matertera, nepos, nepote

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maria emma escobar

matertera, nepos, nepote

Legg inn av maria emma escobar » 06 okt 2005 09:21:02

In medieval Spain charts, the word "nepos-neptis" had not the same sense than "nepote". Nepos was used for a grandson, and nepote was used for a nephew or for the son of a cousin

In reference to "matertera", I have seen this name only with the sense of "maternal aunt". The other wife of the father (Stepmother?) was called "noverca": "...cum noverca mea comitissa domna Mumadonna et cum fratre meo Fredenando Gundemariz..." (Catedral de Oviedo, 1.075.)

The mentioned comitissa Mumadonna used the words "previgne mee" to call her husband´s daughter: Gontrodo Gundemariz. (Catedral de Oviedo, 1.036.)




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Peter Stewart

Re: matertera, nepos, nepote

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 06 okt 2005 12:34:34

"maria emma escobar" <memaescobar@yahoo.es> wrote in message
news:20051006071938.72592.qmail@web26301.mail.ukl.yahoo.com...

In medieval Spain charts, the word "nepos-neptis" had not the same
sense than "nepote". Nepos was used for a grandson, and nepote was
used for a nephew or for the son of a cousin

I don't follow the point - "nepos" is the masculine nominative singular,
"neptis" (or sometimes "nepta") the feminine nominative, while "nepote" is
the ablative singular in both genders. There is no separate noun "nepote",
and this form cannot have a different meaning but only represents a
different case from "nepos-neptis".

In reference to "matertera", I have seen this name only with the sense of
"maternal aunt". The other wife of the father (Stepmother?) was called
"noverca": "...cum noverca mea comitissa domna Mumadonna et cum
fratre meo Fredenando Gundemariz..." (Catedral de Oviedo, 1.075.)

I was not suggesting that "matertera" was the _common_ word for step-mother
(or mother-in-law, as I actually said) in classical Latin, just that it
could have such meaning/s due to its derivation from "mater altera". This
origin was understood in the medieval era, and may have led to inexact
usage.

The mentioned comitissa Mumadonna used the words "previgne mee"
to call her husband´s daughter: Gontrodo Gundemariz. (Catedral de Oviedo,
1.036.)

"Privignus" (step-son) and "privigna" (step-daughter) were the usual forms
in classical and medieval usage: "privigne" is simply the genitive or dative
of "privigna".

Peter Stewart

emma

Re: matertera, nepos, nepote

Legg inn av emma » 06 okt 2005 14:09:39

I know the meaning of this word in latin, but there is difference
between clasical latin and the latin used in Asturias or Navarra in XI
or XII centuries. Margarita Torres-evilla in "Linajes nobiliarios de
León y Castilla" says, in reference a the word "nepote":

" Término de uso más frecuente a partir del siglo XII. Las lenguas
occidentales de origen indoeuropeo, salvo el latín, interpretan "nepot"
como "sobrino. La lengua del imperio romano lo aplica tanto al sobrino
como al nieto. De hecho, en germano, eslavo y céltico, dicho término
alude al "hijo de la hermana". Un estudio de las inscripciones latinas
de Bretaña demuestra que siempre NEPOS designa siempre al sobrino hijo
de la hermana "
The last afirmation is from: " E. Benveniste: Vocabulario de las
instituciones indoeuropeas"

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Peter Stewart

Re: matertera, nepos, nepote

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 06 okt 2005 22:40:27

"emma" <memaescobar@yahoo.es> wrote in message
news:nm91f.6$VZ5.601@news.uswest.net...
I know the meaning of this word in latin, but there is difference
between clasical latin and the latin used in Asturias or Navarra in XI
or XII centuries. Margarita Torres-evilla in "Linajes nobiliarios de
León y Castilla" says, in reference a the word "nepote":

" Término de uso más frecuente a partir del siglo XII. Las lenguas
occidentales de origen indoeuropeo, salvo el latín, interpretan "nepot"
como "sobrino. La lengua del imperio romano lo aplica tanto al sobrino
como al nieto. De hecho, en germano, eslavo y céltico, dicho término
alude al "hijo de la hermana". Un estudio de las inscripciones latinas
de Bretaña demuestra que siempre NEPOS designa siempre al sobrino hijo
de la hermana "
The last afirmation is from: " E. Benveniste: Vocabulario de las
instituciones indoeuropeas"

It appears you have misunderstood both parts of the quotations that you have
melded into one: speaking of a generalised Indo-European "nepot" is not
meant to suggest that there was a word "nepote" in Latin somehow distinct
from "nepos" - as I said earlier, "nepote" is simply the ablative case of
"nepos" and cannot have a different meaning.

As for the claim that "nepos" always means the son of a sister in Latin
inscriptions found in Britain, I don't know how this could be determined: I
very much doubt that there are enough inscriptions using the word, and where
"nepos" is supported by other internal and/or external evidence for the
precise relationship, that such a conclusion can be meaningfully drawn.

How does the author - whose field of study is vastly more broad than the
genealogies of Roman Britain - prove that a sister's son is always meant?

Peter Stewart

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