Ramiro I, king of Aragon

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maria emma escobar

Ramiro I, king of Aragon

Legg inn av maria emma escobar » 12 nov 2005 09:32:02

Francisco Tavares de Almeyda wrote:
""But Fernando's position was peculiar
because he inherited Castile from his mother (Garcia being son of
Sancho's 1st marriage and not of Munia of Castile) so he was a""

This is not exact. García was, like Fernando, Gonzalo and their sisters, son of Sancho and Munia- Mayor of Castilla. Sancho and Munia were already married in 1.010, as we can see in the documents, for example in San Millán charts. García was born in 1.014-15 and Fernando probably in 1.016. Ramiro probably was born when his father was still unmarried.
Fernando inherited Castilla from his mother and Gonzalo inherited Ribagorza and Sobrarbe also from his mother, who had inherite this countries from an aunt without children.

There is a new work about García and his time:

"García Sánchez III "el de Najera", un rey y un reino en la europa del siglo XI."
XV Semana de Estudios medievalaes. Nájera, Tricio y San Millán de la Cogolla 2004. Instituo de Estudios Riojanos. Logroño, 2.005







---------------------------------

Correo Yahoo!
Comprueba qué es nuevo, aquí
http://correo.yahoo.es

Gjest

Re: Ramiro I, king of Aragon

Legg inn av Gjest » 12 nov 2005 12:29:19

You are quite right. My focus was in Atapuerca and I repeated - for the
2nd time in this list - an error of Jiri Louda & Michael Maclagan's
'Heraldry of the Royal families of Europe'.
I didn't know the book you mentioned but I thought Garcia was born
before 1014-15 and more probably 1010-12 because he seems to confirm
the donation of Ventosa to San Millán de la Cogolla in 1020 (March,
15th):
" ...Ego Sancius rex, que hec fieri iussi, ... ... Momadonna regina
, confirmans. Garsea regulus, confirmans. Ranimirus, prolis regis,
confirmans ...".

Best regards,
Francisco Tavares de Almeida
(Portugal)


maria emma escobar escreveu:
Francisco Tavares de Almeyda wrote:
""But Fernando's position was peculiar
because he inherited Castile from his mother (Garcia being son of
Sancho's 1st marriage and not of Munia of Castile) so he was a""

This is not exact. García was, like Fernando, Gonzalo and their sisters, son of Sancho and Munia- Mayor of Castilla. Sancho and Munia were already married in 1.010, as we can see in the documents, for example in San Millán charts. García was born in 1.014-15 and Fernando probably in 1.016. Ramiro probably was born when his father was still unmarried.
Fernando inherited Castilla from his mother and Gonzalo inherited Ribagorza and Sobrarbe also from his mother, who had inherite this countries from an aunt without children.

There is a new work about García and his time:

"García Sánchez III "el de Najera", un rey y un reino en la europa del siglo XI."
XV Semana de Estudios medievalaes. Nájera, Tricio y San Millán de la Cogolla 2004. Instituo de Estudios Riojanos. Logroño, 2.005







---------------------------------

Correo Yahoo!
Comprueba qué es nuevo, aquí
http://correo.yahoo.es

Gjest

Re: Ramiro I, king of Aragon

Legg inn av Gjest » 12 nov 2005 21:53:02

In a message dated 11/12/05 12:30:53 AM Pacific Standard Time,
memaescobar@yahoo.es writes:

<< This is not exact. García was, like Fernando, Gonzalo and their sisters,
son of Sancho and Munia- Mayor of Castilla. Sancho and Munia were already
married in 1.010, as we can see in the documents, for example in San Millán
charts. García was born in 1.014-15 and Fernando probably in 1.016. Ramiro probably
was born when his father was still unmarried. >>

Since this conflicts with what I posted and sourced already perhaps you could
give us an exact quote from the work you cited that backs up this new claim.
Thanks
Will Johnson

Gjest

Re: Ramiro I, king of Aragon

Legg inn av Gjest » 12 nov 2005 22:24:08

Dear Will,

Louda and Maclagan definetely erred.
To commemorate the 1000nd years of the beginning of Sancho III's
reign (1004-1035) was published in Navarra a Collection of 87 Documents
starting in 970.
By courtesy of Manuel Cesar Furtado from Portugal-Gen list:
From a document of December, 21st, 1034 (Sancho III renews the
bishopric of Palencia)

".....et ego regina domna Maior sub iussione domini mei corroboro et
firmiter confirmo. Filio noster, domno Garsia, confirmans ..."

