Karl Hundesson

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Le Bateman

Karl Hundesson

Legg inn av Le Bateman » 08 okt 2005 22:30:02

Does anyone know anything about Karl HUNDESSON?
Le

Todd A. Farmerie

Re: Karl Hundesson

Legg inn av Todd A. Farmerie » 08 okt 2005 23:16:24

Le Bateman wrote:
Does anyone know anything about Karl HUNDESSON?

That is the name used in the Orkneyinga Saga for (IIRC) the Scotish
enemy of the Orkney jarls. It is thought to be a pseudonym (again IIRC,
Hundesson means "son of a dog"), and theories abound as to whom it is
meant to refer (Macbeth is the most common, but there are others). I
would recommend that you consult the archives - it has been discussed in
the past, although in a manner that may not shed any additional light.

taf

D. Spencer Hines

Re: Karl Hundesson

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 09 okt 2005 01:12:02

Today we might just say SOB.

DSH

"Todd A. Farmerie" <farmerie@interfold.com> wrote in message
news:4348453b@news.ColoState.EDU...

| Le Bateman wrote:

| > Does anyone know anything about Karl HUNDESSON?
|
| That is the name used in the Orkneyinga Saga for (IIRC) the Scotish
| enemy of the Orkney jarls. It is thought to be a pseudonym (again
IIRC,
| Hundesson means "son of a dog"), and theories abound as to whom it is
| meant to refer (Macbeth is the most common, but there are others). I
| would recommend that you consult the archives - it has been discussed
in
| the past, although in a manner that may not shed any additional light.
|
| taf

Todd A. Farmerie

Re: Karl Hundesson

Legg inn av Todd A. Farmerie » 09 okt 2005 06:02:50

Todd A. Farmerie wrote:
Le Bateman wrote:

Does anyone know anything about Karl HUNDESSON?


That is the name used in the Orkneyinga Saga for (IIRC) the Scotish
enemy of the Orkney jarls. It is thought to be a pseudonym (again IIRC,
Hundesson means "son of a dog"), and theories abound as to whom it is
meant to refer (Macbeth is the most common, but there are others). I
would recommend that you consult the archives - it has been discussed in
the past, although in a manner that may not shed any additional light.

I am now back home with my copy of the Orkneyinga Saga (Penguin
Classics, Palsson and Edwards, trans.), and can provide more detail.
Chapter 20 deals exclusively with the struggles between Thorfinn & Karl.
It states that Karl was "the next man to take over power" after "the
King of the Scots died". Earlier in the chapter, it refers to Malcolm,
King of the Scots, as grandfather of Thorfinn, so this would appear to
be reference to Malcolm II, who d. 1034. It then relates how Karl first
sent his nephew Muddan, who Thorfinn trounced, then Karl went after him
and himself got beat in a sea battle. Thorfinn then went after Karl and
first trapped Muddan in his home, set fire to it, and beheaded Muddan
when the latter tried to jump out a window, then he caught up with Karl
and "the hard fight which followed ended with Karl on the run. Some
people say he was killed there, . . ." Thorfinn then ravaged the
country on his way back home. The chapter concludes by saying "It was
around this time that Earl Brusi died and then Earl Thorfinn took over
the whole of Orkney."

Later chapters then relate the background of Rognevald Brusason, and
relate his return, and claim of a share, then refers to events in the
reign of Harthacanute. Thus, it is clear that the Karl conflict fell
sometime between 1034 and 1042, and likely early in this span. This is
why Duncan and Macbeth are the favorite selections, with the latter
usually getting the nod due to his record as a military leader.

taf

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