711
/ | http://www.francogene.com/quebec-genealogy/
oo oo Mes associations de généalogie: http://www.sgcf.com/
http://www.genealogie.org/club/sglj/index2.html
-
Denis Beauregard
Re: Updated QRD30 list, now over 40 royal gateways
Le Thu, 1 Dec 2005 17:17:53 +0000 (UTC), geb@gordonbanks.com (Gordon
Banks) écrivait dans soc.genealogy.medieval:
I checked my database and Makhir is not found, neither in the
http:blanc.mfoudi.online.fr/ site. So, which site are you talking
about ? Or is Makhir mispelled ?
Denis
--
0 Denis Beauregard - Les Français d'Amérique
/\/ http://www.francogene.com/genealogie-quebec/
|\ French in North America before 1711
/ | http://www.francogene.com/quebec-genealogy/
oo oo Mes associations de généalogie: http://www.sgcf.com/
http://www.genealogie.org/club/sglj/index2.html
Banks) écrivait dans soc.genealogy.medieval:
It is a beautiful site, but it looks like most of their charts lead
through Makhir, which as I understand it, is a doubtful connection. Nat
Taylor published a paper on it, I believe.
I checked my database and Makhir is not found, neither in the
http:blanc.mfoudi.online.fr/ site. So, which site are you talking
about ? Or is Makhir mispelled ?
Denis
--
0 Denis Beauregard - Les Français d'Amérique
/\/ http://www.francogene.com/genealogie-quebec/
|\ French in North America before 1711
/ | http://www.francogene.com/quebec-genealogy/
oo oo Mes associations de généalogie: http://www.sgcf.com/
http://www.genealogie.org/club/sglj/index2.html
-
Gordon Banks
Re: Updated QRD30 list, now over 40 royal gateways
Sorry, she spells it "Makir".
Here is just one of the charts leading through Makir for the Sassinids:
http://www.electroauthor.com/marcotte_g ... ssanid.htm
I believe there is a more likely connection from the medieval royals to
the Sassinids found in Don Stone's work (following Settipani, I think),
though the Byzantine Emperors, but she doesn't have it.
On Wed, 2005-11-30 at 21:36 -0800, magnusrufus@yahoo.com wrote:
Here is just one of the charts leading through Makir for the Sassinids:
http://www.electroauthor.com/marcotte_g ... ssanid.htm
I believe there is a more likely connection from the medieval royals to
the Sassinids found in Don Stone's work (following Settipani, I think),
though the Byzantine Emperors, but she doesn't have it.
On Wed, 2005-11-30 at 21:36 -0800, magnusrufus@yahoo.com wrote:
Merci infiniement Monsieur Beauregard pour ce beau travail.
If the Sicard de Carufel line is valid, it would prove to be one of the
most important royal gateways for Quebec and maybe in North America. It
includes such families as : de Roquefeuil-Padies, de
Ventadour-Douzenac, d Aubusson, Rogier de Beaufort, d Estaing, de
Morlhon, d Anduze, de Grimoard, de Gozon, de La Panouse, de Dienne, d
Apchier, etc. Further up in time, appear the counts and dauphins of
Auvergne, counts of Toulouse, kings of France, England and Castile, etc
Jean Bunot
For the Sicard, I am not very satisfied. While a lot of web sites
seem to support the ancestry, very few are not based on other
sites. It seems that one site is analyzing the sources:
http://www.electroauthor.com/marcotte_g ... espon2.htm
The site http:blanc.mfoudi.online.fr/t-luquet/tableau.html has an
analysis of many sources but if you check carefully the data, you
will find a lot of chronological anomalies. Nonetheless, I have
decided to start from that site to integrate that genealogy. I will
try to document the first 10 generations and later lines. So far,
the sources I found were corroborating the work. It seems a major
work is a genealogy by Jean Louis Dega but I don't know where to find
it.
Denis
--
0 Denis Beauregard - Les Français d'Amérique
/\/ http://www.francogene.com/genealogie-quebec/
|\ French in North America before 1711
/ | http://www.francogene.com/quebec-genealogy/
oo oo Mes associations de généalogie: http://www.sgcf.com/
http://www.genealogie.org/club/sglj/index2.html
-
Nathaniel Taylor
Re: Updated QRD30 list, now over 40 royal gateways
In article <1133472801.23591.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>,
geb@gordonbanks.com (Gordon Banks) wrote:
Yes; see my “King David, Saint William, and Makhir: a Controversial
Medieval Descent,â€
geb@gordonbanks.com (Gordon Banks) wrote:
Sorry, she spells it "Makir".
Here is just one of the charts leading through Makir for the Sassinids:
http://www.electroauthor.com/marcotte_g ... ssanid.htm
It is a beautiful site, but it looks like most of their charts lead
through Makhir, which as I understand it, is a doubtful connection. Nat
Taylor published a paper on it, I believe.
