Dear Newsgroup ~
I spent time this past week examining the avilable charters of John of
Scotland, Earl of Chester and Huntingdon (died 1237). Earl John was
the first husband of King John's grand-daughter, Ellen of Wales
(daughter of Llywelyn ap Iorwerth, Prince of North Wales). These
charters are found in the book, The Charters of the Anglo-Norman Earls
of Chester, c. 1071-1237 (1988), ed. by Geoffrey Barraclough.
Professor Barraclough refers to Earl John as "John the Scot." Yet none
of the charters he includes in his book call him this. Rather, he is
repeatedly called John of Scotland (Latin form: "Johannes de Scotia" or
"Johannes de Scocia") in all 21 of his charters, as well as in his
marriage settlement:
1. Marriage settlement dated 1222: "Iohannes de Scotia."
2. Charter dated 1232-1237: "Iohannes de Scocia."
3. Charter dated 1233-1236: "Iohannes de Scotia"
4. Charter dated 1233-1237: "Iohannes de Scotia"
5. Charter dated 1233-1237: "Iohannes de Scotia"
6. Charter dated 1233-1237: "Iohannes de Scocia"
7. Charter dated 1233-1237: "Iohannes de Scocia"
8. Charter dated 1233-1237: "Iohannes de Scocia"
9. Charter dated 1233-1237: "Iohannes de Scocia"
10. Charter dated 1233-1237: "Iohannes de Scocia"
11. Charter dated 1233-1237: "Iohannes de Scotia"
12. CHarter dated 1233-1236: "Iohannes de Scotia"
13. Charter dated 1233-1237: "Johannes de Scotia"
14. CHarter dated 1233-1237: "Iohannes de Scocia"
15. CHarter dated 1233-1237: "Iohannes de Scotia"
16. Charter dated 1233-1237: "Iohannis de Scotia"
17. Charter dated 1233-1237: "Iohannes de Scocia"
18. Charter dated 1234-1237: "Iohannes de Scocia"
19. Charter dated 1232-1237: "I. de Scocia"
20. Charter dated 1232-1237: "Iohannes de Scocia"
21. Charter dated 1234-1237: "I. de Scocia"
22. Charter dated 1232-1237: "Iohannes de Scotia"
The above information is consistent with other contemporary references
I have found to John of Scotland in other sources. I haven't found one
instance of him being styled "John the Scot" or "John le Scot" in
contemporary records. I've only find one reference to him as
"Johannes, cognomento Scotus" in Matthew Paris, which author died in
1259. Also, I find there is one late date reference to him as "John
Scot sometime earl of Cestre" in Register of the Black Prince, 4
(1933): 379, 499, which source dates from the late 1300's. If anyone
knows of any contemporary references to him as "John the Scot" or "John
le Scot," I'd certainly appreciate knowing about them.
For further particulars on John of Scotland, Earl of Chester and
Huntingdon, and his wife, Ellen of Wales, please see my books,
Plantagenet Ancestry (2004), pg. 745, and Magna Carta Ancestry (2005),
pg. 466. John of Scotland's widow, Ellen of Wales, is ancestress to
many colonial immigrants through her second marriage to Sir Robert de
Quincy, younger son of the Magna Carta baron, Saher de Quincy, 1st Earl
of Winchester.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Website: http://www.royalancestry.net
John of Scotland, Earl of Chester and Huntingdon (died 1237)
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Douglas Richardson
Re: John of Scotland, Earl of Chester and Huntingdon (died 1
Dear Newsgroup ~
As a followup to my original post, I've located a fine involving John
of Scotland (died 1237), Earl of Chester and Huntingdon, dated
1231-1232 (16 Henry III):
"Case 92. File 7.
101 Between Johannes de Scoc', earl of Huntingdon - and Elyas, abbot
of Holy Cross, Edinburgh - of the advowson of the church of Paxton,
Huntingdonshire." [Reference: G.J. Turner, Calendar of the Feet of
Fines relating to the County of Huntingdon (1913): 15].
