Diana's ancestors fallen at Flodden Field
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
James Dow Allen
Diana's ancestors fallen at Flodden Field
Most of us can't name 50 certain ancestors from the
15th century, but Diana Spencer Princess of Wales
had 51 ancestors who all died at the Battle of
Flodden Field.
(Some of these men were also ancestral to Diana's
husband the Prince of Wales, but I could find only
two Flodden Field fatalities ancestral to Charles
but not Diana. These are John Erskine (below) and
Thomas Maule 4th of Panmure.)
Corrections and additions welcome.
James D. Allen
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
It would be redundant to show death dates to
identify the men in the following list more clearly:
all 51 of them died on the 9th of September, 1513.
Michael Balfour of Monquhanny
Archibald Campbell, 2nd Earl of Argyll (*)
Duncan Campbell, 2nd Laird of Glenorchy (*)
Robert Colville of Hiltoun & Ochiltree
Robert Crichton, 2nd Lord of Sanquhar
William Douglas of Glenbervie
Robert Douglas of Lochleven
William Douglas, 6th Laird of Drumlanrig
George Douglas, Master of Angus (*)
Alexander Dundas of Fingask
Alexander Elphinstone, Baron Elphinstone
Robert Erskine, 4th Lord of Marr
John Erskine, 4th of Dun (**)
William Gordon of Schivas, 1st of Gight (*)
John Gordon, 2nd of Auchleuchries
Alexander Gordon, younger of Lochinvar (??)
William Graham, 1st Earl of Montrose (*)
Guiscard Harbottle
Gilbert Hay of Delgaty & Ardendraught
Thomas Hay of Logie
John Hay, 2nd Lord Hay of Yester (*)
William Hay, 4th Earl of Erroll (*?)
James Henderson
Andrew Herries, 2nd Lord Herries of Terregles (*?)
Cuthbert Home of Fastcastle
David Home of Wedderburn (*)
David Kennedy, 1st Earl of Cassillis
William Leslie, 3rd Earl of Rothes
Walter Lindsay (II)
Robert Livingston of Drumry & Easter Wemyss
Thomas MacDowall
William Maitland of Thirlestane & Lethington
John Maxwell, Lord Maxwell of Carlaverock
John Murray of Blackbarony
William Murray of Castleton (*)
Colin Oliphant, Master of Oliphant
Robert Rollock/Rollo of Duncrub (*)
John Ross, 2nd Lord Ross of Halkhead
William Ruthven, Master of Ruthven (*)
John Sempill, 1st Lord Semple
Alexander Seton, 2nd of Touch
George Seton, 3rd Lord Seton
Henry Sinclair, 3rd Lord Sinclair
John Somerville of Cambusnethan
Thomas Steuart, 2nd Lord Innermeath (??)
James Stewart, 1st of Traquhair
Matthew Stewart, 2nd Earl of Lennox (*)
Andrew Stewart, 2nd Lord Avondale
Alexander Stewart, 4th Lord of Garlies
James Stuart (IV), 40th King of Scots (*)
David Wemyss of Wemyss
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Notes:
(*) - also ancestral to Charles Prince of Wales.
(**) - his son John Erskine also died at Flodden
Field and was ancestral to Charles Prince of Wales.
(??) - Two ancestries may be uncertain: Was Mary
Ogilvie the grandmother of George 1st Duke of Gordon?
Was Thomas Steuart the grandfather of John Cochrane
of Cochrane (d. 1557)?
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The above are shown, along with links to their pedigrees, at
http://tinyurl.com/yw4j6/pedix/peix47.htm#floddenx
15th century, but Diana Spencer Princess of Wales
had 51 ancestors who all died at the Battle of
Flodden Field.
(Some of these men were also ancestral to Diana's
husband the Prince of Wales, but I could find only
two Flodden Field fatalities ancestral to Charles
but not Diana. These are John Erskine (below) and
Thomas Maule 4th of Panmure.)
Corrections and additions welcome.
