Talbot family

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Terry

Talbot family

Legg inn av Terry » 16 nov 2005 00:09:01

Can some one tell me, do the Talbots really descend from Richard I Duke of Normandy, or is this just another made up decent?
Thanks
Terry L. Mair
Mair's Photography
158 South 580 East
Midway, Utah 84049
435-654-3607
http://www.mairsphotography.com

Gjest

Re: Talbot family

Legg inn av Gjest » 16 nov 2005 02:11:01

In a message dated 11/15/05 3:08:57 PM Pacific Standard Time,
terry@mairsphotography.com writes:

<< Can some one tell me, do the Talbots really descend from Richard I Duke of
Normandy, or is this just another made up decent? >>

Yes some Talbots do.
Will Johnson

Terry

Re: Talbot family

Legg inn av Terry » 16 nov 2005 02:32:02

Ok thanks
Not wanting to belabor this, I guess I should have been more precise, does
the family name Talbot come from one of Richards grand children? I know it
means something like hill or valley, so there are probably more then one
family of Talbots.
Thanks again
Terry L. Mair
Mair's Photography
158 South 580 East
Midway, Utah 84049
435-654-3607
http://www.mairsphotography.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <WJhonson@aol.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 6:09 PM
Subject: Re: Talbot family


In a message dated 11/15/05 3:08:57 PM Pacific Standard Time,
terry@mairsphotography.com writes:

Can some one tell me, do the Talbots really descend from Richard I Duke
of
Normandy, or is this just another made up decent?

Yes some Talbots do.
Will Johnson



Gary Smith

Re: Talbot family

Legg inn av Gary Smith » 16 nov 2005 09:28:50

I understand that the name goes back to before the Conquest. The son of
Hugh TALBOTH, bishop of Lisieux, William TALBOTH, Sieur de Lisieux,
accompanied William the Conqueror to England with the contingent of knights.
It looks as if there may have been no family connection, nor descent from
the Conqueror. TALBOTH later became TALBOT.
The name shouldn't be confused with TAILLEBOIS, who also came over with
the Conqueror, the name being 'morphed' through the years into TALBOYS.



""Terry"" <terry@mairsphotography.com> wrote in message
news:00c301c5ea39$71ffeb80$6401a8c0@SATILLITE...
Can some one tell me, do the Talbots really descend from Richard I Duke of
Normandy, or is this just another made up decent?
Thanks
Terry L. Mair
Mair's Photography
158 South 580 East
Midway, Utah 84049
435-654-3607
http://www.mairsphotography.com

Gjest

Re: Talbot family

Legg inn av Gjest » 16 nov 2005 13:03:21

"Terry" wrote:
Can some one tell me, do the Talbots really descend from Richard I Duke of Normandy, or is this just another made up decent?
Thanks


I think we knew you were referring to a patrilineal descent!

TCP does not admit to a descent from the ducal line. Any such claims
appear to be imaginary.

MAR

Gjest

Re: Talbot family

Legg inn av Gjest » 16 nov 2005 14:07:57

mjcar@btinternet.com wrote:
"Terry" wrote:
Can some one tell me, do the Talbots really descend from Richard I Duke of Normandy, or is this just another made up decent?
Thanks


I think we knew you were referring to a patrilineal descent!

TCP does not admit to a descent from the ducal line. Any such claims
appear to be imaginary.

MAR

The Cliffords used to claim a similar descent, and no doubt others-
suffice to say, that it would be a well known genealogical phenomenon
if any family did have a male line from the present back to the dukes
of Normandy.

Terry

Re: Talbot family

Legg inn av Terry » 16 nov 2005 15:18:02

This is pretty much what I had expected, but THANK YOU to all who replied!
Terry L. Mair
Mair's Photography
158 South 580 East
Midway, Utah 84049
435-654-3607
http://www.mairsphotography.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <mvernonconnolly@yahoo.co.uk>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 6:07 AM
Subject: Re: Talbot family


mjcar@btinternet.com wrote:
"Terry" wrote:
Can some one tell me, do the Talbots really descend from Richard I Duke
of Normandy, or is this just another made up decent?
Thanks


I think we knew you were referring to a patrilineal descent!