Once again, we find the earl being called John of Scotland [Johannes de
Scoc'], not John the Scot or John le Scot.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Website: http://www.royalancestry.net
Douglas Richardson royalancestry@msn.com wrote:
As a followup to my original post, I've located a fine involving John
of Scotland (died 1237), Earl of Chester and Huntingdon, dated
1231-1232 (16 Henry III):
"Case 92. File 7.
101 Between Johannes de Scoc', earl of Huntingdon - and Elyas, abbot
of Holy Cross, Edinburgh - of the advowson of the church of Paxton,
Huntingdonshire." [Reference: G.J. Turner, Calendar of the Feet of
Fines relating to the County of Huntingdon (1913): 15].
Once again, we find the earl being called John of Scotland [Johannes de
Scoc'], not John the Scot or John le Scot.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Website: http://www.royalancestry.net
Douglas Richardson royalancestry@msn.com wrote:
Dear Newsgroup ~
I spent time this past week examining the avilable charters of John of
Scotland, Earl of Chester and Huntingdon (died 1237). Earl John was
the first husband of King John's grand-daughter, Ellen of Wales
(daughter of Llywelyn ap Iorwerth, Prince of North Wales). These
charters are found in the book, The Charters of the Anglo-Norman Earls
of Chester, c. 1071-1237 (1988), ed. by Geoffrey Barraclough.
Professor Barraclough refers to Earl John as "John the Scot." Yet none
of the charters he includes in his book call him this. Rather, he is
repeatedly called John of Scotland (Latin form: "Johannes de Scotia" or
"Johannes de Scocia") in all 21 of his charters, as well as in his
marriage settlement:
1. Marriage settlement dated 1222: "Iohannes de Scotia."
2. Charter dated 1232-1237: "Iohannes de Scocia."
3. Charter dated 1233-1236: "Iohannes de Scotia"
4. Charter dated 1233-1237: "Iohannes de Scotia"
5. Charter dated 1233-1237: "Iohannes de Scotia"
6. Charter dated 1233-1237: "Iohannes de Scocia"
7. Charter dated 1233-1237: "Iohannes de Scocia"
8. Charter dated 1233-1237: "Iohannes de Scocia"
9. Charter dated 1233-1237: "Iohannes de Scocia"
10. Charter dated 1233-1237: "Iohannes de Scocia"
11. Charter dated 1233-1237: "Iohannes de Scotia"
12. CHarter dated 1233-1236: "Iohannes de Scotia"
13. Charter dated 1233-1237: "Johannes de Scotia"
14. CHarter dated 1233-1237: "Iohannes de Scocia"
15. CHarter dated 1233-1237: "Iohannes de Scotia"
16. Charter dated 1233-1237: "Iohannis de Scotia"
17. Charter dated 1233-1237: "Iohannes de Scocia"
18. Charter dated 1234-1237: "Iohannes de Scocia"
19. Charter dated 1232-1237: "I. de Scocia"
20. Charter dated 1232-1237: "Iohannes de Scocia"
21. Charter dated 1234-1237: "I. de Scocia"
22. Charter dated 1232-1237: "Iohannes de Scotia"
The above information is consistent with other contemporary references
I have found to John of Scotland in other sources. I haven't found one
instance of him being styled "John the Scot" or "John le Scot" in
contemporary records. I've only find one reference to him as
"Johannes, cognomento Scotus" in Matthew Paris, which author died in
1259. Also, I find there is one late date reference to him as "John
Scot sometime earl of Cestre" in Register of the Black Prince, 4
(1933): 379, 499, which source dates from the late 1300's. If anyone
knows of any contemporary references to him as "John the Scot" or "John
le Scot," I'd certainly appreciate knowing about them.
For further particulars on John of Scotland, Earl of Chester and
Huntingdon, and his wife, Ellen of Wales, please see my books,
Plantagenet Ancestry (2004), pg. 745, and Magna Carta Ancestry (2005),
pg. 466. John of Scotland's widow, Ellen of Wales, is ancestress to
many colonial immigrants through her second marriage to Sir Robert de
Quincy, younger son of the Magna Carta baron, Saher de Quincy, 1st Earl
of Winchester.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Website: http://www.royalancestry.net