William Gascoigne's descent from Ralph Neville, 1st Earl of

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Douglas Richardson

William Gascoigne's descent from Ralph Neville, 1st Earl of

Legg inn av Douglas Richardson » 15 okt 2005 22:01:33

Dear Newsgroup ~

The Gascoigne-Neville pedigree that Will Johnson has set forth is
actually quite sound. This descent is covered in depth by my book,
Magna Carta Ancestry (2005), pp. 364-366, a copy of which information
is presented below. For those interested in obtaining a copy of the
Magna Carta Ancestry book, please contact me privately.

One note of correction: In his post, Mr. Johnson identified Sir Ralph
Neville, of Oversley, Warwickshire, died 1458, as a son of Sir Ralph
Neville, 1st Earl of Westmorland, by his 2nd wife, Joan Beaufort. This
is wrong. Sir Ralph (died 1458) was actually the son of the elder Sir
Ralph by his 1st wife, Margaret Stafford, as indicated below, not his
2nd wife, Joan Beaufort.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

Website: http://www.royalancestry.net

+ + + + + + + + + + + +
Source: Magna Carta Ancestry (2005), pp. 364-366.

ROGER LE BIGOD, Earl of Norfolk, married IDA _____.
MARY LE BIGOD, married RANULPH FITZ ROBERT, of Middleham, Yorkshire.
RALPH FITZ RANULPH, Knt., of Middleham, Yorkshire, married ANASTASIA DE
PERCY.
MARY FITZ RANULPH, married ROBERT DE NEVILLE, of Middleham, Yorkshire.
RANULPH DE NEVILLE, Knt., 1st Lord Neville of Raby, married EUPHEME DE
CLAVERING.
RALPH DE NEVILLE, Knt., 2nd Lord Neville of Raby, married ALICE DE
AUDLEY.
JOHN DE NEVILLE, Knt., K.G., 3rd Lord Neville of Raby, married MAUD DE
PERCY.
RALPH NEVILLE, K.G., 1st Earl of Westmorland, married MARGARET STAFFORD
[see NEVILLE 8].

9. RALPH NEVILLE, Knt., in right of his wife, of Oversley, Warwickshire
and Tyrley, Staffordshire, 2nd son. He married before 1411 MARY
FERRERS, younger daughter and co-heiress of Robert Ferrers, Knt., 2nd
Lord Ferrers of Wem, by Joan Beaufort, legitimated daughter of John of
Gaunt, K.G., Duke of Aquitaine and Lancaster, Earl of Derby, Lincoln,
and Leicester (son of King Edward III) [see WEM 8 for her ancestry].
She was born about 1394 (aged 17 in 1411). They had one son, John,
Esq., and one daughter, Jane (wife of Walter Griffith). His wife,
Mary, died 25 Jan. 1457/8. SIR RALPH NEVILLE died 26 Feb. 1457/8.

References:

Garbet, Hist. of Wem (1818): 31-40. Rowland, Noble Fam. of Nevill
(1830). Surtees, Hist. & Antiqs. of Durham 4 (1840): 158-163 (Nevill
pedigrees). Tonge Vis. of Northern Counties 1530 (Surtees Soc. 41)
(1863): 14-15 (Neville pedigree), 28-29 (Neville pedigree: "Rauff
[Neville], ii'de son") [Neville arms: Gules, on a saltire argent, a
lily (?) azure]. Trans. Leicestershire Architectural & Arch. Soc. 1
(1866): 316-340. Genealogist n.s. 3 (1886): 31-35, 107-111
(Neville pedigree: "Radulphum de Neuille, Militem"); n.s. 20
(1904): 159-160. Desc. Cat. of Ancient Deeds 2 (1894): 418. Mundy,
Middlesex Peds. (H.S.P. 65) (1914): 53-54 (Harington pedigree:
"Raffe Nevill. =Mary d. & coheire of Robert Ferrers Baron of
Owesley."). Harvey et al., Vis. of the North 3 (Surtees Soc. 144)
(1930): 23-32 (Neville pedigree: "dominus Radulphus Nevill miles
baro de Ousley per vxorem"), (Neville pedigree: "Maria [Ferrers]
nupta Radulpho Neuill ijdo filio comitis Westmerland"). TAG 17
(1940-41): 105-109. Twemlow, Manor of Tyrley (Colls. Hist. Staffs.
3rd Ser. 1945-6) (1948): 38-43, 67-73. Paget, Baronage of England
(1957) 6: 15, 404: 13.

10. JOHN NEVILLE, Esq., of Oversley, Warwickshire, and Tyrley,
Staffordshire, Knight of the Shire for Lincolnshire, and Sheriff of
Lincolnshire, son and heir, about 1418 (aged 40 in 1458). He married
(1st) ELIZABETH NEWMARCH, daughter of Robert Newmarch, of Womersley,
Whatton, etc., by Joan, daughter of Hugh Shirley, Knt., of Eatington,
Warwickshire [see NEWMARCH 8 for her ancestry]. She was born about
1417-18 (aged 40 in 1457-58). They had one daughter, Joan.
Elizabeth was heiress after 1428 to her brother, John Newmarch, by
which she inherited the manors of Womersley and Askerne, Yorkshire,
Althorpe, Lincolnshire, and Whatton, Nottinghamshire. He married (2nd)
about 1467 MARGARET PLUMPTON, widow of George Darrell, Knt. (died 30
March 1466), and daughter of William Plumpton, Knt. They had no issue.
JOHN NEVILLE, Esq., died intestate 17 March 1481/2. His widow,
Margaret, died 14 May 1487.

References: Thoroton & Throsby, Thoroton's Hist. of Nottinghamshire 1
(1790): 265-267 (Newmarch pedigree). Rowland, Noble Fam. of Nevill
(1830). Coll. Top. & Gen. 1 (1834): 302-303 (Neville pedigree), 407;
6 (1840): 394-395. Surtees, Hist. & Antiqs. of Durham 4 (1840):
158-163 (Nevill pedigrees). Tonge, Vis. of Northern Counties 1530
(Surtees Soc. 41) (1863): 14-15 (Neville pedigree: Newmarch arms:
Gules, five fusils in fess or). Flower, Vis. of Yorkshire 1563-4
(H.S.P. 16) (1881): 223-224 (Newmarch pedigree: "John Nevell son &
heyr. = Elsabeth doughter of Robert Newmarch & heyr to her Brother
Raff."). Genealogist n.s. 20 (1904): 158-160. Mundy, Middlesex
Peds. (H.S.P. 65) (1914): 53-54 (Harington pedigree: "John Neuill
lord of Wymersley. = Elizabeth d. & heire of Robert Newmarch.").
Harvey et al., Vis. of the North 3 (Surtees Soc. 144) (1930): 23-32
(Neville pedigree: "Iohannes Nevill armiger de Wormesley"), 151
(Neville pedigree: "Iohannes Neville de Wymersley [1] = Elizabeth
filia et heres Roberti Newmarch de Wymersley, [2] = Margareta filia
domini Willelmi Plumton militis relicta Georgij Darell militis").
TAG 17 (1940-41): 105-109. Twemlow, Manor of Tyrley (Colls. Hist.
Staffs. 3rd Ser. 1945-6) (1948): 38-43, 67-73. Paget, Baronage of
England (1957) 6: 15, 404: 13. NEHGR 104 (1950): 270.

11. JOAN NEVILLE, daughter and heiress. She married (1st) WILLIAM
GASCOIGNE, Knt., of Gawthorpe, Yorkshire, and, in right of his wife, of
Oversley, Warwickshire, Tyrley, Staffordshire, Womersley, Yorkshire,
and Whatton, Nottinghamshire, son and heir of William Gascoigne, Knt.,
of Gawthorpe, Yorkshire, by Margaret, daughter of Thomas Clarell, Esq.
[see CLARELL 7.iii for his ancestry]. They had three sons, William,
Knt., John, and Humphrey, and four daughters, Margaret, Agnes (wife of
Robert Plumpton, Knt.), Elizabeth and Joan. Either he or his father of
the same name was a knight of the shire for Yorkshire in the parliament
of March 1452/3. In 1454 he was one of those commanded with the Earl
of Westmorland to raise the forces of the West Riding and march against
the insurgents in Lancashire. SIR WILLIAM GASCOIGNE was living 15 July
1461, when he received a pardon. His widow, Joan, married (2nd) by
license dated 13 Jan. 1463/4 JAMES HARRINGTON, Knt., of Hornby,
Yorkshire. They had three sons, John, Thomas and William.