TCP does not admit to a descent from the ducal line. Any such claims
appear to be imaginary.

MAR

The Cliffords used to claim a similar descent, and no doubt others-
suffice to say, that it would be a well known genealogical phenomenon
if any family did have a male line from the present back to the dukes
of Normandy.



Terry

Re: Talbot family

Legg inn av Terry » 16 nov 2005 16:00:02

So just one more question, if you don't mind, so have the Clare family
pretty much been disproved to go back to the Dukes of Normandy?
If so who is supposed to be the last of that family whom we know about?
Thanks again for the help
Terry L. Mair
Mair's Photography
158 South 580 East
Midway, Utah 84049
435-654-3607
http://www.mairsphotography.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <mvernonconnolly@yahoo.co.uk>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 6:07 AM
Subject: Re: Talbot family


mjcar@btinternet.com wrote:
"Terry" wrote:
Can some one tell me, do the Talbots really descend from Richard I Duke
of Normandy, or is this just another made up decent?
Thanks


I think we knew you were referring to a patrilineal descent!

TCP does not admit to a descent from the ducal line. Any such claims
appear to be imaginary.

MAR

The Cliffords used to claim a similar descent, and no doubt others-
suffice to say, that it would be a well known genealogical phenomenon
if any family did have a male line from the present back to the dukes
of Normandy.



Gjest

Re: Talbot family

Legg inn av Gjest » 16 nov 2005 16:31:51

"Terry" wrote:
So just one more question, if you don't mind, so have the Clare family
pretty much been disproved to go back to the Dukes of Normandy?
If so who is supposed to be the last of that family whom we know about?
Thanks again for the help
Terry L. Mair
Mair's Photography
158 South 580 East
Midway, Utah 84049
435-654-3607
http://www.mairsphotography.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <mvernonconnolly@yahoo.co.uk
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 6:07 AM
Subject: Re: Talbot family



mjcar@btinternet.com wrote:
"Terry" wrote:
Can some one tell me, do the Talbots really descend from Richard I Duke
of Normandy, or is this just another made up decent?
Thanks


I think we knew you were referring to a patrilineal descent!

TCP does not admit to a descent from the ducal line. Any such claims
appear to be imaginary.

MAR

The Cliffords used to claim a similar descent, and no doubt others-
suffice to say, that it would be a well known genealogical phenomenon
if any family did have a male line from the present back to the dukes
of Normandy.
The Clares are fine- but they don't continue to the present in the male

line. Or do they...?

Kevin Bradford

Re: Talbot family

Legg inn av Kevin Bradford » 16 nov 2005 16:45:02

The earlest known progenitor of the medieval Herefordshire Talbots was one Richard Talebot, Domesday tenant of Walter Giffard.

Best,
Kevin
Plantagenet Genealogy & Biography: http://home.earthlink.net/~plantagenet6 ... enet01.htm



-----Original Message-----
From: Terry <terry@mairsphotography.com>
Sent: Nov 15, 2005 8:30 PM
To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: Talbot family

Ok thanks
Not wanting to belabor this, I guess I should have been more precise, does
the family name Talbot come from one of Richards grand children? I know it
means something like hill or valley, so there are probably more then one
family of Talbots.
Thanks again
Terry L. Mair
Mair's Photography
158 South 580 East
Midway, Utah 84049
435-654-3607
http://www.mairsphotography.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <WJhonson@aol.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 6:09 PM
Subject: Re: Talbot family


In a message dated 11/15/05 3:08:57 PM Pacific Standard Time,
terry@mairsphotography.com writes:

Can some one tell me, do the Talbots really descend from Richard I Duke
of
Normandy, or is this just another made up decent?

