Parentage of Joan de Assheton, wife of Robert Davenport

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Mark Allen

Parentage of Joan de Assheton, wife of Robert Davenport

Legg inn av Mark Allen » 13 nov 2005 10:15:50

Can anyone throw any light on the parentage of JOAN DE ASSHETON, the wife of
ROBERT DAVENPORT of Bramhall (Bromhale) in Cheshire?

Ormerod quotes a contemporary document thus...

"20 Ric II. Sir John de Assheton knt, Hugh de Aren, and others enter in to a
recog (March 14 1397), in 120 marks to John de Davenport of Bromhale,
touching an intended marriage between Robert de Davenport, son of the
recognizee, and Joan, daughter of the said John de Assheton; whereby the
said John de Davenport agreed that if Joan should die issueless within the 3
years after the nuptuals, he should pay her father £40 of the the said 120
marks; and should the said Robert die as aforesaid, his father should return
only £20. A counter recog was also enrolled with this in Recog Ro 20 & 21 R.
II. mm 5, 2"

I have seen other sources which claim to quote BLG 1886 giving her mother as
MARGARET DE LEGH. However I don't have access to an 1886 edition of BLG to
confirm this.

The problem is that the Sir JOHN DE ASSHETON who married MARGARET DE LEGH
was almost certainly dead long before 20 Ric II (1396/97), as he was called
to Westminster in 1324, knighted in 1342 and survived by his wife. His son
or grandson, both also Sir John, would seem to be more likely going by the
dates concerned.

Many thanks
Mark

Gjest

Re: Parentage of Joan de Assheton, wife of Robert Davenport

Legg inn av Gjest » 13 nov 2005 11:02:41

Mark Allen schrieb:

Can anyone throw any light on the parentage of JOAN DE ASSHETON, the wife of
ROBERT DAVENPORT of Bramhall (Bromhale) in Cheshire?

Ormerod quotes a contemporary document thus...

"20 Ric II. Sir John de Assheton knt, Hugh de Aren, and others enter in to a
recog (March 14 1397), in 120 marks to John de Davenport of Bromhale,
touching an intended marriage between Robert de Davenport, son of the
recognizee, and Joan, daughter of the said John de Assheton; whereby the
said John de Davenport agreed that if Joan should die issueless within the 3
years after the nuptuals, he should pay her father £40 of the the said 120
marks; and should the said Robert die as aforesaid, his father should return
only £20. A counter recog was also enrolled with this in Recog Ro 20 & 21 R.
II. mm 5, 2"

I have seen other sources which claim to quote BLG 1886 giving her mother as
MARGARET DE LEGH. However I don't have access to an 1886 edition of BLG to
confirm this.

The problem is that the Sir JOHN DE ASSHETON who married MARGARET DE LEGH
was almost certainly dead long before 20 Ric II (1396/97), as he was called
to Westminster in 1324, knighted in 1342 and survived by his wife. His son
or grandson, both also Sir John, would seem to be more likely going by the
dates concerned.

Mark

This is what Stirnet has apparently extracted from Burke's Extinct
Peerage and BLG:

http://www.stirnet.com/HTML/genie/briti ... heton1.htm

(Possibly this is one of the sources you mention as stating Joan's
mother was Margaret de Legh).

Given that this stemma suggests that the husband of Margaret Legh was
grandson of another man of the same name, flourishing at the time you
mention (Edward II), it would be interesting to know the references for
your statement that Margaret's husband was the Sir John knighted in
1342.

Your position does appear to be consistent with Roskell et al in HoP
1386-1421: vol I p 76 states that Sir John Assheton, whose daughter
Joan married John Davenport, was born c1354, son of John Assheton (d
c1360) by his wife Margaret, daughter of Robert del Leigh of Adlington.
HoP states that Joan's mother was this Sir John's first wife, Joan,
daughter of William Radcliffe of Smithills, Lancs. Various references
are given, including the Vis. Cheshire (Harl. Soc Pub xviii) and VCH
Lancs vol IV p 341.

Regards

Michael

Mark Allen

Re: Parentage of Joan de Assheton, wife of Robert Davenport

Legg inn av Mark Allen » 13 nov 2005 12:38:01

Thanks for the prompt reply Michael.

My source for stating that John (who married Margaret Legh) was knighted in
1342 is Burkes Peerage (107th ed. under the CLITHEROE pedigree). It also
gives his death as c1360 consistant with HoP. My edition of BEB (2nd ed
1844) says he was in Parliament 12 Ric II, but this undoubtably has him
confused with his son that appears in your citation below.

The HoP entry stating that Joan was the the grandaughter (rather than
daughter) of Sir John and Margaret Legh certainly seems to make more sense.
There is nothing to help us in the Visitation of Cheshire 1580 (Harleian
soc), and I dont have a copy of VCH Lancs.

Could I just be cheeky and ask you to double check that the HoP entry gives
her husband as John (rather than Robert) Davenport please.