References:

Thoroton & Throsby, Thoroton's Hist. of Nottinghamshire 1 (1790):
265-267 (Newmarch pedigree). Rowland, Noble Fam. of Nevill (1830).
Hunter South Yorkshire 2 (1831): 484. Coll. Top. & Gen. 1 (1834):
302-303 (Neville pedigree), 407; 6 (1840): 394-395. Surtees, Hist.
& Antiqs. of Durham 4 (1840): 158-163 (Nevill pedigrees). Tonge,
Vis. of Northern Counties 1530 (Surtees Soc. 41) (1863): 14-15
(Gascoigne pedigree: "Syr Willyam Gascoyn, the iij son of Willyam,
and heyre, married Jane, doughter to John Nevill, baron of Owseley, and
lord of Woumersley") (Gascoigne arms: Argent, on a pale sable, the
head of a conger eel or). Foster, Peds. of Fams. of Yorkshire (1874).
Flower, Vis. of Yorkshire 1563-4 (H.S.P. 16) (1881): 133-136
(Gascoigne pedigree: "Dame Jane doghter & heyr to John Nevell Baron
of Owseley and Lord of Wymesley [1] = Sir William Gaskon son and heyr,
[2] = Sir James Haryngton 2 husband to Dame Jane & had issu."),
223-224 (Newmarch pedigree: "Jane Nevell doughter & heyre, [1] =
William Gaskon Esq. of Gawthorpe, [2] = Sir James Harrington Knight
second husband."). Genealogist n.s. 20 (1904): 158-160. Mundy,
Middlesex Peds. (H.S.P. 65) (1914): 53-54 (Harington pedigree: "Sr
James Harington knt. attainted. = Jane d. & heire of John Neuell lord
of Ousley widdow of Sr William Gascoign knt."). Harvey et al., Vis.
of the North 3 (Surtees Soc. 144) (1930): 23-32 (Neville pedigree:
"Elizabeth [Nevill] primo nupta Gascoigne militi postea Iacobo
Harington militi"), 151 (Neville pedigree: "Iohanna filia et heres
Iohannis Neuille = 1. Dominus Willelmus Gascoigne miles, = 2. Iacobus
Harington miles dominus de Hornebie"). Gooder, Parliamentary
Representation of York 1 (Yorkshire Arch. Soc. Recs. 91) (1935):
186-188 (biog. of William Gascoigne). TAG 17 (1940-41): 105-109.
Twemlow, Manor of Tyrley (Colls. Hist. Staffs. 3rd Ser. 1945-6)
(1948): 38-43, 67-73. Paget, Lineage & Anc. of Prince Charles 2
(1977): 411.

Children of Joan Neville, by William Gascoigne, Knt.:

i. WILLIAM GASCOIGNE, Knt. [see next].
ii. MARGARET GASCOIGNE, married CHRISTOPHER WARDE, Knt., of Givendale,
Yorkshire. [see TUNSTALL 10].

12. WILLIAM GASCOIGNE, Knt., of Gawthorpe, Yorkshire, Tyrley,
Staffordshire, etc., Justice of the Peace for the West Riding,
Yorkshire, Knight of the Body for King Richard III, son and heir, born
about 1450. He married before 1469 MARGARET PERCY, daughter of Henry
Percy, Knt., 3rd Earl of Northumberland, 6th Lord Percy, by Eleanor,
daughter and heiress of Richard Poynings, Knt. [see PERCY 12 for her
ancestry]. They had six sons, William, Knt., Henry, Thomas, Henry
(again), John, and Thomas (again) and seven daughters, Margaret (wife
of Ralph, Lord Ogle), Eleanor, Maud, Joan, Elizabeth, Anne (or Agnes),
and Dorothy. In 1480 he obtained a license to crenellate his house at
Gawthorpe and impark over 2,000 acres of his demesne. He was knighted
by Richard, Duke of Gloucester (afterwards King Richard III), on
campaign near Berwick in 1481. He was present at the Battle of
Bosworth in 1485. SIR WILLIAM GASCOIGNE died 12 March 1487.

References:

Coll. Top. & Gen. 1 (1834): 298 (Percy pedigree), 302-303 (Neville
pedigree); 6 (1840): 394-395. Tonge, Vis. of Northern Counties 1530
(Surtees Soc. 41) (1863): 14-15 (Gascoigne pedigree: "Syr Willyam
Gascoyn, the iiijth of that name, son of Willyam, maried Margaret,
[doughter] to Henry Erle of Northumberland"). Foster, Peds. of Fams.
of Yorkshire (1874): Gascoigne chart. Flower Vis. of Yorkshire
1563-4 (H.S.P. 16) (1881): 133-136 (Gascoigne pedigree: "Sir
William Gaskon Knight, son & heyr to Sir William maryed = Margaret
doghter of Henry the 3 Earl of Northumberland."), 241-244 (Percy
pedigree: "Margaret [Percy] wyff to Sir William Gaskon.").
Genealogist n.s. 20 (1904): 158-160. Ruvigny and Raineval,
Plantagenet Roll: Mortimer-Percy 1 (1911): 2, 33. Harvey et al., Vis.
of the North 3 (Surtees Soc. 144) (1930): 18-20 (Percy pedigree:
"Margareta [Percy] nupta Willelmo Gascoyn militi"), 151 (Neville
pedigree: "Dominus Willelmus Gascoyn miles = Margareta filia comitis
Northumbrorum"). C.P. 9 (1936): 717, footnote d (sub
Northumberland). Twemlow, Manor of Tyrley (Colls. Hist. Staffs. 3rd
Ser. 1945-6) (1948): 38-43, 67-73. Kirby, Plumpton Letters &
Papers (Camden Soc. 5th Ser. 8) (1996): 54 (William, then Esq., called
"brother" by Henry Percy, 4th Earl of Northumberland), 316 (biog.
of Sir William Gascoigne).

Children of William Gascoigne, Knt., by Margaret Percy:

i. ANNE (or AGNES) GASCOIGNE, married THOMAS FAIRFAX, Knt., of Walton,
Yorkshire [see FAIRFAX 12].
ii. ELIZABETH GASCOIGNE, married GEORGE TAILBOYS, Knt., de jure Lord
Kyme, styled Earl of Angus [see TAILBOYS 12].
iii. DOROTHY GASCOIGNE, married NINIAN MARKENFIELD, Knt., of
Markenfield, Yorkshire [see MAULEVERER 13].

CED

Violation of netiquette: was Re: William Gascoigne's descent

Legg inn av CED » 15 okt 2005 22:24:15

Douglas Richardson wrote:
Dear Newsgroup ~

The Gascoigne-Neville pedigree that Will Johnson has set forth is
actually quite sound. This descent is covered in depth by my book,
Magna Carta Ancestry (2005), pp. 364-366, a copy of which information
is presented below. For those interested in obtaining a copy of the
Magna Carta Ancestry book, please contact me privately.

To the newsgroup:

This posting by Richardson is in flagrant violation of netiquette, as
is obvious from the definition set out below. If we had a moderated
group, such a breach could be avoided.

CED

'netiquette [from "network etiquette"] n The conventions of politeness
recognized in discussion forums, such as avoidance of cross-posting to
inappropriate forums and refraining from commercial pluggery outside
the business forums.'





One note of correction: In his post, Mr. Johnson identified Sir Ralph
Neville, of Oversley, Warwickshire, died 1458, as a son of Sir Ralph
Neville, 1st Earl of Westmorland, by his 2nd wife, Joan Beaufort. This
is wrong. Sir Ralph (died 1458) was actually the son of the elder Sir
Ralph by his 1st wife, Margaret Stafford, as indicated below, not his
2nd wife, Joan Beaufort.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

Website: http://www.royalancestry.net

+ + + + + + + + + + + +
Source: Magna Carta Ancestry (2005), pp. 364-366.

ROGER LE BIGOD, Earl of Norfolk, married IDA _____.
MARY LE BIGOD, married RANULPH FITZ ROBERT, of Middleham, Yorkshire.
RALPH FITZ RANULPH, Knt., of Middleham, Yorkshire, married ANASTASIA DE
PERCY.
MARY FITZ RANULPH, married ROBERT DE NEVILLE, of Middleham, Yorkshire.
RANULPH DE NEVILLE, Knt., 1st Lord Neville of Raby, married EUPHEME DE
CLAVERING.
RALPH DE NEVILLE, Knt., 2nd Lord Neville of Raby, married ALICE DE
AUDLEY.
JOHN DE NEVILLE, Knt., K.G., 3rd Lord Neville of Raby, married MAUD DE
PERCY.
RALPH NEVILLE, K.G., 1st Earl of Westmorland, married MARGARET STAFFORD
[see NEVILLE 8].

9. RALPH NEVILLE, Knt., in right of his wife, of Oversley, Warwickshire
and Tyrley, Staffordshire, 2nd son. He married before 1411 MARY
FERRERS, younger daughter and co-heiress of Robert Ferrers, Knt., 2nd
Lord Ferrers of Wem, by Joan Beaufort, legitimated daughter of John of
Gaunt, K.G., Duke of Aquitaine and Lancaster, Earl of Derby, Lincoln,
and Leicester (son of King Edward III) [see WEM 8 for her ancestry].
She was born about 1394 (aged 17 in 1411). They had one son, John,
Esq., and one daughter, Jane (wife of Walter Griffith). His wife,
Mary, died 25 Jan. 1457/8. SIR RALPH NEVILLE died 26 Feb. 1457/8.