Yes some Talbots do.
Will Johnson



Kevin Bradford

Re: Talbot family

Legg inn av Kevin Bradford » 16 nov 2005 16:55:01

Richard Fitz Gilbert de Clare's [ob. 1089-1090] ancestry includes Richard ["the Fearless"], duke of Normandy [ob. 996, Fecamp]. The latter is Clare's paternal great-grandfather.

Best,
Kevin
Plantagenet Genealogy & Biography: http://home.earthlink.net/~plantagenet6 ... enet01.htm

-----Original Message-----
From: Terry <terry@mairsphotography.com>
Sent: Nov 16, 2005 9:59 AM
To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: Talbot family

So just one more question, if you don't mind, so have the Clare family
pretty much been disproved to go back to the Dukes of Normandy?
If so who is supposed to be the last of that family whom we know about?
Thanks again for the help
Terry L. Mair
Mair's Photography
158 South 580 East
Midway, Utah 84049
435-654-3607
http://www.mairsphotography.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <mvernonconnolly@yahoo.co.uk>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 6:07 AM
Subject: Re: Talbot family


mjcar@btinternet.com wrote:
"Terry" wrote:
Can some one tell me, do the Talbots really descend from Richard I Duke
of Normandy, or is this just another made up decent?
Thanks


I think we knew you were referring to a patrilineal descent!

TCP does not admit to a descent from the ducal line. Any such claims
appear to be imaginary.

MAR

The Cliffords used to claim a similar descent, and no doubt others-
suffice to say, that it would be a well known genealogical phenomenon
if any family did have a male line from the present back to the dukes
of Normandy.



Tim Powys-Lybbe

Re: Talbot family

Legg inn av Tim Powys-Lybbe » 16 nov 2005 23:21:31

In message of 16 Nov, "Gary Smith" <garymarian@comcast.net> wrote:

I understand that the name goes back to before the Conquest. The
son of Hugh TALBOTH, bishop of Lisieux, William TALBOTH, Sieur de
Lisieux, accompanied William the Conqueror to England with the
contingent of knights.

I can find my copy of "My ancestors came with the Conqueror" by
Anthony J Camp so I can't check on any names but it makes it clear that
there are no more than 28 people for whom we have any certainty that
they actually did come over with said William.

See
http://www.sog.org.uk/acatalog/SoG_Orde ... s_135.html


--
Tim Powys-Lybbe                                          tim@powys.org
             For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org

Gjest

Re: Talbot family

Legg inn av Gjest » 17 nov 2005 11:16:54

Tim Powys-Lybbe wrote:
In message of 16 Nov, "Gary Smith" <garymarian@comcast.net> wrote:

I understand that the name goes back to before the Conquest. The
son of Hugh TALBOTH, bishop of Lisieux, William TALBOTH, Sieur de
Lisieux, accompanied William the Conqueror to England with the
contingent of knights.

I can find my copy of "My ancestors came with the Conqueror" by
Anthony J Camp so I can't check on any names but it makes it clear that
there are no more than 28 people for whom we have any certainty that
they actually did come over with said William.


Even the latest edition of Burke's, long-renowned for its fantastical
associations, starts the Talbot pedigree no earlier than the mid-12th
century.

MAR

Gjest

Re: Talbot family

Legg inn av Gjest » 18 nov 2005 00:35:02

In a message dated 17/11/2005 16:53:14 GMT Standard Time,
mjcar@btinternet.com writes:

Tim Powys-Lybbe wrote:
In message of 16 Nov, "Gary Smith" <garymarian@comcast.net> wrote:

I understand that the name goes back to before the Conquest. The
son of Hugh TALBOTH, bishop of Lisieux, William TALBOTH, Sieur de
Lisieux, accompanied William the Conqueror to England with the
contingent of knights.

