Another forgotten Gateway Ancestor ?

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Leo van de Pas

Another forgotten Gateway Ancestor ?

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 20 nov 2005 00:29:01

Someone sent me a fascinating story of so close but is it close enough?

The links to America seem to be important and therefor, lets start with

1.William Cosby, Governor of New York, born about 1690, died about 1735/1736
by his wife Grace Montagu he has a daughter

2.Elizabeth Cosby, died 21 December 1788, she married (1) March 1733 Lord Augustus Fitzroy who died in 1741 and she married again. By her fist husband she is mother of

3.Augustus Henry Fitzroy, 3rd Duke of Grafton, born 28 September4 1735.
On 29 January 1756 he married Hon. Anne Liddell, they divorced in 1769.
However, ES III/2 Tafel 373 gives four children, but I am sure the fourth one is by his second wife
1.Lady Georgiana no date of birth
2.George Henry born in 1760
3.Charles born in 1764
4.Henry born in 1770

Burke's Peerage 1999 Pages 1191,1192 give the following children from the first marriage
1.George Henry 4th Duke
2.Charles born in 1764
3.Lady Georgiana

and Henry born 1770 is recorded with the second wife.

And so we have August Henry married in January 1756 and George Henry was born in 1760. We do not know where Georgiana fits in. ES makes her the first born which still gives us sufficient time for another child.

I have been given information that there was a first child born on 8 May 1757, Priscilla 'Sarah' Elizabeth, who is said to have eloped aged 15 with Sir John Chamberlain and they moved to the USA where they stayed with a relative Lord Brian Fairfax and his second wife Jane Donaldson.

The story is told in a confusing way, Priscilla and Sir John had two children, Priscilla and John, but is is "Sarah" who died about the age of 20. The son John died apparently young but Priscilla Chamberlain grew up and married a newphew of Lady Jane Fairfax, William Donaldson.

So far so good. Lord Brian Fairfax just has to be Rev. Bryan Fairfax, 8th Lord Fairfax of Cameron and his second wife Jane Dennison, not Donaldson if we follow CP. They lived in Virgina and have Amercian descendants.

Can anyone add anything to this Lady Priscilla Sarah Elizabeth Fitzroy and her husband Sir John Chamberlain and their American descendants?

With many thanks
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia

Gjest

Re: Another forgotten Gateway Ancestor ?

Legg inn av Gjest » 20 nov 2005 00:55:28

"Leo van de Pas" schrieb:

Someone sent me a fascinating story of so close but is it close enough?

3.Augustus Henry Fitzroy, 3rd Duke of Grafton, born 28 September4 1735.
On 29 January 1756 he married Hon. Anne Liddell, they divorced in 1769.
However, ES III/2 Tafel 373 gives four children, but I am sure the fourth one is by his second wife
1.Lady Georgiana no date of birth
2.George Henry born in 1760
3.Charles born in 1764
4.Henry born in 1770

I have been given information that there was a first child born on 8 May 1757, Priscilla 'Sarah' Elizabeth, who is said to have eloped aged 15 with Sir John Chamberlain and they moved to the USA where they stayed with a relative Lord Brian Fairfax and his second wife Jane Donaldson.

Sounds like a fairy tale to me, Leo!

Theroff agrees that the first child was born 8 May 1757, but states
this was Lady Georgiana Fitzroy, who married in 1778 John Smyth
(1748-1811) and died in 1799, aged 41.

MAR

Leo

Re: Another forgotten Gateway Ancestor ?

Legg inn av Leo » 20 nov 2005 01:10:02

There have been stories that children who defied the family were written out
of the family tree. As the person who send me the story gave verifiable
aspects I thought it worthwile to repeat.
You quote Thereoff, does he quote a source? The date of birtgh of Georgiana
seems a find to me as I have not seen it anywhere before.
Leo

----- Original Message -----
From: <mjcar@btinternet.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2005 10:55 AM
Subject: Re: Another forgotten Gateway Ancestor ?


