Alleged divorces of the King of France's sons, 1314

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Alleged divorces of the King of France's sons, 1314

Legg inn av Gjest » 31 okt 2005 21:32:05

Ian Mortimer in his interesting book "The Greatest Traitor: The Life of
Sir Roger Mortimer" (London 2003) at p 140 states:

"In the spring of 1314, at the age of eighteen [Isabella, wife of
Edward II of England] had visited Paris and met her father [King Philip
IV of France]. She had unburdened herself of the terrible knowledge
that all three of her brothers were having adulterous affairs wth two
knights in the Touer de Nesles. Philip had the two men watched, and
apprehended them. They died cruel deaths... [and] the women too were
severely punished: divorced from their husband and imprisoned for
life."

[citing E.A.R. Brown, "Diplomacy, Adultery and Domestic Politics",
Woodbridge, 1989]

Is it the case that the wives of her three brothers - the future Kings
Louis X, Philip V and Charles IV - were divorced? According to the
sources I have checked to date, the first married Margaret of Burgundy,
who died [?murdered] 1315; the second married Joan of Artois, died
1329; and the third married Blanche of Burgundy, from whom he was
divorced in 1322.

MAR

Brad Verity

Re: Alleged divorces of the King of France's sons, 1314

Legg inn av Brad Verity » 31 okt 2005 22:56:18

mjcar@btinternet.com wrote:

Ian Mortimer in his interesting book "The Greatest Traitor: The Life of
Sir Roger Mortimer" (London 2003) at p 140 states:

"In the spring of 1314, at the age of eighteen [Isabella, wife of
Edward II of England] had visited Paris and met her father [King Philip
IV of France]. She had unburdened herself of the terrible knowledge
that all three of her brothers were having adulterous affairs wth two
knights in the Touer de Nesles.

LOL - I think you meant to write "the terrible knowledge that the WIVES
of all three of her brothers were having adulterous affairs with two
knights."

It was Isabella's husband, not her brothers, who had adulterous affairs
with knights.

Philip had the two men watched, and
apprehended them. They died cruel deaths... [and] the women too were
severely punished: divorced from their husband and imprisoned for
life."

[citing E.A.R. Brown, "Diplomacy, Adultery and Domestic Politics",
Woodbridge, 1989]

Brown's article is very good, by the way, and goes into the events of
1314 in great detail.

Is it the case that the wives of her three brothers - the future Kings
Louis X, Philip V and Charles IV - were divorced?

No, none of them were divorced, though one was annulled. And only two
of them were adulterers, the third was merely suspected of being an
accomplice. Another great article for the genealogy of Isabella's
brothers is "The Third Marriage of King Charles IV and His Offspring"
by Thierry Strasser in the journal 'Medieval Prosopography'.

Per Strasser: "In May of the same year his [Charles'] wife Blanche, her
sister Jeanne, and her sister-in-law Marguerite had been convicted of
adultery and were all confined at the fortress of Château Gaillard ...
Blanche and Marguerite (daughter of the late duke of Burgundy, Robert
II, and Agnès of France, and wife of Louis, king of Navarre, the
future Louis X) had been involved in an affair with two young noblemen,
Gauthier and Philippe de Aulnay, for about three years. This affair
had come to light by mid-April 1314; the Aulnay brothers confessed
everything, and the king's daughters-in-law were put under arrest.
Convicted of adultery, Blanche and Marguerite were shaven and
imprisoned at Château Gaillard, where Marguerite died, 30 April 1315.
Blanche languished there still when her husband succeeded to the
throne. Her sister Jeanne, suspected of complicity and also arrested
in May 1314, had been declared innocent and released ... The new king
had remained married to Blanche despite her misbehavior. They were
childless, for their only known offspring, a daughter named Jeanne, had
died by this time. Now Charles appealed to Pope John XXII for an
annulment of this marriage, which was granted on the Eve of the
Ascension, 19 May, 1322. Adultery appears not to have been a
sufficient reason; Charles resorted to another argument: since
Blanche's mother, Mathilde of Artois, was Charles's godmother, the
annulment was obtained on the grounds of spiritual kinship between
spouses."

Hope this helps.