References:

Garbet, Hist. of Wem (1818): 31-40. Rowland, Noble Fam. of Nevill
(1830). Surtees, Hist. & Antiqs. of Durham 4 (1840): 158-163 (Nevill
pedigrees). Tonge Vis. of Northern Counties 1530 (Surtees Soc. 41)
(1863): 14-15 (Neville pedigree), 28-29 (Neville pedigree: "Rauff
[Neville], ii'de son") [Neville arms: Gules, on a saltire argent, a
lily (?) azure]. Trans. Leicestershire Architectural & Arch. Soc. 1
(1866): 316-340. Genealogist n.s. 3 (1886): 31-35, 107-111
(Neville pedigree: "Radulphum de Neuille, Militem"); n.s. 20
(1904): 159-160. Desc. Cat. of Ancient Deeds 2 (1894): 418. Mundy,
Middlesex Peds. (H.S.P. 65) (1914): 53-54 (Harington pedigree:
"Raffe Nevill. =Mary d. & coheire of Robert Ferrers Baron of
Owesley."). Harvey et al., Vis. of the North 3 (Surtees Soc. 144)
(1930): 23-32 (Neville pedigree: "dominus Radulphus Nevill miles
baro de Ousley per vxorem"), (Neville pedigree: "Maria [Ferrers]
nupta Radulpho Neuill ijdo filio comitis Westmerland"). TAG 17
(1940-41): 105-109. Twemlow, Manor of Tyrley (Colls. Hist. Staffs.
3rd Ser. 1945-6) (1948): 38-43, 67-73. Paget, Baronage of England
(1957) 6: 15, 404: 13.

10. JOHN NEVILLE, Esq., of Oversley, Warwickshire, and Tyrley,
Staffordshire, Knight of the Shire for Lincolnshire, and Sheriff of
Lincolnshire, son and heir, about 1418 (aged 40 in 1458). He married
(1st) ELIZABETH NEWMARCH, daughter of Robert Newmarch, of Womersley,
Whatton, etc., by Joan, daughter of Hugh Shirley, Knt., of Eatington,
Warwickshire [see NEWMARCH 8 for her ancestry]. She was born about
1417-18 (aged 40 in 1457-58). They had one daughter, Joan.
Elizabeth was heiress after 1428 to her brother, John Newmarch, by
which she inherited the manors of Womersley and Askerne, Yorkshire,
Althorpe, Lincolnshire, and Whatton, Nottinghamshire. He married (2nd)
about 1467 MARGARET PLUMPTON, widow of George Darrell, Knt. (died 30
March 1466), and daughter of William Plumpton, Knt. They had no issue.
JOHN NEVILLE, Esq., died intestate 17 March 1481/2. His widow,
Margaret, died 14 May 1487.

References: Thoroton & Throsby, Thoroton's Hist. of Nottinghamshire 1
(1790): 265-267 (Newmarch pedigree). Rowland, Noble Fam. of Nevill
(1830). Coll. Top. & Gen. 1 (1834): 302-303 (Neville pedigree), 407;
6 (1840): 394-395. Surtees, Hist. & Antiqs. of Durham 4 (1840):
158-163 (Nevill pedigrees). Tonge, Vis. of Northern Counties 1530
(Surtees Soc. 41) (1863): 14-15 (Neville pedigree: Newmarch arms:
Gules, five fusils in fess or). Flower, Vis. of Yorkshire 1563-4
(H.S.P. 16) (1881): 223-224 (Newmarch pedigree: "John Nevell son &
heyr. = Elsabeth doughter of Robert Newmarch & heyr to her Brother
Raff."). Genealogist n.s. 20 (1904): 158-160. Mundy, Middlesex
Peds. (H.S.P. 65) (1914): 53-54 (Harington pedigree: "John Neuill
lord of Wymersley. = Elizabeth d. & heire of Robert Newmarch.").
Harvey et al., Vis. of the North 3 (Surtees Soc. 144) (1930): 23-32
(Neville pedigree: "Iohannes Nevill armiger de Wormesley"), 151
(Neville pedigree: "Iohannes Neville de Wymersley [1] = Elizabeth
filia et heres Roberti Newmarch de Wymersley, [2] = Margareta filia
domini Willelmi Plumton militis relicta Georgij Darell militis").
TAG 17 (1940-41): 105-109. Twemlow, Manor of Tyrley (Colls. Hist.
Staffs. 3rd Ser. 1945-6) (1948): 38-43, 67-73. Paget, Baronage of
England (1957) 6: 15, 404: 13. NEHGR 104 (1950): 270.

11. JOAN NEVILLE, daughter and heiress. She married (1st) WILLIAM
GASCOIGNE, Knt., of Gawthorpe, Yorkshire, and, in right of his wife, of
Oversley, Warwickshire, Tyrley, Staffordshire, Womersley, Yorkshire,
and Whatton, Nottinghamshire, son and heir of William Gascoigne, Knt.,
of Gawthorpe, Yorkshire, by Margaret, daughter of Thomas Clarell, Esq.
[see CLARELL 7.iii for his ancestry]. They had three sons, William,
Knt., John, and Humphrey, and four daughters, Margaret, Agnes (wife of
Robert Plumpton, Knt.), Elizabeth and Joan. Either he or his father of
the same name was a knight of the shire for Yorkshire in the parliament
of March 1452/3. In 1454 he was one of those commanded with the Earl
of Westmorland to raise the forces of the West Riding and march against
the insurgents in Lancashire. SIR WILLIAM GASCOIGNE was living 15 July
1461, when he received a pardon. His widow, Joan, married (2nd) by
license dated 13 Jan. 1463/4 JAMES HARRINGTON, Knt., of Hornby,
Yorkshire. They had three sons, John, Thomas and William.

References:

Thoroton & Throsby, Thoroton's Hist. of Nottinghamshire 1 (1790):
265-267 (Newmarch pedigree). Rowland, Noble Fam. of Nevill (1830).
Hunter South Yorkshire 2 (1831): 484. Coll. Top. & Gen. 1 (1834):
302-303 (Neville pedigree), 407; 6 (1840): 394-395. Surtees, Hist.
& Antiqs. of Durham 4 (1840): 158-163 (Nevill pedigrees). Tonge,
Vis. of Northern Counties 1530 (Surtees Soc. 41) (1863): 14-15
(Gascoigne pedigree: "Syr Willyam Gascoyn, the iij son of Willyam,
and heyre, married Jane, doughter to John Nevill, baron of Owseley, and
lord of Woumersley") (Gascoigne arms: Argent, on a pale sable, the
head of a conger eel or). Foster, Peds. of Fams. of Yorkshire (1874).
Flower, Vis. of Yorkshire 1563-4 (H.S.P. 16) (1881): 133-136
(Gascoigne pedigree: "Dame Jane doghter & heyr to John Nevell Baron
of Owseley and Lord of Wymesley [1] = Sir William Gaskon son and heyr,
[2] = Sir James Haryngton 2 husband to Dame Jane & had issu."),
223-224 (Newmarch pedigree: "Jane Nevell doughter & heyre, [1] =
William Gaskon Esq. of Gawthorpe, [2] = Sir James Harrington Knight
second husband."). Genealogist n.s. 20 (1904): 158-160. Mundy,
Middlesex Peds. (H.S.P. 65) (1914): 53-54 (Harington pedigree: "Sr
James Harington knt. attainted. = Jane d. & heire of John Neuell lord
of Ousley widdow of Sr William Gascoign knt."). Harvey et al., Vis.
of the North 3 (Surtees Soc. 144) (1930): 23-32 (Neville pedigree:
"Elizabeth [Nevill] primo nupta Gascoigne militi postea Iacobo
Harington militi"), 151 (Neville pedigree: "Iohanna filia et heres
Iohannis Neuille = 1. Dominus Willelmus Gascoigne miles, = 2. Iacobus
Harington miles dominus de Hornebie"). Gooder, Parliamentary
Representation of York 1 (Yorkshire Arch. Soc. Recs. 91) (1935):
186-188 (biog. of William Gascoigne). TAG 17 (1940-41): 105-109.
Twemlow, Manor of Tyrley (Colls. Hist. Staffs. 3rd Ser. 1945-6)
(1948): 38-43, 67-73. Paget, Lineage & Anc. of Prince Charles 2
(1977): 411.

Children of Joan Neville, by William Gascoigne, Knt.:

i. WILLIAM GASCOIGNE, Knt. [see next].
ii. MARGARET GASCOIGNE, married CHRISTOPHER WARDE, Knt., of Givendale,
Yorkshire. [see TUNSTALL 10].

12. WILLIAM GASCOIGNE, Knt., of Gawthorpe, Yorkshire, Tyrley,
Staffordshire, etc., Justice of the Peace for the West Riding,
Yorkshire, Knight of the Body for King Richard III, son and heir, born
about 1450. He married before 1469 MARGARET PERCY, daughter of Henry
Percy, Knt., 3rd Earl of Northumberland, 6th Lord Percy, by Eleanor,
daughter and heiress of Richard Poynings, Knt. [see PERCY 12 for her
ancestry]. They had six sons, William, Knt., Henry, Thomas, Henry
(again), John, and Thomas (again) and seven daughters, Margaret (wife
of Ralph, Lord Ogle), Eleanor, Maud, Joan, Elizabeth, Anne (or Agnes),
and Dorothy. In 1480 he obtained a license to crenellate his house at
Gawthorpe and impark over 2,000 acres of his demesne. He was knighted
by Richard, Duke of Gloucester (afterwards King Richard III), on
campaign near Berwick in 1481. He was present at the Battle of
Bosworth in 1485. SIR WILLIAM GASCOIGNE died 12 March 1487.