"Leo van de Pas" schrieb:

Someone sent me a fascinating story of so close but is it close enough?

3.Augustus Henry Fitzroy, 3rd Duke of Grafton, born 28 September4 1735.
On 29 January 1756 he married Hon. Anne Liddell, they divorced in 1769.
However, ES III/2 Tafel 373 gives four children, but I am sure the fourth
one is by his second wife
1.Lady Georgiana no date of birth
2.George Henry born in 1760
3.Charles born in 1764
4.Henry born in 1770

I have been given information that there was a first child born on 8 May
1757, Priscilla 'Sarah' Elizabeth, who is said to have eloped aged 15
with Sir John Chamberlain and they moved to the USA where they stayed
with a relative Lord Brian Fairfax and his second wife Jane Donaldson.

Sounds like a fairy tale to me, Leo!

Theroff agrees that the first child was born 8 May 1757, but states
this was Lady Georgiana Fitzroy, who married in 1778 John Smyth
(1748-1811) and died in 1799, aged 41.

MAR


Gjest

Re: Another forgotten Gateway Ancestor ?

Legg inn av Gjest » 20 nov 2005 09:49:20

"Leo van de Pas" schrieb:

I have been given information that there was a first child born on 8 May 1757, Priscilla 'Sarah' Elizabeth, who is said to have eloped aged 15 with Sir John Chamberlain and they moved to the USA where they stayed with a relative Lord Brian Fairfax and his second wife Jane Donaldson.

The story is told in a confusing way, Priscilla and Sir John had two children, Priscilla and John, but is is "Sarah" who died about the age of 20.

The first wife of the 8th Lord Fairfax of Cameron, according to
Burke's, died in 1778, so his marriage to Jane Dennison (?Donaldson)
cannot have been earlier than that year. If "Priscilla/Sarah" died
aged 20, then that must have been before 8 May 1778, so it seems
difficult for her and "Sir John Chamberlain" to have lived with the
peer and his second wife.

There is an IGI entry for one Priscilla Chamberlaine, said to have
married one William Donaldson at the First Methodist Episcopal Church
at Baltimore on 25 February 1796, but this ties in with another entry
which shows her having been born in Baltimore in 1773, the daughter of
"John Chamberlain" and "Sarah Grafton".

I note that, if the IGI is to be given any credence, Grafton is not
unknown as a surname in Baltimore, e.g. a Sarah Grafton married John
Doyle 18 April 1786.

Additionally, I found the following online:

"I'm hoping you can help me. I'm looking for the parents of Sir John
Chamberlain said to be the younger son of Lord Chamberlain. About 1771
he eloped with Priscilla Fitzroy of Grafton. They were either married
on a ship or sailed immediately after their elopement for Virginia,
taking refuge with Lord Brian Fairfax. Priscilla died about the age of
20 and Sir John a few years later. The only child born to this couple,
Priscilla M. Chamberlain, married William Donaldson, nephew of Lord
Brian Fairfax. They are listed in The Compendium of Amer. Gene, by
Virkus, Vol 7 pg 708. I'm hoping as a Chamberlain you have some hint
somewhere as to who Sir John Chamberlain was. I would really appreciate
it if you can give me the information of my ggg-grandparents."

This is slightly different to the information in your original post:
e.g. Priscilla (not explicitly stated to be a daughter of the Duke of
Grafton, but rather "of Grafton") dies at about the age of 20, leaving
only one child. I had a look at Leeson's Directory of British
Peerages, and there is no peerage in the name of Chamberlain, or held
by someone with that surname. Could this be a confused rendering of
"the Lord Chamberlain" - i.e. the principal officer of the Royal
Household?

