Also ancestral to the Bourchiers was the Munchensi family of Stansted,
Essex.
Morant says:
"Hubert, son of Warine de Munchensi, gave Stansted to a son of his who
had issue - Roger. This latter was a minor 25 Henry III and died 33
Henry III; his sister Joan married Walter de Colchester - their only
daughter Helen maried John 'de Burser' [i.e. Sir John Bourchier, father
of Robert, 1st Baron Bourchier]".
I read this to indicate that Roger and Joan de Munchensi were
grandchildren of Hubert, son of Warin de Munchensi. Furthermore, I
understand that this Hubert is to be identified with the son of Warin
de Munchensi and Alice, daughter of Payn FitzJohn.
Can anyone confirm this?
MAR
Hubert de Munchensi of Stansted
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Gjest
Re: Hubert de Munchensi of Stansted
Burke's Extinct & Dormant Peerage also states that Robert Bourchier's
mother, Helen de Colchester, was niece "maternally" of Roger de
Munchensi, and thus acquired Stansted manor.
CP (Bourchier) confirms that Helen de Colchester was daughter & heiress
of Walter de Colchester of Stansted.
However, William Holman in his history of Halstead, Essex, says that:
"Sir John de Burser married Helene, daughter & heir od Walter de
Colchester, and Joan his wife, daughter and coheir to Hubert de
Monchensi and Agatha his wife" [so far, so good: this would add the
name of the intervening Munchensi generation]
"Roger de Monchensi, son and heir of John (sic), son of Roger (sic) de
Monchensi, by his charter 20 Edward I, releases unto John de Burser all
his right and claim in and to one moiety of the whole manor of
Stansted, which said moiety the said John de Burser was then in
possession of. The seal of this Roger is an hart or stag current,
round the edge Sigill Rogeri de Monte Caniso".
Furthermore, in Foundations Vol 1 No 3, Cecil Humphrey-Smith says:
"John de Bourchier married Helen, daughter and heiress of Walter de
Colchester or de Lyston. Her mother was Joan, daughter (sic) of Roger
de Munchensi of Stansted."
Robert Bourchier's IPM makes it clear that he died seised of the manor
of Stansted [Cal. IPMs Vol 9 #241, p 241, writ 18 May 23 Edward III].
mother, Helen de Colchester, was niece "maternally" of Roger de
Munchensi, and thus acquired Stansted manor.
CP (Bourchier) confirms that Helen de Colchester was daughter & heiress
of Walter de Colchester of Stansted.
However, William Holman in his history of Halstead, Essex, says that:
"Sir John de Burser married Helene, daughter & heir od Walter de
Colchester, and Joan his wife, daughter and coheir to Hubert de
Monchensi and Agatha his wife" [so far, so good: this would add the
name of the intervening Munchensi generation]
"Roger de Monchensi, son and heir of John (sic), son of Roger (sic) de
Monchensi, by his charter 20 Edward I, releases unto John de Burser all
his right and claim in and to one moiety of the whole manor of
Stansted, which said moiety the said John de Burser was then in
possession of. The seal of this Roger is an hart or stag current,
round the edge Sigill Rogeri de Monte Caniso".
Furthermore, in Foundations Vol 1 No 3, Cecil Humphrey-Smith says:
"John de Bourchier married Helen, daughter and heiress of Walter de
Colchester or de Lyston. Her mother was Joan, daughter (sic) of Roger
de Munchensi of Stansted."
Robert Bourchier's IPM makes it clear that he died seised of the manor
of Stansted [Cal. IPMs Vol 9 #241, p 241, writ 18 May 23 Edward III].
-
Sutliff
Re: Hubert de Munchensi of Stansted
I believe you can find confirmation of some of this in Keats-Rohan's books
Domesday People and Domesday Descendants. The latter is on loan so I cannot
cofirm this, but the former does have something on the Montecanisio family.
HS
<mjcar@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:1131907910.199138.244580@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Domesday People and Domesday Descendants. The latter is on loan so I cannot
cofirm this, but the former does have something on the Montecanisio family.
HS
<mjcar@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:1131907910.199138.244580@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Also ancestral to the Bourchiers was the Munchensi family of Stansted,
Essex.
