Fitzwalter?..Fitzhervey? out rawcliffe

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butlergrt

Fitzwalter?..Fitzhervey? out rawcliffe

Legg inn av butlergrt » 09 nov 2005 05:28:47

Good Evening,
I have several things I wished to post but have decided to start with this
one as the least time consuming and controversial and hope that it is
understood.
In the majority of lineages of Theobald Walter, of Ireland, he is listed
as such, but his father is listed as Hervius, only 2 exceptions have I
seen where he is listed as the son of Walter fitz Hervius. In the normal
sense of things it would seem not to matter as such, but the land records
are important as it is listed that the generation
above Theobold is Hervius, Roger, William and Ranulph in one another also
interchanged with Hamo/on, Theobold is listed as having brothers Hamo/on,
Hervious/Henry, Hubert, Roger and others? We know of Theobold Walter
Pincerna, called as such in the "Calendar of Ormonde Deeds",
We know of Hubert Walter, Archbishop of Canterbury, and we know of Hamo/on
whose line some say Hamon-William/Richard-Adam, Adam of which takes the
name of Hocton rather than Boteler.
Hamo married Maud, dau. of Richard Bussel 2nd B. of Pentwortham and was
given the manor of Hocton.
son.William mar. 1140 dau of Geoffrey de Farrare
son Richard?
son. Roger mar. a dau of Hugh Bussel
Williams and Maud's son
Adam takes the name de Hocton and styled himself Dominus de Hocton
1154-1189. His son,
Adam de Hocton is on a deed in 1200.son,
Adam,son,
Richard, Sheriff of Lancaster 1301
dau.Margaretta
dau. Johanna -name changes to Houghton. Now one of the strange things is
there is very little data on the Botelers of Rawcliffe. People tend to
lump them with the Botelers of Beausey of Warrington Botelers and they MAY
well be, but that line dies out after Thomas Boteler and his daughter
Elizabeth Boteler that marries Richard Radcliff that people think is a
version of Rawcliffe and that is it. It is not.
Hervius Walter before 1165 grants the Barony of Armounderness to Theobold
Walter and keeps one fee in the See of Ely for himself. This is recorded
in the Anglo-Norman History of the Glanvilles. This also makes sense as it
is recorded as the "SEE" of Ely as opposed to the priory of Ely, as it
Changed to a SEE between 1109-1139 with the Bishop of Ely, Hervey Le
Briton who was the First Bishop of Ely, he was the Bishop of Rangor. The
SEE of Ely was one of the richest Bishoprics of the time, so one fee could
have been substantial wealth and Hervius was a very old man by that time.
I know some have argued and written there was never a barony of
Armounderness and then of course Theobald Walters title of Lord of Preston
is a myth? Whatever the case, Theobald Walter Pincerna gave to his cousin
Sir Richard Pincerna (Boteler) all his lands in Out Rawcliffe and a
carucate of land in Stainall. This from the Lancashire, Wyre district
Towns and Villages at lancslink.org.uk, further, from the DUCHY RECORDS in
the reign of Charles I his descendant, Henry Boteler held the manor of Out
Rawcliffe, the manor of Middle Rawcliffe and lands in Upper Rawcliffe, one
of the more wealthy inhabitants of the area and was lost only after the
rebellion of 1715 when Richard Boteler, his descendant, was tried for
treason and died in prison awaiting execution and the manors and lands
reverted to the crown. AND YET..
IF they were related and obviously in the same county, why was then some,
if not all lands transfered??!
AND I BELIEVE THEY WERE... It is recorded that Aumeric Pincerna mar. dau
of Matthew De Villers son of Paganus De Villers and was 1st Baron
Warrington for 3 fees in Croxton, Bulham and Filingham, and yet Robert
FitzRichards held of Him 1 fee in Croxton, Fillingham and Hiam. Lineal
records of course show that William Pincerna Boteler is his heir, AND
YET...Chancery Rolls, 3 John, Nicholas Pincerna (Boteler) is recorded as
rendering and account of 100 s in the town of Croxton for 3 part of the
year. Nichooas does not appear in most if any pedigrees, nor of Dugdales
baronies though he was high Sheriff of Lancashire for Theobald Walter in
the year 1198, when he was in Ireland. What is curious, is his shield in
Lancashire castle is the 3 sheaves of wheat the same as the earl of
chester and is listed of Rawcliffe and his descendants who were high
sheriff of Lancashire had the same shield as his but with 3 cups, the
Botelers of Beausy of Warrington, Lancashire had six cups, shield same
color.
Now, as all I have seen, Richard Pincerna that married Beatrice, dau of
Matthew De Villers, his son was William the Baron of Warrington, where did
the Outrawcliffe lands go to? or from? I should say ? and it is
interesting to note that the Ada Workington that married William Boteler
is the same Ada that Married Sir Fleming that also was married to Rhoses
de Verdun, 2nd wife of Theobald Walters son, Theobold?
Best Regards,
Emmett L. Butler

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