A second, similar item was posted to ATR in 2001:

""I have an ancestor who is listed in the Compendium as Lady Priscilla
Grafton who it was said by her ggrandson that she was the daughter of
the Duke of Grafton. Lady Georgiana at one time had the birthday of May
1757, but now that has been changed to April 1763. That leaves May
1757 open for Priscilla. But why wasn't her name recorded--except for
the confusion of being born within days of the second dukes death. If
this were true her name should be Fitzroy. She eloped with Sir John
Chamberlain about 1772-3 and sailed to VA and stayed at Mt. Eagle,
(Lord Bryan Fairfax estate who married my distant aunt as his 2nd wife
Jane, and was her 2nd husband.) Do you have any knowledge of Priscilla
Fitzroy of Grafton? I have been searching for over 30 years for her
parents. I'd appreciate any information."

This seems to cast doubt on Georgiana's birthdate as 1757. I do not
know what Mr Theroff's source for this was, and haven't been able to
verify it from the resources immediately available to me.

For what it's worth, I don't attach any credence to the "Priscilla"
tale.

Cheers, Michael

Leo

Re: Another forgotten Gateway Ancestor ?

Legg inn av Leo » 20 nov 2005 11:00:02

Great. Many thanks for this. Stories have to be checked and if another
'tale' is debunked, so be it. The additional details are great. Much
appreciated.
Leo


----- Original Message -----
From: <mjcar@btinternet.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2005 7:49 PM
Subject: Re: Another forgotten Gateway Ancestor ?


"Leo van de Pas" schrieb:

I have been given information that there was a first child born on 8 May
1757, Priscilla 'Sarah' Elizabeth, who is said to have eloped aged 15
with Sir John Chamberlain and they moved to the USA where they stayed
with a relative Lord Brian Fairfax and his second wife Jane Donaldson.

The story is told in a confusing way, Priscilla and Sir John had two
children, Priscilla and John, but is is "Sarah" who died about the age of
20.

The first wife of the 8th Lord Fairfax of Cameron, according to
Burke's, died in 1778, so his marriage to Jane Dennison (?Donaldson)
cannot have been earlier than that year. If "Priscilla/Sarah" died
aged 20, then that must have been before 8 May 1778, so it seems
difficult for her and "Sir John Chamberlain" to have lived with the
peer and his second wife.

There is an IGI entry for one Priscilla Chamberlaine, said to have
married one William Donaldson at the First Methodist Episcopal Church
at Baltimore on 25 February 1796, but this ties in with another entry
which shows her having been born in Baltimore in 1773, the daughter of
"John Chamberlain" and "Sarah Grafton".

I note that, if the IGI is to be given any credence, Grafton is not
unknown as a surname in Baltimore, e.g. a Sarah Grafton married John
Doyle 18 April 1786.

Additionally, I found the following online:

"I'm hoping you can help me. I'm looking for the parents of Sir John
Chamberlain said to be the younger son of Lord Chamberlain. About 1771
he eloped with Priscilla Fitzroy of Grafton. They were either married
on a ship or sailed immediately after their elopement for Virginia,
taking refuge with Lord Brian Fairfax. Priscilla died about the age of
20 and Sir John a few years later. The only child born to this couple,
Priscilla M. Chamberlain, married William Donaldson, nephew of Lord
Brian Fairfax. They are listed in The Compendium of Amer. Gene, by
Virkus, Vol 7 pg 708. I'm hoping as a Chamberlain you have some hint
somewhere as to who Sir John Chamberlain was. I would really appreciate
it if you can give me the information of my ggg-grandparents."

This is slightly different to the information in your original post:
e.g. Priscilla (not explicitly stated to be a daughter of the Duke of
Grafton, but rather "of Grafton") dies at about the age of 20, leaving
only one child. I had a look at Leeson's Directory of British
Peerages, and there is no peerage in the name of Chamberlain, or held
by someone with that surname. Could this be a confused rendering of
"the Lord Chamberlain" - i.e. the principal officer of the Royal
Household?