James D. Allen
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
It would be redundant to show death dates to
identify the men in the following list more clearly:
all 51 of them died on the 9th of September, 1513.
Michael Balfour of Monquhanny
Archibald Campbell, 2nd Earl of Argyll (*)
Duncan Campbell, 2nd Laird of Glenorchy (*)
Robert Colville of Hiltoun & Ochiltree
Robert Crichton, 2nd Lord of Sanquhar
William Douglas of Glenbervie
Robert Douglas of Lochleven
William Douglas, 6th Laird of Drumlanrig
George Douglas, Master of Angus (*)
Alexander Dundas of Fingask
Alexander Elphinstone, Baron Elphinstone
Robert Erskine, 4th Lord of Marr
John Erskine, 4th of Dun (**)
William Gordon of Schivas, 1st of Gight (*)
John Gordon, 2nd of Auchleuchries
Alexander Gordon, younger of Lochinvar (??)
William Graham, 1st Earl of Montrose (*)
Guiscard Harbottle
Gilbert Hay of Delgaty & Ardendraught
Thomas Hay of Logie
John Hay, 2nd Lord Hay of Yester (*)
William Hay, 4th Earl of Erroll (*?)
James Henderson
Andrew Herries, 2nd Lord Herries of Terregles (*?)
Cuthbert Home of Fastcastle
David Home of Wedderburn (*)
David Kennedy, 1st Earl of Cassillis
William Leslie, 3rd Earl of Rothes
Walter Lindsay (II)
Robert Livingston of Drumry & Easter Wemyss
Thomas MacDowall
William Maitland of Thirlestane & Lethington
John Maxwell, Lord Maxwell of Carlaverock
John Murray of Blackbarony
William Murray of Castleton (*)
Colin Oliphant, Master of Oliphant
Robert Rollock/Rollo of Duncrub (*)
John Ross, 2nd Lord Ross of Halkhead
William Ruthven, Master of Ruthven (*)
John Sempill, 1st Lord Semple
Alexander Seton, 2nd of Touch
George Seton, 3rd Lord Seton
Henry Sinclair, 3rd Lord Sinclair
John Somerville of Cambusnethan
Thomas Steuart, 2nd Lord Innermeath (??)
James Stewart, 1st of Traquhair
Matthew Stewart, 2nd Earl of Lennox (*)
Andrew Stewart, 2nd Lord Avondale
Alexander Stewart, 4th Lord of Garlies
James Stuart (IV), 40th King of Scots (*)
David Wemyss of Wemyss
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Notes:
(*) - also ancestral to Charles Prince of Wales.
(**) - his son John Erskine also died at Flodden
Field and was ancestral to Charles Prince of Wales.
(??) - Two ancestries may be uncertain: Was Mary
Ogilvie the grandmother of George 1st Duke of Gordon?
Was Thomas Steuart the grandfather of John Cochrane
of Cochrane (d. 1557)?
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The above are shown, along with links to their pedigrees, at
http://tinyurl.com/yw4j6/pedix/peix47.htm#floddenx
-
John Higgins
Re: Diana's ancestors fallen at Flodden Field
I can add some more names to this list of Flodden fatalities ancestral to
either Charles or Diana. Interestingly, a few of these are English rather
than Scottish.
Ancestors of Prince Charles:
John Carnegie, 4th of Kinnaird
Robert Fouleshurst of Crewe [d. 9.IX.1513, possibly at Flodden]
Robert Maxtone, 3rd of Cultoquhey
Sir John Ramsay of Balmain, Lord Bothwell
Sir Brian Tunstall
Ancestors of Diana Spencer:
John Dunbar of Mochrum
Sir John Haldane, 5th of Gleneagles
Sir Adam Hepburn of Craigs
William Johnston of that Ilk and of Caskieben
John Keith of Craig
Allan Lockhart, 2nd of Cleghorn
Thomas Lumsden
David Lyon of Braky
Thomas Maisterson
Cuthbert Montgomerie, 3rd of Skelmorlie
John Mure of Rowallan
Sir Alexander Napier, 5th of Murchiston
Thomas Otterburne, burgess of Edinburgh
Sir John Rattray of that Ilk
Thomas Venables of Golburne and Kinderton
an unnamed son of Patrick Barclay of Gartley [may have d. at Flodden]
There may be some weak links in the descents from these folks to Chuck or
Di, but in almost all cases they should be OK. Some of the above may be
ancestral to both C and D.