Morant says:
"Hubert, son of Warine de Munchensi, gave Stansted to a son of his who
had issue - Roger. This latter was a minor 25 Henry III and died 33
Henry III; his sister Joan married Walter de Colchester - their only
daughter Helen maried John 'de Burser' [i.e. Sir John Bourchier, father
of Robert, 1st Baron Bourchier]".
I read this to indicate that Roger and Joan de Munchensi were
grandchildren of Hubert, son of Warin de Munchensi. Furthermore, I
understand that this Hubert is to be identified with the son of Warin
de Munchensi and Alice, daughter of Payn FitzJohn.
Can anyone confirm this?
MAR
-
Gjest
Re: Hubert de Munchensi of Stansted
Sutliff schrieb:
Many thanks for the tip - I shall have a look at these when next I am
at the SoG. It's a bit of a tangled web at present.
Regards
Michael
I believe you can find confirmation of some of this in Keats-Rohan's books
Domesday People and Domesday Descendants. The latter is on loan so I cannot
cofirm this, but the former does have something on the Montecanisio family.
HS
Many thanks for the tip - I shall have a look at these when next I am
at the SoG. It's a bit of a tangled web at present.
Regards
Michael
-
Gjest
Re: Hubert de Munchensi of Stansted
Gordon Kirkemo has very kindly provided me with the details from
Keats-Rohan's Domesday Descendants:
(pp. 593-594):
de Montcanisy, Filius Huberti
Son of Hubert II de Montcanisy. Held a fee of the bishop of Ely in
1166.
In 1185 the Rotuli de Dominabus (p. 64) referred to the land in
Stratford
St. Mary, Suffolk, which had been held by Hubert de Montcanisy. It had
been
an escheat in the custody of the bishop of Ely. Stratford was in the
honour
of Rayleigh, forfeited by Henry of Essex in 1163. The entry in the
Rot. De
Dom. Suggest that Hubert was dead in 1185.
de Montcanisy, Gaufrid
Son of Hubert I and Muriel de Valognes.
de Montcanisy, Hubert II
Son of Hubert I de Montcanisy by his first wife. Occurs in the 1129/30
Pipe
Roll. His unnamed son, presumably a minor, was tenant of half a fee of
the
bishop of Ely in 1166.
de Montcanisy, Hugo
Son of Hubert I de Montcanisy and Muriel de Valognes (Mon. Ang. iv,
142).
Father of Stephen and Hubert.
de Montcanisy, Matildis Uxor Rogeri
Wife of Roger I de Montcanisy.
de Montcanisy, Roger
Son of Hubert I de Montcanisy and Muriel de Valognes. By his wife
Matilda
he was father of Roger II and Joan, wife of Walter of Colchester.
de Montcanisy, Stephan
Son and heir of Hugh fitz Hubert I de Montcanisy. Occurs from c.1160.
This places the family of Joan de Colchester.
Many thanks, Gordon.
Kind regards
Michael
Keats-Rohan's Domesday Descendants:
(pp. 593-594):
de Montcanisy, Filius Huberti
Son of Hubert II de Montcanisy. Held a fee of the bishop of Ely in
1166.
In 1185 the Rotuli de Dominabus (p. 64) referred to the land in
Stratford
St. Mary, Suffolk, which had been held by Hubert de Montcanisy. It had
been
an escheat in the custody of the bishop of Ely. Stratford was in the
honour
of Rayleigh, forfeited by Henry of Essex in 1163. The entry in the
Rot. De
Dom. Suggest that Hubert was dead in 1185.
de Montcanisy, Gaufrid
Son of Hubert I and Muriel de Valognes.
de Montcanisy, Hubert II
Son of Hubert I de Montcanisy by his first wife. Occurs in the 1129/30
Pipe
Roll. His unnamed son, presumably a minor, was tenant of half a fee of
the
bishop of Ely in 1166.
de Montcanisy, Hugo
Son of Hubert I de Montcanisy and Muriel de Valognes (Mon. Ang. iv,
142).
Father of Stephen and Hubert.
de Montcanisy, Matildis Uxor Rogeri
Wife of Roger I de Montcanisy.
de Montcanisy, Roger
Son of Hubert I de Montcanisy and Muriel de Valognes. By his wife
Matilda
he was father of Roger II and Joan, wife of Walter of Colchester.
de Montcanisy, Stephan
Son and heir of Hugh fitz Hubert I de Montcanisy. Occurs from c.1160.