A second, similar item was posted to ATR in 2001:

""I have an ancestor who is listed in the Compendium as Lady Priscilla
Grafton who it was said by her ggrandson that she was the daughter of
the Duke of Grafton. Lady Georgiana at one time had the birthday of May
1757, but now that has been changed to April 1763. That leaves May
1757 open for Priscilla. But why wasn't her name recorded--except for
the confusion of being born within days of the second dukes death. If
this were true her name should be Fitzroy. She eloped with Sir John
Chamberlain about 1772-3 and sailed to VA and stayed at Mt. Eagle,
(Lord Bryan Fairfax estate who married my distant aunt as his 2nd wife
Jane, and was her 2nd husband.) Do you have any knowledge of Priscilla
Fitzroy of Grafton? I have been searching for over 30 years for her
parents. I'd appreciate any information."

This seems to cast doubt on Georgiana's birthdate as 1757. I do not
know what Mr Theroff's source for this was, and haven't been able to
verify it from the resources immediately available to me.

For what it's worth, I don't attach any credence to the "Priscilla"
tale.

Cheers, Michael


Grant Menzies

Re: Another forgotten Gateway Ancestor ?

Legg inn av Grant Menzies » 21 nov 2005 01:32:16

leo@home.netspeed.com.au ("Leo") wrote:

There have been stories that children who defied the family were written out
of the family tree. As the person who send me the story gave verifiable
aspects I thought it worthwile to repeat.
snip


It is very interesting, Leo, especially as in my mother's family we
were told that our ancestor, James Wise, was cut out of the will of
his father John Wise V of Accomack, Virginia, for marrying a woman not
of his family's choice. I spent hundreds of hours researching this
link and gathering in the countless bits of data related to this
prominent family and their even more prominent relatives (the
Custises, etc.) Alas, a cousin with some sense reviewed all the
documents, discovered there was no link at all, and informed me - and
all my work went out with the recycling. It was a good lesson! On
the other hand, families did sometimes cut off children who disobeyed
them (though even if cutting a child out of a will, the parent had to
leave at least a shilling to the miscreant), so it's always worthwhile
looking into such cases.

Grant


=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Grant Hayter-Menzies
http://www.authorsden.com/grantmmenzies
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

http://www.authorsden.com/grantmmenzies

Gjest

Re: Another forgotten Gateway Ancestor ?

Legg inn av Gjest » 22 nov 2005 00:51:01

In a message dated 11/20/05 4:48:17 PM Pacific Standard Time,
scotsman@europa.com writes:

<< On
the other hand, families did sometimes cut off children who disobeyed
them (though even if cutting a child out of a will, the parent had to
leave at least a shilling to the miscreant), so it's always worthwhile
looking into such cases. >>

Not to mention that any child cut-out could challenge the will in court and
did. So a will alone, without looking into the probate as well, means only
half the research is done.
Will Johnson

Gjest

Re: Another forgotten Gateway Ancestor ?

Legg inn av Gjest » 22 nov 2005 08:27:00

WJhonson@aol.com schrieb:

In a message dated 11/20/05 4:48:17 PM Pacific Standard Time,
scotsman@europa.com writes:

On
the other hand, families did sometimes cut off children who disobeyed
them (though even if cutting a child out of a will, the parent had to
leave at least a shilling to the miscreant), so it's always worthwhile
looking into such cases.

Not to mention that any child cut-out could challenge the will in court and
did. So a will alone, without looking into the probate as well, means only
half the research is done.
Will Johnson

In England, the probate record will normally be part of the will
record, and will not normally include details of any dispute as to the
terms of the will. Such legal challenges will ordinarily be part of
the legal record - Chancery proceedings are the best place to look.

Given that the Duke of Garfton in question here was PM until the year
before this spectacular elopment is alleged to have taken place, and
held high political office for several years afterwards, I think we can
conclude that it would have been noted in contemporary records.

MAR

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