References:

Coll. Top. & Gen. 1 (1834): 298 (Percy pedigree), 302-303 (Neville
pedigree); 6 (1840): 394-395. Tonge, Vis. of Northern Counties 1530
(Surtees Soc. 41) (1863): 14-15 (Gascoigne pedigree: "Syr Willyam
Gascoyn, the iiijth of that name, son of Willyam, maried Margaret,
[doughter] to Henry Erle of Northumberland"). Foster, Peds. of Fams.
of Yorkshire (1874): Gascoigne chart. Flower Vis. of Yorkshire
1563-4 (H.S.P. 16) (1881): 133-136 (Gascoigne pedigree: "Sir
William Gaskon Knight, son & heyr to Sir William maryed = Margaret
doghter of Henry the 3 Earl of Northumberland."), 241-244 (Percy
pedigree: "Margaret [Percy] wyff to Sir William Gaskon.").
Genealogist n.s. 20 (1904): 158-160. Ruvigny and Raineval,
Plantagenet Roll: Mortimer-Percy 1 (1911): 2, 33. Harvey et al., Vis.
of the North 3 (Surtees Soc. 144) (1930): 18-20 (Percy pedigree:
"Margareta [Percy] nupta Willelmo Gascoyn militi"), 151 (Neville
pedigree: "Dominus Willelmus Gascoyn miles = Margareta filia comitis
Northumbrorum"). C.P. 9 (1936): 717, footnote d (sub
Northumberland). Twemlow, Manor of Tyrley (Colls. Hist. Staffs. 3rd
Ser. 1945-6) (1948): 38-43, 67-73. Kirby, Plumpton Letters &
Papers (Camden Soc. 5th Ser. 8) (1996): 54 (William, then Esq., called
"brother" by Henry Percy, 4th Earl of Northumberland), 316 (biog.
of Sir William Gascoigne).

Children of William Gascoigne, Knt., by Margaret Percy:

i. ANNE (or AGNES) GASCOIGNE, married THOMAS FAIRFAX, Knt., of Walton,
Yorkshire [see FAIRFAX 12].
ii. ELIZABETH GASCOIGNE, married GEORGE TAILBOYS, Knt., de jure Lord
Kyme, styled Earl of Angus [see TAILBOYS 12].
iii. DOROTHY GASCOIGNE, married NINIAN MARKENFIELD, Knt., of
Markenfield, Yorkshire [see MAULEVERER 13].

Steve Barnhoorn

Re: Violation of netiquette: was Re: William Gascoigne's des

Legg inn av Steve Barnhoorn » 15 okt 2005 23:33:15

And this line was also available and covered in Douglas Richardson's
Plantagent Ancestry:

http://www.royalancestry.net/Publicatio ... estry.html

Personally I have no problem with Doug plugging his book. From one who
is a maternal descendant of Ralph Nevill and Mary Ferrers, I am glad he
corrected Will Johnson's post. Thanks Doug, you beat me to the punch.

Steve Barnhoorn

CED

Re: Violation of netiquette: was Re: William Gascoigne's des

Legg inn av CED » 16 okt 2005 00:10:06

Steve Barnhoorn wrote:
And this line was also available and covered in Douglas Richardson's
Plantagent Ancestry:

http://www.royalancestry.net/Publicatio ... estry.html

Personally I have no problem with Doug plugging his book.

Mr. Barnhoorn:

You may have no regard for the rules of netiquette; but others do.
What other rules of netiquette would you disregard? Publishing private
communications?

You should possibly have noticed that Richardson is plugging his books
more often and more blantantly of late. Some of his posts appear to
have plugging as their primary (if not only) purpose (the post adds has
else).

Richardson could, if he were not plugging, simply note a correction and
a source without the advertising features almost invariably included in
his posts.

Could it be that, as in the case of the number of his claquers, his
sales are not meeting hopes and aspirations?

CED

From one who
is a maternal descendant of Ralph Nevill and Mary Ferrers, I am glad he
corrected Will Johnson's post. Thanks Doug, you beat me to the punch.

Steve Barnhoorn

Leo van de Pas

OT Richardson Re: Violation of netiquette: was Re: William G

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 16 okt 2005 00:46:01

If we had a moderated group we would have a lot less disharmony and
hopefully a lot more genealogy. Richardson for years has flagrantly ignored
the rules and requests to stick to the rules. As a "trained historian and
genealogist" he knows better, rules apparently do not apply to him.

Richardson announced a while back that he and his editor were starting a
webpage with additions and corrections to both his books, does anyone know
whether they exist now?
I cannot remember having seen an announcement.
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia


----- Original Message -----
From: "CED" <leesmyth@cox.net>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 7:24 AM
Subject: Violation of netiquette: was Re: William Gascoigne's descent from
Ralph Neville, 1st Earl of Westmorland


Douglas Richardson wrote:
Dear Newsgroup ~

The Gascoigne-Neville pedigree that Will Johnson has set forth is
actually quite sound. This descent is covered in depth by my book,
Magna Carta Ancestry (2005), pp. 364-366, a copy of which information
is presented below. For those interested in obtaining a copy of the
Magna Carta Ancestry book, please contact me privately.

To the newsgroup:

This posting by Richardson is in flagrant violation of netiquette, as
is obvious from the definition set out below. If we had a moderated
group, such a breach could be avoided.

CED

'netiquette [from "network etiquette"] n The conventions of politeness
recognized in discussion forums, such as avoidance of cross-posting to
inappropriate forums and refraining from commercial pluggery outside
the business forums.'






One note of correction: In his post, Mr. Johnson identified Sir Ralph
Neville, of Oversley, Warwickshire, died 1458, as a son of Sir Ralph
Neville, 1st Earl of Westmorland, by his 2nd wife, Joan Beaufort. This
is wrong. Sir Ralph (died 1458) was actually the son of the elder Sir
Ralph by his 1st wife, Margaret Stafford, as indicated below, not his
2nd wife, Joan Beaufort.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

Website: http://www.royalancestry.net

+ + + + + + + + + + + +
Source: Magna Carta Ancestry (2005), pp. 364-366.

ROGER LE BIGOD, Earl of Norfolk, married IDA _____.
MARY LE BIGOD, married RANULPH FITZ ROBERT, of Middleham, Yorkshire.
RALPH FITZ RANULPH, Knt., of Middleham, Yorkshire, married ANASTASIA DE
PERCY.
MARY FITZ RANULPH, married ROBERT DE NEVILLE, of Middleham, Yorkshire.
RANULPH DE NEVILLE, Knt., 1st Lord Neville of Raby, married EUPHEME DE
CLAVERING.
RALPH DE NEVILLE, Knt., 2nd Lord Neville of Raby, married ALICE DE
AUDLEY.
JOHN DE NEVILLE, Knt., K.G., 3rd Lord Neville of Raby, married MAUD DE
PERCY.
RALPH NEVILLE, K.G., 1st Earl of Westmorland, married MARGARET STAFFORD
[see NEVILLE 8].

9. RALPH NEVILLE, Knt., in right of his wife, of Oversley, Warwickshire
and Tyrley, Staffordshire, 2nd son. He married before 1411 MARY
FERRERS, younger daughter and co-heiress of Robert Ferrers, Knt., 2nd
Lord Ferrers of Wem, by Joan Beaufort, legitimated daughter of John of
Gaunt, K.G., Duke of Aquitaine and Lancaster, Earl of Derby, Lincoln,
and Leicester (son of King Edward III) [see WEM 8 for her ancestry].
She was born about 1394 (aged 17 in 1411). They had one son, John,
Esq., and one daughter, Jane (wife of Walter Griffith). His wife,
Mary, died 25 Jan. 1457/8. SIR RALPH NEVILLE died 26 Feb. 1457/8.

References:

Garbet, Hist. of Wem (1818): 31-40. Rowland, Noble Fam. of Nevill
(1830). Surtees, Hist. & Antiqs. of Durham 4 (1840): 158-163 (Nevill
pedigrees). Tonge Vis. of Northern Counties 1530 (Surtees Soc. 41)
(1863): 14-15 (Neville pedigree), 28-29 (Neville pedigree: "Rauff
[Neville], ii'de son") [Neville arms: Gules, on a saltire argent, a
lily (?) azure]. Trans. Leicestershire Architectural & Arch. Soc. 1
(1866): 316-340. Genealogist n.s. 3 (1886): 31-35, 107-111
(Neville pedigree: "Radulphum de Neuille, Militem"); n.s. 20
(1904): 159-160. Desc. Cat. of Ancient Deeds 2 (1894): 418. Mundy,
Middlesex Peds. (H.S.P. 65) (1914): 53-54 (Harington pedigree:
"Raffe Nevill. =Mary d. & coheire of Robert Ferrers Baron of
Owesley."). Harvey et al., Vis. of the North 3 (Surtees Soc. 144)
(1930): 23-32 (Neville pedigree: "dominus Radulphus Nevill miles
baro de Ousley per vxorem"), (Neville pedigree: "Maria [Ferrers]
nupta Radulpho Neuill ijdo filio comitis Westmerland"). TAG 17
(1940-41): 105-109. Twemlow, Manor of Tyrley (Colls. Hist. Staffs.
3rd Ser. 1945-6) (1948): 38-43, 67-73. Paget, Baronage of England
(1957) 6: 15, 404: 13.