I can find my copy of "My ancestors came with the Conqueror" by
Anthony J Camp so I can't check on any names but it makes it clear that
there are no more than 28 people for whom we have any certainty that
they actually did come over with said William.


MAR replied



Even the latest edition of Burke's, long-renowned for its fantastical
associations, starts the Talbot pedigree no earlier than the mid-12th
century.

MAR



<<<<<

There was a Richard Talebot, Domesday tenant in Essex and Bedfordshire.
Keats-Rohan's DP mentions him on page 368..

Adrian

Leo

Re: Talbot family

Legg inn av Leo » 18 nov 2005 00:49:03

My records on the descendants of the House of Normandy is not as complete as
I would like it but at present the last descendant in the male line I have
is Elizabeth FitzWalter who was born in 1430 and died before 22 August 1485.
She has a male line of descent via the de Clare family to Rollo of
Noirmandy.
Best wishes
Leo van de Pas


----- Original Message -----
From: <mvernonconnolly@yahoo.co.uk>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 2:31 AM
Subject: Re: Talbot family


"Terry" wrote:
So just one more question, if you don't mind, so have the Clare family
pretty much been disproved to go back to the Dukes of Normandy?
If so who is supposed to be the last of that family whom we know about?
Thanks again for the help
Terry L. Mair
Mair's Photography
158 South 580 East
Midway, Utah 84049
435-654-3607
http://www.mairsphotography.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <mvernonconnolly@yahoo.co.uk
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 6:07 AM
Subject: Re: Talbot family



mjcar@btinternet.com wrote:
"Terry" wrote:
Can some one tell me, do the Talbots really descend from Richard I
Duke
of Normandy, or is this just another made up decent?
Thanks


I think we knew you were referring to a patrilineal descent!

TCP does not admit to a descent from the ducal line. Any such claims
appear to be imaginary.

MAR

The Cliffords used to claim a similar descent, and no doubt others-
suffice to say, that it would be a well known genealogical phenomenon
if any family did have a male line from the present back to the dukes
of Normandy.
The Clares are fine- but they don't continue to the present in the male
line. Or do they...?


Dolly Ziegler

Re: Talbot family

Legg inn av Dolly Ziegler » 18 nov 2005 02:48:02

On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 ADRIANCHANNING@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 17/11/2005 16:53:14 GMT Standard Time,
mjcar@btinternet.com writes:

Tim Powys-Lybbe wrote:
In message of 16 Nov, "Gary Smith" <garymarian@comcast.net> wrote:

I understand that the name goes back to before the Conquest. The
son of Hugh TALBOTH, bishop of Lisieux, William TALBOTH, Sieur de
Lisieux, accompanied William the Conqueror to England with the
contingent of knights.

I can find my copy of "My ancestors came with the Conqueror" by
Anthony J Camp so I can't check on any names but it makes it clear that
there are no more than 28 people for whom we have any certainty that
they actually did come over with said William.

MAR replied



Even the latest edition of Burke's, long-renowned for its fantastical
associations, starts the Talbot pedigree no earlier than the mid-12th
century.

MAR



There was a Richard Talebot, Domesday tenant in Essex and Bedfordshire.
Keats-Rohan's DP mentions him on page 368..

Adrian

Tim mentioned _My ancestors came with the conqueror_. The index lists
hundreds of people "said to have been" at the Battle of Hastings according
to six versions of the Battle Abbey Roll, or the Falaise Roll or Dives
Roll.

Geoffrey H. White listed 19 Companions known to have fought at
Hastings.

No Talbot, Talboth, Talebot, Tolbot, or variations thereof, in the lengthy
index list or White's list.