Many thanks
Mark

<mjcar@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:1131876161.229538.257950@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...

Mark Allen schrieb:

Can anyone throw any light on the parentage of JOAN DE ASSHETON, the wife
of
ROBERT DAVENPORT of Bramhall (Bromhale) in Cheshire?

Ormerod quotes a contemporary document thus...

"20 Ric II. Sir John de Assheton knt, Hugh de Aren, and others enter in to
a
recog (March 14 1397), in 120 marks to John de Davenport of Bromhale,
touching an intended marriage between Robert de Davenport, son of the
recognizee, and Joan, daughter of the said John de Assheton; whereby the
said John de Davenport agreed that if Joan should die issueless within the
3
years after the nuptuals, he should pay her father £40 of the the said 120
marks; and should the said Robert die as aforesaid, his father should
return
only £20. A counter recog was also enrolled with this in Recog Ro 20 & 21
R.
II. mm 5, 2"

I have seen other sources which claim to quote BLG 1886 giving her mother
as
MARGARET DE LEGH. However I don't have access to an 1886 edition of BLG to
confirm this.

The problem is that the Sir JOHN DE ASSHETON who married MARGARET DE LEGH
was almost certainly dead long before 20 Ric II (1396/97), as he was
called
to Westminster in 1324, knighted in 1342 and survived by his wife. His son
or grandson, both also Sir John, would seem to be more likely going by the
dates concerned.

Mark

This is what Stirnet has apparently extracted from Burke's Extinct
Peerage and BLG:

http://www.stirnet.com/HTML/genie/briti ... heton1.htm

(Possibly this is one of the sources you mention as stating Joan's
mother was Margaret de Legh).

Given that this stemma suggests that the husband of Margaret Legh was
grandson of another man of the same name, flourishing at the time you
mention (Edward II), it would be interesting to know the references for
your statement that Margaret's husband was the Sir John knighted in
1342.

Your position does appear to be consistent with Roskell et al in HoP
1386-1421: vol I p 76 states that Sir John Assheton, whose daughter
Joan married John Davenport, was born c1354, son of John Assheton (d
c1360) by his wife Margaret, daughter of Robert del Leigh of Adlington.
HoP states that Joan's mother was this Sir John's first wife, Joan,
daughter of William Radcliffe of Smithills, Lancs. Various references
are given, including the Vis. Cheshire (Harl. Soc Pub xviii) and VCH
Lancs vol IV p 341.

Regards

Michael

Gjest

Re: Parentage of Joan de Assheton, wife of Robert Davenport

Legg inn av Gjest » 13 nov 2005 13:52:17

Mark Allen schrieb:
Could I just be cheeky and ask you to double check that the HoP entry gives
her husband as John (rather than Robert) Davenport please.

Of course. HoP says of Sir John Assheton (c1354-c1398) that he was MP
for Lancs, 1382, 1388 & 1390, and JP from 1384. His father sought to
avoid being made a knight in 1346, and died about 1360. His mother,
Margaret, remarried to William Radcliffe of Todmorden, whose kinswoman
the younger John presumably married. It adds:

"In March 1397 he married his daughter Joan to the son of the
influential Cheshire landowner, John Davenport; the two men exhanged
mutual securities of 120 marks."

So, it was my initial mis-reading that married Joan to John Davenport;
in fact, Roskell et al have her married to John Davenport's son, whom
they do not name.

Regards, Michael

Mark Allen

Re: Parentage of Joan de Assheton, wife of Robert Davenport

Legg inn av Mark Allen » 13 nov 2005 13:58:36

Thanks very much Michael

Gjest

Re: Parentage of Joan de Assheton, wife of Robert Davenport

Legg inn av Gjest » 13 nov 2005 20:23:25

mjcar@btinternet.com schrieb:

HoP states that Joan's mother was this Sir John's first wife, Joan,
daughter of William Radcliffe of Smithills, Lancs. Various references
are given, including the Vis. Cheshire (Harl. Soc Pub xviii) and VCH
Lancs vol IV p 341.

Mark

HoP (1386-1421) Vol 4 gives some further details on the Radcliffes of
Smithills:

(p 162) Sir Ralph Radcliffe of Smithills, MP for Lancs in 1397 and
1404, was son of William Radcliffe of Blackburn and Smithills (d c1369)
by Katherine, daughter and coheir of Adam Norleigh of Pemberton. Sir
Ralph died in 1406.

Presumably Joan Radcliffe who married Sir John de Assheton was Sir
Ralph's sister.

Again, VCH Lancs, vol IV p 127 is cited, so it may be worth your while
accessing a copy.

Kind regards

Michael

Mark Allen

Re: Parentage of Joan de Assheton, wife of Robert Davenport

Legg inn av Mark Allen » 14 nov 2005 07:11:25

Thanks once again Michael, I shall have to track down a copy of VCH Lancs...

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