10. JOHN NEVILLE, Esq., of Oversley, Warwickshire, and Tyrley,
Staffordshire, Knight of the Shire for Lincolnshire, and Sheriff of
Lincolnshire, son and heir, about 1418 (aged 40 in 1458). He married
(1st) ELIZABETH NEWMARCH, daughter of Robert Newmarch, of Womersley,
Whatton, etc., by Joan, daughter of Hugh Shirley, Knt., of Eatington,
Warwickshire [see NEWMARCH 8 for her ancestry]. She was born about
1417-18 (aged 40 in 1457-58). They had one daughter, Joan.
Elizabeth was heiress after 1428 to her brother, John Newmarch, by
which she inherited the manors of Womersley and Askerne, Yorkshire,
Althorpe, Lincolnshire, and Whatton, Nottinghamshire. He married (2nd)
about 1467 MARGARET PLUMPTON, widow of George Darrell, Knt. (died 30
March 1466), and daughter of William Plumpton, Knt. They had no issue.
JOHN NEVILLE, Esq., died intestate 17 March 1481/2. His widow,
Margaret, died 14 May 1487.

References: Thoroton & Throsby, Thoroton's Hist. of Nottinghamshire 1
(1790): 265-267 (Newmarch pedigree). Rowland, Noble Fam. of Nevill
(1830). Coll. Top. & Gen. 1 (1834): 302-303 (Neville pedigree), 407;
6 (1840): 394-395. Surtees, Hist. & Antiqs. of Durham 4 (1840):
158-163 (Nevill pedigrees). Tonge, Vis. of Northern Counties 1530
(Surtees Soc. 41) (1863): 14-15 (Neville pedigree: Newmarch arms:
Gules, five fusils in fess or). Flower, Vis. of Yorkshire 1563-4
(H.S.P. 16) (1881): 223-224 (Newmarch pedigree: "John Nevell son &
heyr. = Elsabeth doughter of Robert Newmarch & heyr to her Brother
Raff."). Genealogist n.s. 20 (1904): 158-160. Mundy, Middlesex
Peds. (H.S.P. 65) (1914): 53-54 (Harington pedigree: "John Neuill
lord of Wymersley. = Elizabeth d. & heire of Robert Newmarch.").
Harvey et al., Vis. of the North 3 (Surtees Soc. 144) (1930): 23-32
(Neville pedigree: "Iohannes Nevill armiger de Wormesley"), 151
(Neville pedigree: "Iohannes Neville de Wymersley [1] = Elizabeth
filia et heres Roberti Newmarch de Wymersley, [2] = Margareta filia
domini Willelmi Plumton militis relicta Georgij Darell militis").
TAG 17 (1940-41): 105-109. Twemlow, Manor of Tyrley (Colls. Hist.
Staffs. 3rd Ser. 1945-6) (1948): 38-43, 67-73. Paget, Baronage of
England (1957) 6: 15, 404: 13. NEHGR 104 (1950): 270.

11. JOAN NEVILLE, daughter and heiress. She married (1st) WILLIAM
GASCOIGNE, Knt., of Gawthorpe, Yorkshire, and, in right of his wife, of
Oversley, Warwickshire, Tyrley, Staffordshire, Womersley, Yorkshire,
and Whatton, Nottinghamshire, son and heir of William Gascoigne, Knt.,
of Gawthorpe, Yorkshire, by Margaret, daughter of Thomas Clarell, Esq.
[see CLARELL 7.iii for his ancestry]. They had three sons, William,
Knt., John, and Humphrey, and four daughters, Margaret, Agnes (wife of
Robert Plumpton, Knt.), Elizabeth and Joan. Either he or his father of
the same name was a knight of the shire for Yorkshire in the parliament
of March 1452/3. In 1454 he was one of those commanded with the Earl
of Westmorland to raise the forces of the West Riding and march against
the insurgents in Lancashire. SIR WILLIAM GASCOIGNE was living 15 July
1461, when he received a pardon. His widow, Joan, married (2nd) by
license dated 13 Jan. 1463/4 JAMES HARRINGTON, Knt., of Hornby,
Yorkshire. They had three sons, John, Thomas and William.

References:

Thoroton & Throsby, Thoroton's Hist. of Nottinghamshire 1 (1790):
265-267 (Newmarch pedigree). Rowland, Noble Fam. of Nevill (1830).
Hunter South Yorkshire 2 (1831): 484. Coll. Top. & Gen. 1 (1834):
302-303 (Neville pedigree), 407; 6 (1840): 394-395. Surtees, Hist.
& Antiqs. of Durham 4 (1840): 158-163 (Nevill pedigrees). Tonge,
Vis. of Northern Counties 1530 (Surtees Soc. 41) (1863): 14-15
(Gascoigne pedigree: "Syr Willyam Gascoyn, the iij son of Willyam,
and heyre, married Jane, doughter to John Nevill, baron of Owseley, and
lord of Woumersley") (Gascoigne arms: Argent, on a pale sable, the
head of a conger eel or). Foster, Peds. of Fams. of Yorkshire (1874).
Flower, Vis. of Yorkshire 1563-4 (H.S.P. 16) (1881): 133-136
(Gascoigne pedigree: "Dame Jane doghter & heyr to John Nevell Baron
of Owseley and Lord of Wymesley [1] = Sir William Gaskon son and heyr,
[2] = Sir James Haryngton 2 husband to Dame Jane & had issu."),
223-224 (Newmarch pedigree: "Jane Nevell doughter & heyre, [1] =
William Gaskon Esq. of Gawthorpe, [2] = Sir James Harrington Knight
second husband."). Genealogist n.s. 20 (1904): 158-160. Mundy,
Middlesex Peds. (H.S.P. 65) (1914): 53-54 (Harington pedigree: "Sr
James Harington knt. attainted. = Jane d. & heire of John Neuell lord
of Ousley widdow of Sr William Gascoign knt."). Harvey et al., Vis.
of the North 3 (Surtees Soc. 144) (1930): 23-32 (Neville pedigree:
"Elizabeth [Nevill] primo nupta Gascoigne militi postea Iacobo
Harington militi"), 151 (Neville pedigree: "Iohanna filia et heres
Iohannis Neuille = 1. Dominus Willelmus Gascoigne miles, = 2. Iacobus
Harington miles dominus de Hornebie"). Gooder, Parliamentary
Representation of York 1 (Yorkshire Arch. Soc. Recs. 91) (1935):
186-188 (biog. of William Gascoigne). TAG 17 (1940-41): 105-109.
Twemlow, Manor of Tyrley (Colls. Hist. Staffs. 3rd Ser. 1945-6)
(1948): 38-43, 67-73. Paget, Lineage & Anc. of Prince Charles 2
(1977): 411.

Children of Joan Neville, by William Gascoigne, Knt.:

i. WILLIAM GASCOIGNE, Knt. [see next].
ii. MARGARET GASCOIGNE, married CHRISTOPHER WARDE, Knt., of Givendale,
Yorkshire. [see TUNSTALL 10].

12. WILLIAM GASCOIGNE, Knt., of Gawthorpe, Yorkshire, Tyrley,
Staffordshire, etc., Justice of the Peace for the West Riding,
Yorkshire, Knight of the Body for King Richard III, son and heir, born
about 1450. He married before 1469 MARGARET PERCY, daughter of Henry
Percy, Knt., 3rd Earl of Northumberland, 6th Lord Percy, by Eleanor,
daughter and heiress of Richard Poynings, Knt. [see PERCY 12 for her
ancestry]. They had six sons, William, Knt., Henry, Thomas, Henry
(again), John, and Thomas (again) and seven daughters, Margaret (wife
of Ralph, Lord Ogle), Eleanor, Maud, Joan, Elizabeth, Anne (or Agnes),
and Dorothy. In 1480 he obtained a license to crenellate his house at
Gawthorpe and impark over 2,000 acres of his demesne. He was knighted
by Richard, Duke of Gloucester (afterwards King Richard III), on
campaign near Berwick in 1481. He was present at the Battle of
Bosworth in 1485. SIR WILLIAM GASCOIGNE died 12 March 1487.