Cheers, Dolly in Maryland USA

Kevin Bradford

Re: Talbot family

Legg inn av Kevin Bradford » 18 nov 2005 03:26:02

-----Original Message-----
From: ADRIANCHANNING@aol.com
Sent: Nov 17, 2005 6:33 PM
To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: Talbot family

In a message dated 17/11/2005 16:53:14 GMT Standard Time,
mjcar@btinternet.com writes:

Tim Powys-Lybbe wrote:
In message of 16 Nov, "Gary Smith" <garymarian@comcast.net> wrote:

I understand that the name goes back to before the Conquest. The
son of Hugh TALBOTH, bishop of Lisieux, William TALBOTH, Sieur de
Lisieux, accompanied William the Conqueror to England with the
contingent of knights.

I can find my copy of "My ancestors came with the Conqueror" by
Anthony J Camp so I can't check on any names but it makes it clear that
there are no more than 28 people for whom we have any certainty that
they actually did come over with said William.


MAR replied



Even the latest edition of Burke's, long-renowned for its fantastical
associations, starts the Talbot pedigree no earlier than the mid-12th
century.

MAR



<<<<<

There was a Richard Talebot, Domesday tenant in Essex and Bedfordshire.
Keats-Rohan's DP mentions him on page 368..

Adrian


This Richard is the ancestor of the Herefordshire Talbots, inc. John Talbot, earl of Shrewsbury [ob. 1453, Castillon].

Best,
Kevin
Plantagenet Genealogy & Biography: http://home.earthlink.net/~plantagenet6 ... enet01.htm

Dolly Ziegler

Valingford, Wallingford in Battle Abbey Roll, 2 versions

Legg inn av Dolly Ziegler » 18 nov 2005 03:27:02

Hello to the list. Never noticed this before -- _My ancestors came with
the Conqueror_, Anthony J. Camp [corrected reprint 1990], lists Valingford
"=Wallingford" in two versions of Battle Abbey Roll, one by Raphael
Holinshed and another by the Duchess of Cleveland [Vol. 3.]

Does anyone on the list happen to have dealt with these names in this
early time frame?

(I'm not asking for lookups -- I can do those at Library of Congress in
due time.) Thanks, Dolly in Maryland

Gjest

Re: Talbot family

Legg inn av Gjest » 18 nov 2005 15:09:02

I wrote,

There was a Richard Talebot, Domesday tenant in Essex and Bedfordshire.
Keats-Rohan's DP mentions him on page 368..

Adrian

Kevin wrote;
This Richard is the ancestor of the Herefordshire Talbots, inc. John Talbot,

earl of Shrewsbury [ob. 1453, Castillon].
<<<<<<

I'm not sure if the Domesday tenant Richard Talebot has been proven to be
ancestor of the Talbots of Herefordshire. Keats-Rohan's DP states that the
Domesday tenant was a tenant of Walter Giffard of whom the family were vassals
in Normandy. In 1166 a second Richard Talbot held 3 fees of the honour of
Giffard in co Bucks. Keats-Rohan's DD, page 1123, gives more details of this 2nd
Richard Talebot, and in 1150s he occures in Herefordshire, etc., but she
does not stated if or how the two were connected, nor, for that matter, any
descendants of the second Richard Talebot, although a fee he held in Linton was
subsequently held by a Gilbert Talbot


Adrian

Todd A. Farmerie

Re: Valingford, Wallingford in Battle Abbey Roll, 2 versions

Legg inn av Todd A. Farmerie » 19 nov 2005 02:01:55

Dolly Ziegler wrote:
Hello to the list. Never noticed this before -- _My ancestors came with
the Conqueror_, Anthony J. Camp [corrected reprint 1990], lists
Valingford "=Wallingford" in two versions of Battle Abbey Roll, one by
Raphael Holinshed and another by the Duchess of Cleveland [Vol. 3.]

Does anyone on the list happen to have dealt with these names in this
early time frame?