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Dow Allen" <jdallen2000@yahoo.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2005 1:42 AM
Subject: Diana's ancestors fallen at Flodden Field
either Charles or Diana. Interestingly, a few of these are English rather
than Scottish.
Ancestors of Prince Charles:
John Carnegie, 4th of Kinnaird
Robert Fouleshurst of Crewe [d. 9.IX.1513, possibly at Flodden]
Robert Maxtone, 3rd of Cultoquhey
Sir John Ramsay of Balmain, Lord Bothwell
Sir Brian Tunstall
Ancestors of Diana Spencer:
John Dunbar of Mochrum
Sir John Haldane, 5th of Gleneagles
Sir Adam Hepburn of Craigs
William Johnston of that Ilk and of Caskieben
John Keith of Craig
Allan Lockhart, 2nd of Cleghorn
Thomas Lumsden
David Lyon of Braky
Thomas Maisterson
Cuthbert Montgomerie, 3rd of Skelmorlie
John Mure of Rowallan
Sir Alexander Napier, 5th of Murchiston
Thomas Otterburne, burgess of Edinburgh
Sir John Rattray of that Ilk
Thomas Venables of Golburne and Kinderton
an unnamed son of Patrick Barclay of Gartley [may have d. at Flodden]
There may be some weak links in the descents from these folks to Chuck or
Di, but in almost all cases they should be OK. Some of the above may be
ancestral to both C and D.
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Dow Allen" <jdallen2000@yahoo.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2005 1:42 AM
Subject: Diana's ancestors fallen at Flodden Field
Most of us can't name 50 certain ancestors from the
15th century, but Diana Spencer Princess of Wales
had 51 ancestors who all died at the Battle of
Flodden Field.
(Some of these men were also ancestral to Diana's
husband the Prince of Wales, but I could find only
two Flodden Field fatalities ancestral to Charles
but not Diana. These are John Erskine (below) and
Thomas Maule 4th of Panmure.)
Corrections and additions welcome.
James D. Allen
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
It would be redundant to show death dates to
identify the men in the following list more clearly:
all 51 of them died on the 9th of September, 1513.
Michael Balfour of Monquhanny
Archibald Campbell, 2nd Earl of Argyll (*)
Duncan Campbell, 2nd Laird of Glenorchy (*)
Robert Colville of Hiltoun & Ochiltree
Robert Crichton, 2nd Lord of Sanquhar
William Douglas of Glenbervie
Robert Douglas of Lochleven
William Douglas, 6th Laird of Drumlanrig
George Douglas, Master of Angus (*)
Alexander Dundas of Fingask
Alexander Elphinstone, Baron Elphinstone
Robert Erskine, 4th Lord of Marr
John Erskine, 4th of Dun (**)
William Gordon of Schivas, 1st of Gight (*)
John Gordon, 2nd of Auchleuchries
Alexander Gordon, younger of Lochinvar (??)
William Graham, 1st Earl of Montrose (*)
Guiscard Harbottle
Gilbert Hay of Delgaty & Ardendraught
Thomas Hay of Logie
John Hay, 2nd Lord Hay of Yester (*)
William Hay, 4th Earl of Erroll (*?)
James Henderson
Andrew Herries, 2nd Lord Herries of Terregles (*?)