References:

Coll. Top. & Gen. 1 (1834): 298 (Percy pedigree), 302-303 (Neville
pedigree); 6 (1840): 394-395. Tonge, Vis. of Northern Counties 1530
(Surtees Soc. 41) (1863): 14-15 (Gascoigne pedigree: "Syr Willyam
Gascoyn, the iiijth of that name, son of Willyam, maried Margaret,
[doughter] to Henry Erle of Northumberland"). Foster, Peds. of Fams.
of Yorkshire (1874): Gascoigne chart. Flower Vis. of Yorkshire
1563-4 (H.S.P. 16) (1881): 133-136 (Gascoigne pedigree: "Sir
William Gaskon Knight, son & heyr to Sir William maryed = Margaret
doghter of Henry the 3 Earl of Northumberland."), 241-244 (Percy
pedigree: "Margaret [Percy] wyff to Sir William Gaskon.").
Genealogist n.s. 20 (1904): 158-160. Ruvigny and Raineval,
Plantagenet Roll: Mortimer-Percy 1 (1911): 2, 33. Harvey et al., Vis.
of the North 3 (Surtees Soc. 144) (1930): 18-20 (Percy pedigree:
"Margareta [Percy] nupta Willelmo Gascoyn militi"), 151 (Neville
pedigree: "Dominus Willelmus Gascoyn miles = Margareta filia comitis
Northumbrorum"). C.P. 9 (1936): 717, footnote d (sub
Northumberland). Twemlow, Manor of Tyrley (Colls. Hist. Staffs. 3rd
Ser. 1945-6) (1948): 38-43, 67-73. Kirby, Plumpton Letters &
Papers (Camden Soc. 5th Ser. 8) (1996): 54 (William, then Esq., called
"brother" by Henry Percy, 4th Earl of Northumberland), 316 (biog.
of Sir William Gascoigne).

Children of William Gascoigne, Knt., by Margaret Percy:

i. ANNE (or AGNES) GASCOIGNE, married THOMAS FAIRFAX, Knt., of Walton,
Yorkshire [see FAIRFAX 12].
ii. ELIZABETH GASCOIGNE, married GEORGE TAILBOYS, Knt., de jure Lord
Kyme, styled Earl of Angus [see TAILBOYS 12].
iii. DOROTHY GASCOIGNE, married NINIAN MARKENFIELD, Knt., of
Markenfield, Yorkshire [see MAULEVERER 13].


Leo van de Pas

Re: Violation of netiquette: was Re: William Gascoigne's des

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 16 okt 2005 00:53:01

Making corrections is very much appreciated, "plugging" his book is not. If
he did it once I would be glad to be made aware his books exist, but the
continual advertising is not as it should be.
Leo

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Barnhoorn" <sbarnhoorn@mail.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 8:33 AM
Subject: Re: Violation of netiquette: was Re: William Gascoigne's descent
from Ralph Neville, 1st Earl of Westmorland


And this line was also available and covered in Douglas Richardson's
Plantagent Ancestry:

http://www.royalancestry.net/Publicatio ... estry.html

Personally I have no problem with Doug plugging his book. From one who
is a maternal descendant of Ralph Nevill and Mary Ferrers, I am glad he
corrected Will Johnson's post. Thanks Doug, you beat me to the punch.

Steve Barnhoorn


Steve Barnhoorn

Re: Violation of netiquette: was Re: William Gascoigne's des

Legg inn av Steve Barnhoorn » 16 okt 2005 01:23:32

If Doug Richardson engaged in profanity on the site, I'd have a big
problem. I fail to see what harm he is creating by plugging his book.
Sorry but I must politely disagree.

Regards,

SB

Todd A. Farmerie

Re: Violation of netiquette: was Re: William Gascoigne's des

Legg inn av Todd A. Farmerie » 16 okt 2005 02:06:03

Steve Barnhoorn wrote:
If Doug Richardson engaged in profanity on the site, I'd have a big
problem. I fail to see what harm he is creating by plugging his book.
Sorry but I must politely disagree.

In the grand scheme of things, no, we are not talking about murder,
child molestation, or (as one of my ancestors was arrested for) walking
home on a (gasp) Sunday. However, he _is_ violating the charter (i.e.
'the rules') of this group and of the umbrella soc.genealogy.* groups,
under which soc.genealogy.marketplace was created for the hawking of
genealogical wares, explicitly so that the remaining groups would be
free of that type of content. Simply put, there is a place for
advertisements, and this ain't it.

Is a plug every now and then going to bring down civilization?
Certainly not, but Mr. Richardson is not the only participant here with
something on the market, just the only one with such contempt for this
rule. If they all dropped a plug into every thread, it would degrade
(further) the quality of the discussion in this group. Like those who
refuse to have their children vaccinated, it is only the responsible
behavior of others in the same position that makes his irresponsible
behavior seem inconsequential.

taf

Todd A. Farmerie

Re: Violation of netiquette: was Re: William Gascoigne's des

Legg inn av Todd A. Farmerie » 16 okt 2005 02:07:23

Steve Barnhoorn wrote:
If Doug Richardson engaged in profanity on the site, I'd have a big
problem. I fail to see what harm he is creating by plugging his book.
Sorry but I must politely disagree.

In the grand scheme of things, no, we are not talking about murder,
child molestation, or (as one of my ancestors was arrested for) walking
home on a (gasp) Sunday. However, he _is_ violating the charter (i.e.
'the rules') of this group and of the umbrella soc.genealogy.* groups,
under which soc.genealogy.marketplace was created for the hawking of
genealogical wares, explicitly so that the remaining groups would be
free of that type of content. Simply put, there is a place for
advertisements, and this ain't it.

Is a plug every now and then going to bring down civilization?
Certainly not, but Mr. Richardson is not the only participant here with
something on the market, just the only one with such contempt for this
rule. If they all dropped a plug into every thread, it would degrade
(further) the quality of the discussion in this group. Like those who
refuse to have their children vaccinated, it is only the responsible
behavior of others in the same position that makes his irresponsible
behavior seem inconsequential.

taf

D. Spencer Hines

Re: Violation of netiquette: was Re: William Gascoigne's des

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 16 okt 2005 03:16:01

Why did taf have to post this gibberish twice?

DSH

"Todd A. Farmerie" <farmerie@interfold.com> wrote in message
news:dis94s$has$1@eeyore.INS.cwru.edu...

<baldersnip>

CED

Re: Violation of netiquette: was Re: William Gascoigne's des

Legg inn av CED » 16 okt 2005 03:41:24

"Merilyn Pedrick" wrote:
Todd Farmerie wrote:

Like those who refuse to have their children vaccinated, it is only the
responsible
behavior of others in the same position that makes his irresponsible
behavior seem inconsequential.

Oh dear Todd - I fear you may have started a new flame war!
Merilyn

To the Newsgroup:

Since when is calling attention to the terms of netiquette starting a
flame war?

We should thank TAF for assisting in an attempt to keep this newsgroup.

If anybody started a flame war, it was Richardson's boldly and
unnecessarily plugging his book, contrary to netiquette.

No one takes Hines seriously (his condition, you know). Don't even
consider Hines' posts as being in a flame war. He can't help himself.

CED

Merilyn Pedrick

Re: Violation of netiquette: was Re: William Gascoigne's des

Legg inn av Merilyn Pedrick » 16 okt 2005 04:03:02

Todd Farmerie wrote:

Like those who refuse to have their children vaccinated, it is only the
responsible
behavior of others in the same position that makes his irresponsible
behavior seem inconsequential.

Oh dear Todd - I fear you may have started a new flame war!
Merilyn

CED

Re: Violation of netiquette: was Re: William Gascoigne's des

Legg inn av CED » 16 okt 2005 04:07:05

"Merilyn Pedrick" wrote:
I was merely referring to the mention of vaccination - I know that there
are many who would get their knickers in a knot about that!
Merilyn

Merilyn,

Sorry I over reacted. I don't understand how mentioning vaccination
could start a flame war; but don't tell me; lest that do it.

Best regards,

CED



-------Original Message-------

From: CED
Date: 10/16/05 12:17:57
To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: Violation of netiquette: was Re: William Gascoigne's descent
from Ralph Neville, 1st Earl of Westmorland

"Merilyn Pedrick" wrote:
Todd Farmerie wrote:

Like those who refuse to have their children vaccinated, it is only the
responsible
behavior of others in the same position that makes his irresponsible
behavior seem inconsequential.

Oh dear Todd - I fear you may have started a new flame war!
Merilyn

To the Newsgroup:

Since when is calling attention to the terms of netiquette starting a
flame war?

We should thank TAF for assisting in an attempt to keep this newsgroup.

If anybody started a flame war, it was Richardson's boldly and
unnecessarily plugging his book, contrary to netiquette.

No one takes Hines seriously (his condition, you know). Don't even
consider Hines' posts as being in a flame war. He can't help himself.

CED

D. Spencer Hines

Re: Violation of netiquette: was Re: William Gascoigne's des

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 16 okt 2005 04:09:01

Hmmmmmmm...

Yes, he was probably bored by the old one.