I have to say, this seems unlikely. Wallingford has every appearance of
being an English toponymic surname, derived from a so-named English town
(there is one in Oxford), and not a Norman one. Thus no one
accompanying William would have had this name (although it could have
been adopted generations later). This _can_ be deceptive, given the way
some of the Norman toponyms changed in form after the Conquest, but I
suspect that this attribution is late and without historical authenticity.

taf

Dolly Ziegler

Re: Valingford, Wallingford in Battle Abbey Roll, 2 versions

Legg inn av Dolly Ziegler » 19 nov 2005 03:38:02

On Fri, 18 Nov 2005, Todd A. Farmerie wrote:

Dolly Ziegler wrote:
Hello to the list. Never noticed this before -- _My ancestors came with the
Conqueror_, Anthony J. Camp [corrected reprint 1990], lists Valingford
"=Wallingford" in two versions of Battle Abbey Roll, one by Raphael
Holinshed and another by the Duchess of Cleveland [Vol. 3.]

Does anyone on the list happen to have dealt with these names in this early
time frame?

I have to say, this seems unlikely. Wallingford has every appearance of
being an English toponymic surname, derived from a so-named English town
(there is one in Oxford), and not a Norman one. Thus no one accompanying
William would have had this name (although it could have been adopted
generations later). This _can_ be deceptive, given the way some of the
Norman toponyms changed in form after the Conquest, but I suspect that this
attribution is late and without historical authenticity.

Thanks, Todd. Apparently the Honour of Wallingford was in Hampshire, area
of Nether Wallop. I didn't know about the town in Oxford. "Domesday book
online" mentions Wigot of Wallingford, "related to Edward the Confessor.
His Butler. Sheriff of Oxon."

Another read of Camp's index makes me suspect that the Duchess is the one
who equated Valingford with Wallingford. (The = mark is in the index.)

I do appreciate your comments -- saves me chasing that particular dead
end. Cheers, Dolly

Kevin Bradford

Re: Talbot family

Legg inn av Kevin Bradford » 19 nov 2005 06:26:02

-----Original Message-----
From: ADRIANCHANNING@aol.com
Sent: Nov 18, 2005 9:07 AM
To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: Talbot family

I wrote,

There was a Richard Talebot, Domesday tenant in Essex and Bedfordshire.
Keats-Rohan's DP mentions him on page 368..

Adrian

Kevin wrote;
This Richard is the ancestor of the Herefordshire Talbots, inc. John Talbot,

earl of Shrewsbury [ob. 1453, Castillon].
<<<<<<

I'm not sure if the Domesday tenant Richard Talebot has been proven to be
ancestor of the Talbots of Herefordshire. Keats-Rohan's DP states that the
Domesday tenant was a tenant of Walter Giffard of whom the family were vassals
in Normandy. In 1166 a second Richard Talbot held 3 fees of the honour of
Giffard in co Bucks. Keats-Rohan's DD, page 1123, gives more details of this 2nd
Richard Talebot, and in 1150s he occures in Herefordshire, etc., but she
does not stated if or how the two were connected, nor, for that matter, any
descendants of the second Richard Talebot, although a fee he held in Linton was
subsequently held by a Gilbert Talbot

Adrian


Dear Adrian,

The Gilbert Talbot who obtained a new charter of Linton (in Herefordshire) from King Richard I in 1190, is found as a son of Richard Talebot who held the earlier fee [CP 12/1:607; DD 1123 as "Richard II" Talebot]. This "Richard II" Talebot (the nominal has been confusedly assigned by Keats-Rohan) is proven as the son of Hugh via the latter's grant to Beaubec Abbey, confirmed by the same Richard "II" Talebot in 1153 [DD 1123; Dugdale's Baronage 1:325]. That this same Richard "II" held 3 fees of the honor of Giffard [ibid] provides significant evidence of his connection to his grandfather, the first Richard Talebot (Domesday tenant) in this line. For the previous generation from Hugh, Dugdale makes the assertion that this man, Hugh, is likely the brother of Geoffrey, and that both are sons of Richard Talebot, temp. William Conq. The logic of this assertion can be seen from the Giffard fees already cited. Loyd, in his Origins of Some Anglo-Norman Families, states "the exac!
t connexion [sic] of the family of the earls of Shrewsbury with these Talbots [those at Beaubec, etc.] has not at present been established by satisfactory evidence, though such a connexion [sic] is in the highest degree probable" [Origins 100]. While he was on the right track, Loyd seems to have missed the significance of the Beaubec Abbey grant.