Yes; see my “King David, Saint William, and Makhir: a Controversial
Medieval Descent,â€
-
Don Stone
DFAs; WAS Re: Updated QRD30 list, now over 40 royal gateways
Gordon Banks wrote:
Not to the Sassinids, but to earlier Persians. To summarize:
There are descents to the present from two children of Charles Constantine,
Count of Vienne, son of Louis III the Blind, King of Provence and Italy, and
Anna of Byzantium. Lines going through Charles's probable daughter
Constance, are well known; she married Boso II, Count of Avignon and Arles
(though a few are skeptical of the primarily onomastic argument). Lines
through Charles's son Richard are less well known; see my discussion in this
forum dated Aug. 31, 1997 (search for hucbert and "Charles Constantine" at
Google Groups by using the URL
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_q=hu ... 5&safe=off).
Charles Constantine (following Christian Settipani's Nos ancêtres de
l'Antiquité) is descended from either the Byzantine emperor Basil I or the
Byzantine emperor Michael III. Michael III has a quite plausible descent
from the Armenian king Tiran Tiridates the Great, d. 330/1. (Details are
sparse, though, on some of the Mamikonids through whom this line goes.)
Basil I has two possible descents from Tiran Tiridates the Great through his
two paternal grandparents. The line through his paternal grandfather is now
generally thought to be unlikely or unlikely to be provable, I believe. The
line through his paternal grandmother depends on the proposal that her
father was Emperor Leo V, an "audacious" hypothesis made by Nicolas Adontz
in 1933-4 and taken seriously by Settipani.
Settipani covers the ancestry of Tiran Tiridates the Great, with lines back
to Syria, Persia, classical Greece, and Ptolemaic Egypt, with varying
degrees of certainty. I have a skeletal "map" of some of these connections
at http://www.lineagecharts.com/AMDPChartMap.pdf.
What is the significance of a very long line of descent in which each step
is defensible but in many cases not certain? I think such a descent has a
symbolic significance. It represents one possible actualization of the very
probable descents that I and many others have from these historical
characters (Cyrus the Great of Persia, Cimon and Megacles of Athens, etc.).
See the interesting discussion by Dr. Mark Humphrys, Lecturer, School of
Computing, Dublin City University, at http://humphrysfamilytree.com/ca.html;
Dr. Humphrys claims that mathematical models and computer simulations lead
to conclusions like the following:
1. Quite likely the entire world is descended from the Ancient Egyptian
royal house, c. 1600 BC.
2. Quite likely almost everyone in the world descends from Confucius, c. 500 BC.
3. Quite likely everyone in the West descends from Charlemagne, c. 800 AD.
4. Quite likely everyone in the West descends from the Prophet Muhammad, c.
600 AD.
-- Don Stone
Sorry, she spells it "Makir".
Here is just one of the charts leading through Makir for the Sassinids:
http://www.electroauthor.com/marcotte_g ... ssanid.htm
I believe there is a more likely connection from the medieval royals to
the Sassinids found in Don Stone's work (following Settipani, I think),
though the Byzantine Emperors, but she doesn't have it.
Not to the Sassinids, but to earlier Persians. To summarize:
There are descents to the present from two children of Charles Constantine,
Count of Vienne, son of Louis III the Blind, King of Provence and Italy, and
Anna of Byzantium. Lines going through Charles's probable daughter
Constance, are well known; she married Boso II, Count of Avignon and Arles
(though a few are skeptical of the primarily onomastic argument). Lines
through Charles's son Richard are less well known; see my discussion in this
forum dated Aug. 31, 1997 (search for hucbert and "Charles Constantine" at
Google Groups by using the URL
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_q=hu ... 5&safe=off).
Charles Constantine (following Christian Settipani's Nos ancêtres de
l'Antiquité) is descended from either the Byzantine emperor Basil I or the
Byzantine emperor Michael III. Michael III has a quite plausible descent
from the Armenian king Tiran Tiridates the Great, d. 330/1. (Details are
sparse, though, on some of the Mamikonids through whom this line goes.)
Basil I has two possible descents from Tiran Tiridates the Great through his
two paternal grandparents. The line through his paternal grandfather is now
generally thought to be unlikely or unlikely to be provable, I believe. The
line through his paternal grandmother depends on the proposal that her
father was Emperor Leo V, an "audacious" hypothesis made by Nicolas Adontz
in 1933-4 and taken seriously by Settipani.
Settipani covers the ancestry of Tiran Tiridates the Great, with lines back
to Syria, Persia, classical Greece, and Ptolemaic Egypt, with varying
degrees of certainty. I have a skeletal "map" of some of these connections
at http://www.lineagecharts.com/AMDPChartMap.pdf.
What is the significance of a very long line of descent in which each step
is defensible but in many cases not certain? I think such a descent has a
symbolic significance. It represents one possible actualization of the very
probable descents that I and many others have from these historical
characters (Cyrus the Great of Persia, Cimon and Megacles of Athens, etc.).
See the interesting discussion by Dr. Mark Humphrys, Lecturer, School of
Computing, Dublin City University, at http://humphrysfamilytree.com/ca.html;
Dr. Humphrys claims that mathematical models and computer simulations lead
to conclusions like the following:
1. Quite likely the entire world is descended from the Ancient Egyptian
royal house, c. 1600 BC.
2. Quite likely almost everyone in the world descends from Confucius, c. 500 BC.
3. Quite likely everyone in the West descends from Charlemagne, c. 800 AD.
4. Quite likely everyone in the West descends from the Prophet Muhammad, c.
600 AD.
-- Don Stone