DSH

""Merilyn Pedrick"" <pedricks@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
news:4351B4AB.000001.00328@MERILYNS...
|
| Todd Farmerie wrote:
|
| >Like those who refuse to have their children vaccinated, it is only
the
| responsible
| >behavior of others in the same position that makes his irresponsible
| >behavior seem inconsequential.
|
| Oh dear Todd - I fear you may have started a new flame war!
| Merilyn

Merilyn Pedrick

Re: Violation of netiquette: was Re: William Gascoigne's des

Legg inn av Merilyn Pedrick » 16 okt 2005 05:16:03

I was merely referring to the mention of vaccination - I know that there
are many who would get their knickers in a knot about that!
Merilyn

-------Original Message-------

From: CED
Date: 10/16/05 12:17:57
To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: Violation of netiquette: was Re: William Gascoigne's descent
from Ralph Neville, 1st Earl of Westmorland

"Merilyn Pedrick" wrote:
Todd Farmerie wrote:

Like those who refuse to have their children vaccinated, it is only the
responsible
behavior of others in the same position that makes his irresponsible
behavior seem inconsequential.

Oh dear Todd - I fear you may have started a new flame war!
Merilyn

To the Newsgroup:

Since when is calling attention to the terms of netiquette starting a
flame war?

We should thank TAF for assisting in an attempt to keep this newsgroup.

If anybody started a flame war, it was Richardson's boldly and
unnecessarily plugging his book, contrary to netiquette.

No one takes Hines seriously (his condition, you know). Don't even
consider Hines' posts as being in a flame war. He can't help himself.

CED

Merilyn Pedrick

Re: Violation of netiquette: was Re: William Gascoigne's des

Legg inn av Merilyn Pedrick » 16 okt 2005 06:18:01

That's fine CED - and I won't mention the "V" word again, because to some,
it is just as contentious as all the other things we've been squabbling
about!
Merilyn

-------Original Message-------

From: CED
Date: 10/16/05 12:45:53
To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: Violation of netiquette: was Re: William Gascoigne's descent
from Ralph Neville, 1st Earl of Westmorland

"Merilyn Pedrick" wrote:
I was merely referring to the mention of vaccination - I know that there
are many who would get their knickers in a knot about that!
Merilyn

Merilyn,

Sorry I over reacted. I don't understand how mentioning vaccination
could start a flame war; but don't tell me; lest that do it.

Best regards,

CED



-------Original Message-------

From: CED
Date: 10/16/05 12:17:57
To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: Violation of netiquette: was Re: William Gascoigne's descent
from Ralph Neville, 1st Earl of Westmorland

"Merilyn Pedrick" wrote:
Todd Farmerie wrote:

Like those who refuse to have their children vaccinated, it is only the
responsible
behavior of others in the same position that makes his irresponsible
behavior seem inconsequential.

Oh dear Todd - I fear you may have started a new flame war!
Merilyn

To the Newsgroup:

Since when is calling attention to the terms of netiquette starting a
flame war?

We should thank TAF for assisting in an attempt to keep this newsgroup.

If anybody started a flame war, it was Richardson's boldly and
unnecessarily plugging his book, contrary to netiquette.

No one takes Hines seriously (his condition, you know). Don't even
consider Hines' posts as being in a flame war. He can't help himself.

CED

CED

Re: William Gascoigne's descent from Ralph Neville, 1st Earl

Legg inn av CED » 16 okt 2005 08:07:53

Douglas Richardson wrote:
Dear Newsgroup ~

The Gascoigne-Neville pedigree that Will Johnson has set forth is
actually quite sound. This descent is covered in depth by my book,
Magna Carta Ancestry (2005), pp. 364-366, a copy of which information
is presented below. For those interested in obtaining a copy of the
Magna Carta Ancestry book, please contact me privately.

One note of correction: In his post, Mr. Johnson identified Sir Ralph
Neville, of Oversley, Warwickshire, died 1458, as a son of Sir Ralph
Neville, 1st Earl of Westmorland, by his 2nd wife, Joan Beaufort. This
is wrong. Sir Ralph (died 1458) was actually the son of the elder Sir
Ralph by his 1st wife, Margaret Stafford, as indicated below, not his
2nd wife, Joan Beaufort.

To the Newsgroup:

In order to make the noted correction, Richardson's plugging his own
book is completely unnecessary. The Complete Peerage, at various
places is replete with information about Ralph Neville, 1st earl of
Westmorland, and his two wives, and his 23 children. Ralph Neville of
Oversley is duely attributed to the first marriage. If a single source
of several is to be cited, ordinary customs of scholarship hold that
the more widely accepted and more authoritative source should be cited:
in this case CP.

CED
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

Website: http://www.royalancestry.net

+ + + + + + + + + + + +
Source: Magna Carta Ancestry (2005), pp. 364-366.

ROGER LE BIGOD, Earl of Norfolk, married IDA _____.
MARY LE BIGOD, married RANULPH FITZ ROBERT, of Middleham, Yorkshire.
RALPH FITZ RANULPH, Knt., of Middleham, Yorkshire, married ANASTASIA DE
PERCY.
MARY FITZ RANULPH, married ROBERT DE NEVILLE, of Middleham, Yorkshire.
RANULPH DE NEVILLE, Knt., 1st Lord Neville of Raby, married EUPHEME DE
CLAVERING.
RALPH DE NEVILLE, Knt., 2nd Lord Neville of Raby, married ALICE DE
AUDLEY.
JOHN DE NEVILLE, Knt., K.G., 3rd Lord Neville of Raby, married MAUD DE
PERCY.
RALPH NEVILLE, K.G., 1st Earl of Westmorland, married MARGARET STAFFORD
[see NEVILLE 8].

9. RALPH NEVILLE, Knt., in right of his wife, of Oversley, Warwickshire
and Tyrley, Staffordshire, 2nd son. He married before 1411 MARY
FERRERS, younger daughter and co-heiress of Robert Ferrers, Knt., 2nd
Lord Ferrers of Wem, by Joan Beaufort, legitimated daughter of John of
Gaunt, K.G., Duke of Aquitaine and Lancaster, Earl of Derby, Lincoln,
and Leicester (son of King Edward III) [see WEM 8 for her ancestry].
She was born about 1394 (aged 17 in 1411). They had one son, John,
Esq., and one daughter, Jane (wife of Walter Griffith). His wife,
Mary, died 25 Jan. 1457/8. SIR RALPH NEVILLE died 26 Feb. 1457/8.

References:

Garbet, Hist. of Wem (1818): 31-40. Rowland, Noble Fam. of Nevill
(1830). Surtees, Hist. & Antiqs. of Durham 4 (1840): 158-163 (Nevill
pedigrees). Tonge Vis. of Northern Counties 1530 (Surtees Soc. 41)
(1863): 14-15 (Neville pedigree), 28-29 (Neville pedigree: "Rauff
[Neville], ii'de son") [Neville arms: Gules, on a saltire argent, a
lily (?) azure]. Trans. Leicestershire Architectural & Arch. Soc. 1
(1866): 316-340. Genealogist n.s. 3 (1886): 31-35, 107-111
(Neville pedigree: "Radulphum de Neuille, Militem"); n.s. 20
(1904): 159-160. Desc. Cat. of Ancient Deeds 2 (1894): 418. Mundy,
Middlesex Peds. (H.S.P. 65) (1914): 53-54 (Harington pedigree:
"Raffe Nevill. =Mary d. & coheire of Robert Ferrers Baron of
Owesley."). Harvey et al., Vis. of the North 3 (Surtees Soc. 144)
(1930): 23-32 (Neville pedigree: "dominus Radulphus Nevill miles
baro de Ousley per vxorem"), (Neville pedigree: "Maria [Ferrers]
nupta Radulpho Neuill ijdo filio comitis Westmerland"). TAG 17
(1940-41): 105-109. Twemlow, Manor of Tyrley (Colls. Hist. Staffs.
3rd Ser. 1945-6) (1948): 38-43, 67-73. Paget, Baronage of England
(1957) 6: 15, 404: 13.

10. JOHN NEVILLE, Esq., of Oversley, Warwickshire, and Tyrley,
Staffordshire, Knight of the Shire for Lincolnshire, and Sheriff of
Lincolnshire, son and heir, about 1418 (aged 40 in 1458). He married
(1st) ELIZABETH NEWMARCH, daughter of Robert Newmarch, of Womersley,
Whatton, etc., by Joan, daughter of Hugh Shirley, Knt., of Eatington,
Warwickshire [see NEWMARCH 8 for her ancestry]. She was born about
1417-18 (aged 40 in 1457-58). They had one daughter, Joan.
Elizabeth was heiress after 1428 to her brother, John Newmarch, by
which she inherited the manors of Womersley and Askerne, Yorkshire,
Althorpe, Lincolnshire, and Whatton, Nottinghamshire. He married (2nd)
about 1467 MARGARET PLUMPTON, widow of George Darrell, Knt. (died 30
March 1466), and daughter of William Plumpton, Knt. They had no issue.
JOHN NEVILLE, Esq., died intestate 17 March 1481/2. His widow,
Margaret, died 14 May 1487.