Best,
Kevin

Plantagenet Genealogy & Biography: http://home.earthlink.net/~plantagenet6 ... enet01.htm

Gjest

Re: Talbot family

Legg inn av Gjest » 19 nov 2005 14:41:01

Adrian wrote
There was a Richard Talebot, Domesday tenant in Essex and Bedfordshire.

Keats-Rohan's DP mentions him on page 368..
<<<<<<

Kevin wrote;
This Richard is the ancestor of the Herefordshire Talbots, inc. John

Talbot,
earl of Shrewsbury [ob. 1453, Castillon].
<<<<<<

Adrian wrote
I'm not sure if the Domesday tenant Richard Talebot has been proven to be

ancestor of the Talbots of Herefordshire. Keats-Rohan's DP states that the

Domesday tenant was a tenant of Walter Giffard of whom the family were
vassals
in Normandy. In 1166 a second Richard Talbot held 3 fees of the honour of
Giffard in co Bucks. Keats-Rohan's DD, page 1123, gives more details of
this 2nd
Richard Talebot, and in 1150s he occures in Herefordshire, etc., but she
does not stated if or how the two were connected, nor, for that matter, any
descendants of the second Richard Talebot, although a fee he held in Linton
was
subsequently held by a Gilbert Talbot
<<<<<


Kevin wrote;
The Gilbert Talbot who obtained a new charter of Linton (in Herefordshire)

from King Richard I in 1190, is found as a son of Richard Talebot who held the
earlier fee [CP 12/1:607; DD 1123 as "Richard II" Talebot]. This "Richard
II" Talebot (the nominal has been confusedly assigned by Keats-Rohan) is
proven as the son of Hugh via the latter's grant to Beaubec Abbey, confirmed by
the same Richard "II" Talebot in 1153 [DD 1123; Dugdale's Baronage 1:325].
That this same Richard "II" held 3 fees of the honor of Giffard [ibid] provides
significant evidence of his connection to his grandfather, the first Richard
Talebot (Domesday tenant) in this line. For the previous generation from
Hugh, Dugdale makes the assertion that this man, Hugh, is likely the brother of
Geoffrey, and that both are sons of Richard Talebot, temp. William Conq. The
logic of this assertion can be seen from the Giffard fees already cited.
Loyd, in his Origins of Some Anglo-Norman Families, states "the exact connexion
[sic] of the family of the earls of Shrewsbury with these Talbots [those at
Beaubec, etc.] has not at present been established by satisfactory evidence,
though such a connexion [sic] is in the highest degree probable" [Origins
100]. While he was on the right track, Loyd seems to have missed the
significance of the Beaubec Abbey grant.
<<<<

Dear Kevin,

Thanks for the further details which seems convincing.

By the way I had a trawl through the archives and came across an interesting
post from Peter Stewart (Subject: First Talbot/s of Linton ... dated
11/08/03) in which he states that {Quote} Hugo Talbot was actually recorded holding
the family's part of Linton during this period - see _Red Book of the
Exchequer_, edited by Hubert Hall (London, 1896) part II p. 679, under 1155-6 ...
{unquote.} Peter then states that this is at variance with {Quote} The Great
Rolls of the Pipe for the Second, Third and Fourth Years of the Reign of King
Henry the Second, 1155-1158_, edited by Joseph Hunter (London, 1844) p. 51:
"In terris datis Hugoni de Longo Campo et Ricardo [sic] Talebot in Linton' et
Wilton' xxxiii li. bl." {unquote}. Peter suggests that the Red Book of the
Exchequer is in error - I don't know if this has since been cleared up.

Regards,
Adrian

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