Cuthbert Home of Fastcastle
David Home of Wedderburn (*)
David Kennedy, 1st Earl of Cassillis
William Leslie, 3rd Earl of Rothes
Walter Lindsay (II)
Robert Livingston of Drumry & Easter Wemyss
Thomas MacDowall
William Maitland of Thirlestane & Lethington
John Maxwell, Lord Maxwell of Carlaverock
John Murray of Blackbarony
William Murray of Castleton (*)
Colin Oliphant, Master of Oliphant
Robert Rollock/Rollo of Duncrub (*)
John Ross, 2nd Lord Ross of Halkhead
William Ruthven, Master of Ruthven (*)
John Sempill, 1st Lord Semple
Alexander Seton, 2nd of Touch
George Seton, 3rd Lord Seton
Henry Sinclair, 3rd Lord Sinclair
John Somerville of Cambusnethan
Thomas Steuart, 2nd Lord Innermeath (??)
James Stewart, 1st of Traquhair
Matthew Stewart, 2nd Earl of Lennox (*)
Andrew Stewart, 2nd Lord Avondale
Alexander Stewart, 4th Lord of Garlies
James Stuart (IV), 40th King of Scots (*)
David Wemyss of Wemyss
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Notes:
(*) - also ancestral to Charles Prince of Wales.
(**) - his son John Erskine also died at Flodden
Field and was ancestral to Charles Prince of Wales.
(??) - Two ancestries may be uncertain: Was Mary
Ogilvie the grandmother of George 1st Duke of Gordon?
Was Thomas Steuart the grandfather of John Cochrane
of Cochrane (d. 1557)?
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The above are shown, along with links to their pedigrees, at
http://tinyurl.com/yw4j6/pedix/peix47.htm#floddenx
-
John P. Ravilious
Re: Diana's ancestors fallen at Flodden Field
Dear John [Higgins], Leo, et al.,
I see on your list John Mure of Rowallan. Having a bit of
information on this particular ancestor of mine, I'd trolled
Genealogics earlier but did not note a descent to Diana.
Would you mind posting even a brief lineage for the descent you
show? Many thanks.
Cheers,
John [Ravilious]
"John Higgins" wrote:
I see on your list John Mure of Rowallan. Having a bit of
information on this particular ancestor of mine, I'd trolled
Genealogics earlier but did not note a descent to Diana.
Would you mind posting even a brief lineage for the descent you
show? Many thanks.
Cheers,
John [Ravilious]
"John Higgins" wrote:
I can add some more names to this list of Flodden fatalities ancestral to
either Charles or Diana. Interestingly, a few of these are English rather
than Scottish.
Ancestors of Prince Charles:
John Carnegie, 4th of Kinnaird
Robert Fouleshurst of Crewe [d. 9.IX.1513, possibly at Flodden]
Robert Maxtone, 3rd of Cultoquhey
Sir John Ramsay of Balmain, Lord Bothwell
Sir Brian Tunstall
Ancestors of Diana Spencer:
John Dunbar of Mochrum
Sir John Haldane, 5th of Gleneagles
Sir Adam Hepburn of Craigs
William Johnston of that Ilk and of Caskieben
John Keith of Craig
Allan Lockhart, 2nd of Cleghorn
Thomas Lumsden
David Lyon of Braky
Thomas Maisterson
Cuthbert Montgomerie, 3rd of Skelmorlie
John Mure of Rowallan
Sir Alexander Napier, 5th of Murchiston
Thomas Otterburne, burgess of Edinburgh
Sir John Rattray of that Ilk
Thomas Venables of Golburne and Kinderton
an unnamed son of Patrick Barclay of Gartley [may have d. at Flodden]
There may be some weak links in the descents from these folks to Chuck or
Di, but in almost all cases they should be OK. Some of the above may be
ancestral to both C and D.
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Dow Allen" <jdallen2000@yahoo.com
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2005 1:42 AM
Subject: Diana's ancestors fallen at Flodden Field
Most of us can't name 50 certain ancestors from the
15th century, but Diana Spencer Princess of Wales
had 51 ancestors who all died at the Battle of
Flodden Field.