Best regards
Francisco Tavares de Almeida
(Portugal)

Todd A. Farmerie

Re: Ramiro I, king of Aragon

Legg inn av Todd A. Farmerie » 12 nov 2005 23:30:40

WJhonson@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 11/12/05 1:30:45 PM Pacific Standard Time,
francisco.tavaresdealmeida@gmail.com writes:

By courtesy of Manuel Cesar Furtado from Portugal-Gen list:
From a document of December, 21st, 1034 (Sancho III renews the
bishopric of Palencia)
".....et ego regina domna Maior sub iussione domini mei corroboro et
firmiter confirmo. Filio noster, domno Garsia, confirmans ..."

How does this confirm that Garcia was not a child of Sancho's first marriage/
I do not read Latin.


.....and I Queen Mayor,....... _our_ son, Lord Garcia


taf

Todd A. Farmerie

Re: Ramiro I, king of Aragon

Legg inn av Todd A. Farmerie » 12 nov 2005 23:36:18

WJhonson@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 11/12/05 3:31:31 AM Pacific Standard Time,
francisco.tavaresdealmeida@gmail.com writes:

I didn't know the book you mentioned but I thought Garcia was born
before 1014-15 and more probably 1010-12 because he seems to confirm
the donation of Ventosa to San Millán de la Cogolla in 1020 (March,
15th):
" ...Ego Sancius rex, que hec fieri iussi, ... ... Momadonna regina
, confirmans. Garsea regulus, confirmans. Ranimirus, prolis regis,
confirmans ...".

A five-year old boy is confirming a donation ?

Not uncommon for royalty. Look at all the princes lined up to confirm
some of AEthelred II's charters.


taf

Gjest

Re: Ramiro I, king of Aragon

Legg inn av Gjest » 12 nov 2005 23:40:49

In a message dated 11/12/05 1:30:45 PM Pacific Standard Time,
francisco.tavaresdealmeida@gmail.com writes:

<< ".....et ego regina domna Maior sub iussione domini mei corroboro et
firmiter confirmo. Filio noster, domno Garsia, confirmans ..." >>

Could you provide a translation?
Thanks
Will Johnson

Gjest

Re: Ramiro I, king of Aragon

Legg inn av Gjest » 13 nov 2005 00:03:45

In a message dated 11/12/05 3:31:31 AM Pacific Standard Time,
francisco.tavaresdealmeida@gmail.com writes:

<< I didn't know the book you mentioned but I thought Garcia was born
before 1014-15 and more probably 1010-12 because he seems to confirm
the donation of Ventosa to San Millán de la Cogolla in 1020 (March,
15th):
" ...Ego Sancius rex, que hec fieri iussi, ... ... Momadonna regina
, confirmans. Garsea regulus, confirmans. Ranimirus, prolis regis,
confirmans ...". >>

A five-year old boy is confirming a donation ?

Gjest

Re: Ramiro I, king of Aragon

Legg inn av Gjest » 13 nov 2005 00:04:38

In a message dated 11/12/05 1:30:45 PM Pacific Standard Time,
francisco.tavaresdealmeida@gmail.com writes:

<< By courtesy of Manuel Cesar Furtado from Portugal-Gen list:
From a document of December, 21st, 1034 (Sancho III renews the
bishopric of Palencia)

".....et ego regina domna Maior sub iussione domini mei corroboro et
firmiter confirmo. Filio noster, domno Garsia, confirmans ..." >>

How does this confirm that Garcia was not a child of Sancho's first marriage/
I do not read Latin.
Thanks
Will Johnson

Gjest

Re: Ramiro I, king of Aragon

Legg inn av Gjest » 13 nov 2005 02:50:53

I know nothing of Æthelred II's charters but in Iberia I thought the
minimal age would be 10-11.
I hope Maria Emma would give her evidence for the 1014-15 date.

Regards
Francisco

Todd A. Farmerie

Re: Ramiro I, king of Aragon

Legg inn av Todd A. Farmerie » 13 nov 2005 04:12:44

francisco.tavaresdealmeida@gmail.com wrote:
I know nothing of Æthelred II's charters but in Iberia I thought the
minimal age would be 10-11.

Regarding AEthelred, he married Emma of Normandy in 1002, and in 1005,
we find their son Eadweard witnessing charters.

http://www.anglo-saxons.net/hwaet/?do=g ... ter&id=910
http://www.anglo-saxons.net/hwaet/?do=g ... ter&id=912

taf

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