Monthermer and Montagu

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Kinta Delamain

Monthermer and Montagu

Legg inn av Kinta Delamain » 25 okt 2005 20:07:01

Hello list,
We are working on the line of WILLIAM D’ALBINI, Magna Charta Surety to
THOMAS SMITH, SR, Landgrave and Governor of Carolina (1693-94). Have a
brick wall that I hope someone can help break down.
What we have:

D’Albini is Anglo-Latin for the French d’Aubeney.

We are fine down to

Margaret de MONTHERMER and Lord John MONTAGU, K.G., 3rd Earl of Salisbury
(married about 1383; Lord Montagu died by
beheading January 1399/1400) .

Robert MONTAGU m. Mary of Devon

John Montagu of Sutton- Montagu m. Agnes More

Willliam Montagu of Sutton Montagu m.
Mary Sullivan

Are Robert, John and William correct?? I don’t find Robert as a child of
Margaret de Monthermer and John Montagu except in old family “works” – with
no reference as to source. We do find an acceptable reference of Agnes
More being the wife of John.

After William we are fine to Landgrave Thomas Smith.

Can anyone help me with the three that are questionable??

Kinta Delamain
NC Outer Banks

Brad Verity

Re: Monthermer and Montagu

Legg inn av Brad Verity » 25 okt 2005 23:18:50

Dear Kinta,

Comments interspersed.

"Kinta Delamain" wrote:

Margaret de MONTHERMER

Margaret was born 11 Oct. 1329, per her Proof of Age. She died 24 Mar.
1395.

and Lord John MONTAGU, K.G., 3rd Earl of Salisbury
(married about 1383; Lord Montagu died by
beheading January 1399/1400) .

This has confused Margaret's husband with her eldest son and heir. Her
husband was Sir John Montagu, of Wark-upon-Tweed. He was born about
1330 (under age in 1346), the younger son of William, 1st Earl of
Salisbury. As his wife Margaret was an heiress, there were enough
estates for Sir John to be summoned to Parliament as a baron in 1357.
He died 25 Feb. 1390.

He and Margaret had four daus and three sons. The sons were:

1) John de Montagu, who suc. his uncle as 3rd Earl of Salisbury and was
beheaded at Cirencester 5 Jan. 1400. Father of the 4th (and last)
Montagu earl of Salisbury.
2) Thomas de Montagu, entered the church, became dean of Salisbury, and
died 31 Aug. 1404.
3) Sir Richard de Montagu, became the last male descendant of the
Montagus, earls of Salisbury and lords Montagu, died without issue 12
June 1429.

Robert MONTAGU m. Mary of Devon

John Montagu of Sutton- Montagu m. Agnes More

Willliam Montagu of Sutton Montagu m.
Mary Sullivan

Are Robert, John and William correct?? I don't find Robert as a child of
Margaret de Monthermer and John Montagu except in old family "works" - with
no reference as to source.

These family works probably originated in the 18th & 19th centuries
when there were attempts to link the Montagu family of the earls of
Sandwich with the medieval noble family. The marriage of Sir John
Montagu and Margaret Monthermer seemed the safest place to fit in
younger sons. However, the Montagu inheritance was up to some dispute
in the early 15th century - much of it had been entailed to male
descendants - and had there been any after the death of the 4th earl of
Salisbury, other than his one uncle Richard, they would have surfaced.

We do find an acceptable reference of Agnes
More being the wife of John.

Hope this helps.

Cheers, -----Brad

Gjest

Re: Monthermer and Montagu

Legg inn av Gjest » 25 okt 2005 23:26:02

"Kinta Delamain" wrote:
Hello list,
We are working on the line of WILLIAM D'ALBINI, Magna Charta Surety to
THOMAS SMITH, SR, Landgrave and Governor of Carolina (1693-94). Have a
brick wall that I hope someone can help break down.
What we have:

D'Albini is Anglo-Latin for the French d'Aubeney.

We are fine down to

Margaret de MONTHERMER and Lord John MONTAGU, K.G., 3rd Earl of Salisbury
(married about 1383; Lord Montagu died by
beheading January 1399/1400) .

Robert MONTAGU m. Mary of Devon

John Montagu of Sutton- Montagu m. Agnes More

Willliam Montagu of Sutton Montagu m.
Mary Sullivan

Are Robert, John and William correct?? I don't find Robert as a child of
Margaret de Monthermer and John Montagu except in old family "works" - with
no reference as to source. We do find an acceptable reference of Agnes
More being the wife of John.

After William we are fine to Landgrave Thomas Smith.

snip snip

I believe that John, 3rd Earl of Salisbury was son of Sir John and
Margaret Monthermer. I have never seen a son named Robert of either of
these John de Montagu's. However, I do not pretend to be an expert on
the Montagu's. Try these sources for starters:

Faris, (1999), pps 242-243.
CP IX: 82, 143-144.
Sir John McLean, Historical and Genealogical Memoir of the Family of
Poyntz, (1886), reprinted 1983, p 250.


Doug Smith




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