Maternity of Margaret, daughter of Llywelyn the Great of Wal

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Gjest

Maternity of Margaret, daughter of Llywelyn the Great of Wal

Legg inn av Gjest » 01 nov 2005 12:10:53

Ian Mortimer also refers, in the genealogical tables accompanying his
book about Sir Roger Mortimer, to Margaret of Wales, firstly the wife
of John Braose and then wife to Walter de Clifford [this second
marriage is not shown].

The chart in question shows her as daughter of Llywelyn the Great by
Joan, illegitimate daughter of King John.

Am I right in thinking that the jury is still out on this
formerly-accepted identification of Margaret's mother - i.e. that Joan
was probably not Margaret's mother, or at least it is not known that
she was?

MA-R

Gjest

Re: Maternity of Margaret, daughter of Llywelyn the Great of

Legg inn av Gjest » 01 nov 2005 21:45:02

In a message dated 11/1/05 3:15:16 AM Pacific Standard Time,
mjcar@btinternet.com writes:

<< Am I right in thinking that the jury is still out on this
formerly-accepted identification of Margaret's mother - i.e. that Joan
was probably not Margaret's mother, or at least it is not known that
she was? >>

Does he cite anything to support it?

Gjest

Re: Maternity of Margaret, daughter of Llywelyn the Great of

Legg inn av Gjest » 01 nov 2005 22:23:39

No, it is just included in a larger table of the Mortimer family's
Welsh connections, which is why I suppose it is taken from an older
reference source which contained the long-standing but now questioned
version.

In fairness to Ian Mortimer, Margaret Clifford's maternity is not even
tangential to his subject. The work is otherwise pretty well
referenced. My only other quibble with the stemmae is his persistent
spelling of "Muchensi" (I find it hard to swallow the original first
'n'). There are a couple of other factual errors in the text, such as
the alleged three French Royal divorces of circa 1314.

Ford Mommaerts-Browne

Re: Maternity of Margaret, daughter of Llywelyn the Great of

Legg inn av Ford Mommaerts-Browne » 02 nov 2005 05:16:03

----- Original Message -----
From: <mjcar@btinternet.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 3:23 PM
Subject: Re: Maternity of Margaret, daughter of Llywelyn the Great of Wales


No, it is just included in a larger table of the Mortimer family's
Welsh connections, which is why I suppose it is taken from an older
reference source which contained the long-standing but now questioned
version.

In fairness to Ian Mortimer, Margaret Clifford's maternity is not even
tangential to his subject. The work is otherwise pretty well
referenced. My only other quibble with the stemmae


stemma -> stemmata


is his persistent
spelling of "Muchensi" (I find it hard to swallow the original first
'n'). There are a couple of other factual errors in the text, such as
the alleged three French Royal divorces of circa 1314.

Gjest

Re: Maternity of Margaret, daughter of Llywelyn the Great of

Legg inn av Gjest » 02 nov 2005 07:31:59

Good point - thanks Ford.

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