This places the family of Joan de Colchester.
Many thanks, Gordon.
Kind regards
Michael
-
Gordon and Jane Kirkemo
RE: Hubert de Munchensi of Stansted
Michael,
Here is what K-R reports in DD under several Montcanisy entries (pp.
593-594):
de Montcanisy, Filius Huberti
Son of Hubert II de Montcanisy. Held a fee of the bishop of Ely in 1166.
In 1185 the Rotuli de Dominabus (p. 64) referred to the land in Stratford
St. Mary, Suffolk, which had been held by Hubert de Montcanisy. It had been
an escheat in the custody of the bishop of Ely. Stratford was in the honour
of Rayleigh, forfeited by Henry of Essex in 1163. The entry in the Rot. De
Dom. Suggest that Hubert was dead in 1185.
de Montcanisy, Gaufrid
Son of Hubert I and Muriel de Valognes.
de Montcanisy, Hubert II
Son of Hubert I de Montcanisy by his first wife. Occurs in the 1129/30 Pipe
Roll. His unnamed son, presumably a minor, was tenant of half a fee of the
bishop of Ely in 1166.
de Montcanisy, Hugo
Son of Hubert I de Montcanisy and Muriel de Valognes (Mon. Ang. iv, 142).
Father of Stephen and Hubert.
de Montcanisy, Matildis Uxor Rogeri
Wife of Roger I de Montcanisy.
de Montcanisy, Roger
Son of Hubert I de Montcanisy and Muriel de Valognes. By his wife Matilda
he was father of Roger II and Joan, wife of Walter of Colchester.
de Montcanisy, Stephan
Son and heir of Hugh fitz Hubert I de Montcanisy. Occurs from c.1160.
I hope this is helpful.
Sincerely,
Gordon Kirkemo
-----Original Message-----
From: mjcar@btinternet.com [mailto:mjcar@btinternet.com]
Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 11:25 AM
To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: Hubert de Munchensi of Stansted
Sutliff schrieb:
Many thanks for the tip - I shall have a look at these when next I am
at the SoG. It's a bit of a tangled web at present.
Regards
Michael
Here is what K-R reports in DD under several Montcanisy entries (pp.
593-594):
de Montcanisy, Filius Huberti
Son of Hubert II de Montcanisy. Held a fee of the bishop of Ely in 1166.
In 1185 the Rotuli de Dominabus (p. 64) referred to the land in Stratford
St. Mary, Suffolk, which had been held by Hubert de Montcanisy. It had been
an escheat in the custody of the bishop of Ely. Stratford was in the honour
of Rayleigh, forfeited by Henry of Essex in 1163. The entry in the Rot. De
Dom. Suggest that Hubert was dead in 1185.
de Montcanisy, Gaufrid
Son of Hubert I and Muriel de Valognes.
de Montcanisy, Hubert II
Son of Hubert I de Montcanisy by his first wife. Occurs in the 1129/30 Pipe
Roll. His unnamed son, presumably a minor, was tenant of half a fee of the
bishop of Ely in 1166.
de Montcanisy, Hugo
Son of Hubert I de Montcanisy and Muriel de Valognes (Mon. Ang. iv, 142).
Father of Stephen and Hubert.
de Montcanisy, Matildis Uxor Rogeri
Wife of Roger I de Montcanisy.
de Montcanisy, Roger
Son of Hubert I de Montcanisy and Muriel de Valognes. By his wife Matilda
he was father of Roger II and Joan, wife of Walter of Colchester.
de Montcanisy, Stephan
Son and heir of Hugh fitz Hubert I de Montcanisy. Occurs from c.1160.
I hope this is helpful.
Sincerely,
Gordon Kirkemo
-----Original Message-----
From: mjcar@btinternet.com [mailto:mjcar@btinternet.com]
Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 11:25 AM
To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: Hubert de Munchensi of Stansted
Sutliff schrieb:
I believe you can find confirmation of some of this in Keats-Rohan's books
Domesday People and Domesday Descendants. The latter is on loan so I
cannot
cofirm this, but the former does have something on the Montecanisio
family.
HS
Many thanks for the tip - I shall have a look at these when next I am
at the SoG. It's a bit of a tangled web at present.
Regards
Michael