References: Thoroton & Throsby, Thoroton's Hist. of Nottinghamshire 1
(1790): 265-267 (Newmarch pedigree). Rowland, Noble Fam. of Nevill
(1830). Coll. Top. & Gen. 1 (1834): 302-303 (Neville pedigree), 407;
6 (1840): 394-395. Surtees, Hist. & Antiqs. of Durham 4 (1840):
158-163 (Nevill pedigrees). Tonge, Vis. of Northern Counties 1530
(Surtees Soc. 41) (1863): 14-15 (Neville pedigree: Newmarch arms:
Gules, five fusils in fess or). Flower, Vis. of Yorkshire 1563-4
(H.S.P. 16) (1881): 223-224 (Newmarch pedigree: "John Nevell son &
heyr. = Elsabeth doughter of Robert Newmarch & heyr to her Brother
Raff."). Genealogist n.s. 20 (1904): 158-160. Mundy, Middlesex
Peds. (H.S.P. 65) (1914): 53-54 (Harington pedigree: "John Neuill
lord of Wymersley. = Elizabeth d. & heire of Robert Newmarch.").
Harvey et al., Vis. of the North 3 (Surtees Soc. 144) (1930): 23-32
(Neville pedigree: "Iohannes Nevill armiger de Wormesley"), 151
(Neville pedigree: "Iohannes Neville de Wymersley [1] = Elizabeth
filia et heres Roberti Newmarch de Wymersley, [2] = Margareta filia
domini Willelmi Plumton militis relicta Georgij Darell militis").
TAG 17 (1940-41): 105-109. Twemlow, Manor of Tyrley (Colls. Hist.
Staffs. 3rd Ser. 1945-6) (1948): 38-43, 67-73. Paget, Baronage of
England (1957) 6: 15, 404: 13. NEHGR 104 (1950): 270.

11. JOAN NEVILLE, daughter and heiress. She married (1st) WILLIAM
GASCOIGNE, Knt., of Gawthorpe, Yorkshire, and, in right of his wife, of
Oversley, Warwickshire, Tyrley, Staffordshire, Womersley, Yorkshire,
and Whatton, Nottinghamshire, son and heir of William Gascoigne, Knt.,
of Gawthorpe, Yorkshire, by Margaret, daughter of Thomas Clarell, Esq.
[see CLARELL 7.iii for his ancestry]. They had three sons, William,
Knt., John, and Humphrey, and four daughters, Margaret, Agnes (wife of
Robert Plumpton, Knt.), Elizabeth and Joan. Either he or his father of
the same name was a knight of the shire for Yorkshire in the parliament
of March 1452/3. In 1454 he was one of those commanded with the Earl
of Westmorland to raise the forces of the West Riding and march against
the insurgents in Lancashire. SIR WILLIAM GASCOIGNE was living 15 July
1461, when he received a pardon. His widow, Joan, married (2nd) by
license dated 13 Jan. 1463/4 JAMES HARRINGTON, Knt., of Hornby,
Yorkshire. They had three sons, John, Thomas and William.

References:

Thoroton & Throsby, Thoroton's Hist. of Nottinghamshire 1 (1790):
265-267 (Newmarch pedigree). Rowland, Noble Fam. of Nevill (1830).
Hunter South Yorkshire 2 (1831): 484. Coll. Top. & Gen. 1 (1834):
302-303 (Neville pedigree), 407; 6 (1840): 394-395. Surtees, Hist.
& Antiqs. of Durham 4 (1840): 158-163 (Nevill pedigrees). Tonge,
Vis. of Northern Counties 1530 (Surtees Soc. 41) (1863): 14-15
(Gascoigne pedigree: "Syr Willyam Gascoyn, the iij son of Willyam,
and heyre, married Jane, doughter to John Nevill, baron of Owseley, and
lord of Woumersley") (Gascoigne arms: Argent, on a pale sable, the
head of a conger eel or). Foster, Peds. of Fams. of Yorkshire (1874).
Flower, Vis. of Yorkshire 1563-4 (H.S.P. 16) (1881): 133-136
(Gascoigne pedigree: "Dame Jane doghter & heyr to John Nevell Baron
of Owseley and Lord of Wymesley [1] = Sir William Gaskon son and heyr,
[2] = Sir James Haryngton 2 husband to Dame Jane & had issu."),
223-224 (Newmarch pedigree: "Jane Nevell doughter & heyre, [1] =
William Gaskon Esq. of Gawthorpe, [2] = Sir James Harrington Knight
second husband."). Genealogist n.s. 20 (1904): 158-160. Mundy,
Middlesex Peds. (H.S.P. 65) (1914): 53-54 (Harington pedigree: "Sr
James Harington knt. attainted. = Jane d. & heire of John Neuell lord
of Ousley widdow of Sr William Gascoign knt."). Harvey et al., Vis.
of the North 3 (Surtees Soc. 144) (1930): 23-32 (Neville pedigree:
"Elizabeth [Nevill] primo nupta Gascoigne militi postea Iacobo
Harington militi"), 151 (Neville pedigree: "Iohanna filia et heres
Iohannis Neuille = 1. Dominus Willelmus Gascoigne miles, = 2. Iacobus
Harington miles dominus de Hornebie"). Gooder, Parliamentary
Representation of York 1 (Yorkshire Arch. Soc. Recs. 91) (1935):
186-188 (biog. of William Gascoigne). TAG 17 (1940-41): 105-109.
Twemlow, Manor of Tyrley (Colls. Hist. Staffs. 3rd Ser. 1945-6)
(1948): 38-43, 67-73. Paget, Lineage & Anc. of Prince Charles 2
(1977): 411.

Children of Joan Neville, by William Gascoigne, Knt.:

i. WILLIAM GASCOIGNE, Knt. [see next].
ii. MARGARET GASCOIGNE, married CHRISTOPHER WARDE, Knt., of Givendale,
Yorkshire. [see TUNSTALL 10].

12. WILLIAM GASCOIGNE, Knt., of Gawthorpe, Yorkshire, Tyrley,
Staffordshire, etc., Justice of the Peace for the West Riding,
Yorkshire, Knight of the Body for King Richard III, son and heir, born
about 1450. He married before 1469 MARGARET PERCY, daughter of Henry
Percy, Knt., 3rd Earl of Northumberland, 6th Lord Percy, by Eleanor,
daughter and heiress of Richard Poynings, Knt. [see PERCY 12 for her
ancestry]. They had six sons, William, Knt., Henry, Thomas, Henry
(again), John, and Thomas (again) and seven daughters, Margaret (wife
of Ralph, Lord Ogle), Eleanor, Maud, Joan, Elizabeth, Anne (or Agnes),
and Dorothy. In 1480 he obtained a license to crenellate his house at
Gawthorpe and impark over 2,000 acres of his demesne. He was knighted
by Richard, Duke of Gloucester (afterwards King Richard III), on
campaign near Berwick in 1481. He was present at the Battle of
Bosworth in 1485. SIR WILLIAM GASCOIGNE died 12 March 1487.

References:

Coll. Top. & Gen. 1 (1834): 298 (Percy pedigree), 302-303 (Neville
pedigree); 6 (1840): 394-395. Tonge, Vis. of Northern Counties 1530
(Surtees Soc. 41) (1863): 14-15 (Gascoigne pedigree: "Syr Willyam
Gascoyn, the iiijth of that name, son of Willyam, maried Margaret,
[doughter] to Henry Erle of Northumberland"). Foster, Peds. of Fams.
of Yorkshire (1874): Gascoigne chart. Flower Vis. of Yorkshire
1563-4 (H.S.P. 16) (1881): 133-136 (Gascoigne pedigree: "Sir
William Gaskon Knight, son & heyr to Sir William maryed = Margaret
doghter of Henry the 3 Earl of Northumberland."), 241-244 (Percy
pedigree: "Margaret [Percy] wyff to Sir William Gaskon.").
Genealogist n.s. 20 (1904): 158-160. Ruvigny and Raineval,
Plantagenet Roll: Mortimer-Percy 1 (1911): 2, 33. Harvey et al., Vis.
of the North 3 (Surtees Soc. 144) (1930): 18-20 (Percy pedigree:
"Margareta [Percy] nupta Willelmo Gascoyn militi"), 151 (Neville
pedigree: "Dominus Willelmus Gascoyn miles = Margareta filia comitis
Northumbrorum"). C.P. 9 (1936): 717, footnote d (sub
Northumberland). Twemlow, Manor of Tyrley (Colls. Hist. Staffs. 3rd
Ser. 1945-6) (1948): 38-43, 67-73. Kirby, Plumpton Letters &
Papers (Camden Soc. 5th Ser. 8) (1996): 54 (William, then Esq., called
"brother" by Henry Percy, 4th Earl of Northumberland), 316 (biog.
of Sir William Gascoigne).

Children of William Gascoigne, Knt., by Margaret Percy:

i. ANNE (or AGNES) GASCOIGNE, married THOMAS FAIRFAX, Knt., of Walton,
Yorkshire [see FAIRFAX 12].
ii. ELIZABETH GASCOIGNE, married GEORGE TAILBOYS, Knt., de jure Lord
Kyme, styled Earl of Angus [see TAILBOYS 12].
iii. DOROTHY GASCOIGNE, married NINIAN MARKENFIELD, Knt., of
Markenfield, Yorkshire [see MAULEVERER 13].

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