(Some of these men were also ancestral to Diana's
husband the Prince of Wales, but I could find only
two Flodden Field fatalities ancestral to Charles
but not Diana. These are John Erskine (below) and
Thomas Maule 4th of Panmure.)
Corrections and additions welcome.
James D. Allen
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
It would be redundant to show death dates to
identify the men in the following list more clearly:
all 51 of them died on the 9th of September, 1513.
Michael Balfour of Monquhanny
Archibald Campbell, 2nd Earl of Argyll (*)
Duncan Campbell, 2nd Laird of Glenorchy (*)
Robert Colville of Hiltoun & Ochiltree
Robert Crichton, 2nd Lord of Sanquhar
William Douglas of Glenbervie
Robert Douglas of Lochleven
William Douglas, 6th Laird of Drumlanrig
George Douglas, Master of Angus (*)
Alexander Dundas of Fingask
Alexander Elphinstone, Baron Elphinstone
Robert Erskine, 4th Lord of Marr
John Erskine, 4th of Dun (**)
William Gordon of Schivas, 1st of Gight (*)
John Gordon, 2nd of Auchleuchries
Alexander Gordon, younger of Lochinvar (??)
William Graham, 1st Earl of Montrose (*)
Guiscard Harbottle
Gilbert Hay of Delgaty & Ardendraught
Thomas Hay of Logie
John Hay, 2nd Lord Hay of Yester (*)
William Hay, 4th Earl of Erroll (*?)
James Henderson
Andrew Herries, 2nd Lord Herries of Terregles (*?)
Cuthbert Home of Fastcastle
David Home of Wedderburn (*)
David Kennedy, 1st Earl of Cassillis
William Leslie, 3rd Earl of Rothes
Walter Lindsay (II)
Robert Livingston of Drumry & Easter Wemyss
Thomas MacDowall
William Maitland of Thirlestane & Lethington
John Maxwell, Lord Maxwell of Carlaverock
John Murray of Blackbarony
William Murray of Castleton (*)
Colin Oliphant, Master of Oliphant
Robert Rollock/Rollo of Duncrub (*)
John Ross, 2nd Lord Ross of Halkhead
William Ruthven, Master of Ruthven (*)
John Sempill, 1st Lord Semple
Alexander Seton, 2nd of Touch
George Seton, 3rd Lord Seton
Henry Sinclair, 3rd Lord Sinclair
John Somerville of Cambusnethan
Thomas Steuart, 2nd Lord Innermeath (??)
James Stewart, 1st of Traquhair
Matthew Stewart, 2nd Earl of Lennox (*)
Andrew Stewart, 2nd Lord Avondale
Alexander Stewart, 4th Lord of Garlies
James Stuart (IV), 40th King of Scots (*)
David Wemyss of Wemyss
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Notes:
(*) - also ancestral to Charles Prince of Wales.
(**) - his son John Erskine also died at Flodden
Field and was ancestral to Charles Prince of Wales.
(??) - Two ancestries may be uncertain: Was Mary
Ogilvie the grandmother of George 1st Duke of Gordon?
Was Thomas Steuart the grandfather of John Cochrane
of Cochrane (d. 1557)?
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The above are shown, along with links to their pedigrees, at
http://tinyurl.com/yw4j6/pedix/peix47.htm#floddenx
-
Leo van de Pas
Re: Diana's ancestors fallen at Flodden Field
Dear James,
This is a very interesting list. A while back Ian Fettes, John Higgins and
myself were working on a similar list. For this I want to stick to ancestors
of Lady Diana Spencer only.
First several queries about people on your list.
1.Michael Balfour of Monquhanny I have him die in 1508
2.Robert Crichton, 2nd Lord of Sanquhar, I have him die between 13 July 1513
and 6 November 1513, to me this implies he did not die at Flodden (or did he
die of wounds?)
3.You have Robert Erskine, 4th Lord of Marr and John Erskine, the of Dun, I
have Robert Erskine, 4th of Dun who was killed at Flodden, but no John
Erskine as ancestor of Lady Diana who was killed at Flodden.