Cheers, ------Brad

Rashid Amora

Re: Alleged divorces of the King of France's sons, 1314

Legg inn av Rashid Amora » 01 nov 2005 04:42:14

Can you give us some more details about the genealogy of Isabella's
brothers? You mention "The Third Marriage of King Charles IV and His
Offspring"
by Thierry Strasser in the journal 'Medieval Prosopography'. I dont have
access to this work.
Thank you.
Rashid

"Brad Verity" <batruth@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:1130795778.338773.122980@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
mjcar@btinternet.com wrote:

Ian Mortimer in his interesting book "The Greatest Traitor: The Life of
Sir Roger Mortimer" (London 2003) at p 140 states:

"In the spring of 1314, at the age of eighteen [Isabella, wife of
Edward II of England] had visited Paris and met her father [King Philip
IV of France]. She had unburdened herself of the terrible knowledge
that all three of her brothers were having adulterous affairs wth two
knights in the Touer de Nesles.

LOL - I think you meant to write "the terrible knowledge that the WIVES
of all three of her brothers were having adulterous affairs with two
knights."

It was Isabella's husband, not her brothers, who had adulterous affairs
with knights.

Philip had the two men watched, and
apprehended them. They died cruel deaths... [and] the women too were
severely punished: divorced from their husband and imprisoned for
life."

[citing E.A.R. Brown, "Diplomacy, Adultery and Domestic Politics",
Woodbridge, 1989]

Brown's article is very good, by the way, and goes into the events of
1314 in great detail.

Is it the case that the wives of her three brothers - the future Kings
Louis X, Philip V and Charles IV - were divorced?

No, none of them were divorced, though one was annulled. And only two
of them were adulterers, the third was merely suspected of being an
accomplice. Another great article for the genealogy of Isabella's
brothers is "The Third Marriage of King Charles IV and His Offspring"
by Thierry Strasser in the journal 'Medieval Prosopography'.

Per Strasser: "In May of the same year his [Charles'] wife Blanche, her
sister Jeanne, and her sister-in-law Marguerite had been convicted of
adultery and were all confined at the fortress of Château Gaillard ...
Blanche and Marguerite (daughter of the late duke of Burgundy, Robert
II, and Agnès of France, and wife of Louis, king of Navarre, the
future Louis X) had been involved in an affair with two young noblemen,
Gauthier and Philippe de Aulnay, for about three years. This affair
had come to light by mid-April 1314; the Aulnay brothers confessed
everything, and the king's daughters-in-law were put under arrest.
Convicted of adultery, Blanche and Marguerite were shaven and
imprisoned at Château Gaillard, where Marguerite died, 30 April 1315.
Blanche languished there still when her husband succeeded to the
throne. Her sister Jeanne, suspected of complicity and also arrested
in May 1314, had been declared innocent and released ... The new king
had remained married to Blanche despite her misbehavior. They were
childless, for their only known offspring, a daughter named Jeanne, had
died by this time. Now Charles appealed to Pope John XXII for an
annulment of this marriage, which was granted on the Eve of the
Ascension, 19 May, 1322. Adultery appears not to have been a
sufficient reason; Charles resorted to another argument: since
Blanche's mother, Mathilde of Artois, was Charles's godmother, the
annulment was obtained on the grounds of spiritual kinship between
spouses."

Hope this helps.

Cheers, ------Brad

Gjest

Re: Alleged divorces of the King of France's sons, 1314

Legg inn av Gjest » 01 nov 2005 07:37:37

Many thanks for the detailed replies, and for confirmation that Ian
Mortimer's statement is incorrect as respects divorce.

Apologies for the embarrassing omission - the original text does, of
course, refer to the brothers' wives - clearly I have been reading too
much about Edward II!

Gjest

Re: Alleged divorces of the King of France's sons, 1314

Legg inn av Gjest » 01 nov 2005 17:38:07

In relation to a similar enquiry elsewhere, Francois Velde kindly
supplied the following:

"The wives were Marguerite, Jeanne and Blanche de Bourgogne (the last
two were
sisters), wives of Louis X, Philippe V and Charles IV. According to
Père
Anselme, the first was imprisoned in the Château Gaillard at les
Andelys and
strangled in 1315. The second was imprisoned at Dourdan almost a year,
but
found innocent and she returned with her husband (she died on Jan 21,
1330). The
third was also imprisoned at les Andelys, and her husband had the
marriage
annulled on pretext of kinship, after he acceded the throne in January
1322: the
bishop of Winchester(*) was sent to Rome for that purpose in April and
returned
on September 7, and Charles IV remarried on September 21. She was
released in
1325, became a nun in the abbey of Maubuisson and died soon after.

(*) Anselme names him Peter Mortimer but I can't find that name in the
list of
bishops. "

I cannot identify this Peter Mortimer, or appreciate why the King of
France in 1322 should be employing an English Bishop in his matrimonial
diplomacy with the Pope.

MAR

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