4. Guiscard Harbottle, I have him die 2 September 1518 (1516?)
5. James Henderson-----is he an ancestor of Lady Diana?
6.Thomas Steuart, 2nd Lord Innermeath, you question him yourself, I do not
have him as an ancestor.
That was the bad news
I have several additions but will not mention
those already mentioned by John Higgins, and so the following maybe new to
John Higgins (somehow I doubt this)
1.Sir John Moncreiffe of That Ilk
2.Robert Maxtone, 3rd of Cultoquhey, John has him as an ancestor of Prince
Charles, I have him also for Lady Diana
3.Uchthred Macdowall, 7th of Garthland
4.John Carnegie, of Kinnaird
5.John Campbell of Lawers and Auchreoch
Hope this helps?
Best wishes
Leo van de Pas
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Dow Allen" <jdallen2000@yahoo.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2005 6:42 PM
Subject: Diana's ancestors fallen at Flodden Field
This is a very interesting list. A while back Ian Fettes, John Higgins and
myself were working on a similar list. For this I want to stick to ancestors
of Lady Diana Spencer only.
First several queries about people on your list.
1.Michael Balfour of Monquhanny I have him die in 1508
2.Robert Crichton, 2nd Lord of Sanquhar, I have him die between 13 July 1513
and 6 November 1513, to me this implies he did not die at Flodden (or did he
die of wounds?)
3.You have Robert Erskine, 4th Lord of Marr and John Erskine, the of Dun, I
have Robert Erskine, 4th of Dun who was killed at Flodden, but no John
Erskine as ancestor of Lady Diana who was killed at Flodden.
4. Guiscard Harbottle, I have him die 2 September 1518 (1516?)
5. James Henderson-----is he an ancestor of Lady Diana?
6.Thomas Steuart, 2nd Lord Innermeath, you question him yourself, I do not
have him as an ancestor.
That was the bad news
those already mentioned by John Higgins, and so the following maybe new to
John Higgins (somehow I doubt this)
1.Sir John Moncreiffe of That Ilk
2.Robert Maxtone, 3rd of Cultoquhey, John has him as an ancestor of Prince
Charles, I have him also for Lady Diana
3.Uchthred Macdowall, 7th of Garthland
4.John Carnegie, of Kinnaird
5.John Campbell of Lawers and Auchreoch
Hope this helps?
Best wishes
Leo van de Pas
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Dow Allen" <jdallen2000@yahoo.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2005 6:42 PM
Subject: Diana's ancestors fallen at Flodden Field
Most of us can't name 50 certain ancestors from the
15th century, but Diana Spencer Princess of Wales
had 51 ancestors who all died at the Battle of
Flodden Field.
(Some of these men were also ancestral to Diana's
husband the Prince of Wales, but I could find only
two Flodden Field fatalities ancestral to Charles
but not Diana. These are John Erskine (below) and
Thomas Maule 4th of Panmure.)
Corrections and additions welcome.
James D. Allen
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
It would be redundant to show death dates to
identify the men in the following list more clearly:
all 51 of them died on the 9th of September, 1513.
Michael Balfour of Monquhanny
Archibald Campbell, 2nd Earl of Argyll (*)
Duncan Campbell, 2nd Laird of Glenorchy (*)
Robert Colville of Hiltoun & Ochiltree
Robert Crichton, 2nd Lord of Sanquhar
William Douglas of Glenbervie
Robert Douglas of Lochleven
William Douglas, 6th Laird of Drumlanrig
George Douglas, Master of Angus (*)
Alexander Dundas of Fingask
Alexander Elphinstone, Baron Elphinstone
Robert Erskine, 4th Lord of Marr
John Erskine, 4th of Dun (**)
William Gordon of Schivas, 1st of Gight (*)
John Gordon, 2nd of Auchleuchries
Alexander Gordon, younger of Lochinvar (??)
William Graham, 1st Earl of Montrose (*)
Guiscard Harbottle
Gilbert Hay of Delgaty & Ardendraught
Thomas Hay of Logie
John Hay, 2nd Lord Hay of Yester (*)
William Hay, 4th Earl of Erroll (*?)
James Henderson
Andrew Herries, 2nd Lord Herries of Terregles (*?)
Cuthbert Home of Fastcastle
David Home of Wedderburn (*)
David Kennedy, 1st Earl of Cassillis
William Leslie, 3rd Earl of Rothes
Walter Lindsay (II)
Robert Livingston of Drumry & Easter Wemyss
Thomas MacDowall
William Maitland of Thirlestane & Lethington
John Maxwell, Lord Maxwell of Carlaverock
John Murray of Blackbarony
William Murray of Castleton (*)
Colin Oliphant, Master of Oliphant
Robert Rollock/Rollo of Duncrub (*)
John Ross, 2nd Lord Ross of Halkhead
William Ruthven, Master of Ruthven (*)
John Sempill, 1st Lord Semple
Alexander Seton, 2nd of Touch
George Seton, 3rd Lord Seton
Henry Sinclair, 3rd Lord Sinclair
John Somerville of Cambusnethan
Thomas Steuart, 2nd Lord Innermeath (??)
James Stewart, 1st of Traquhair
Matthew Stewart, 2nd Earl of Lennox (*)
Andrew Stewart, 2nd Lord Avondale
Alexander Stewart, 4th Lord of Garlies
James Stuart (IV), 40th King of Scots (*)
David Wemyss of Wemyss
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Notes:
(*) - also ancestral to Charles Prince of Wales.
(**) - his son John Erskine also died at Flodden
Field and was ancestral to Charles Prince of Wales.
(??) - Two ancestries may be uncertain: Was Mary
Ogilvie the grandmother of George 1st Duke of Gordon?
Was Thomas Steuart the grandfather of John Cochrane
of Cochrane (d. 1557)?
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The above are shown, along with links to their pedigrees, at
http://tinyurl.com/yw4j6/pedix/peix47.htm#floddenx
-
Leo van de Pas
Re: Diana's ancestors fallen at Flodden Field
John Mure, of Rowallan
/
Sir Mungo Mure
/
Elizabeth Mure
/
Euphemia Dunbar
/
Katherine MacDowall
/
John Kennedy, 6th Earl of Cassilis
/
Lady Catherine Kennedy
/
Margaret Cochrane
/
Lady Jean Seton Montgomerie
/
Sir William Maxwell, 3rd Baronet
/
Jane Maxwell
/
Lady Georgiana Gordon
/
Lady Louisa Jane Russell
/
James Hamilton, 2nd Duke of Abercorn
/
James Albert Edward Hamilton, 3rd Duke of Abercorn
/
Lady Cynthia Hamilton
/
Edward John Spencer, 8th Earl Spencer
/
Lady Diana Spencer
Hope this is ok?
Leo
----- Original Message -----
From: "John P. Ravilious" <therav3@aol.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 9:05 AM
Subject: Re: Diana's ancestors fallen at Flodden Field
/
Sir Mungo Mure
/
Elizabeth Mure
/
Euphemia Dunbar
/
Katherine MacDowall
/
John Kennedy, 6th Earl of Cassilis
/
Lady Catherine Kennedy
/
Margaret Cochrane
/
Lady Jean Seton Montgomerie
/
Sir William Maxwell, 3rd Baronet
/
Jane Maxwell
/
Lady Georgiana Gordon
/
Lady Louisa Jane Russell
/
James Hamilton, 2nd Duke of Abercorn
/
James Albert Edward Hamilton, 3rd Duke of Abercorn
/
Lady Cynthia Hamilton
/
Edward John Spencer, 8th Earl Spencer
/
Lady Diana Spencer
Hope this is ok?
Leo
----- Original Message -----
From: "John P. Ravilious" <therav3@aol.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 9:05 AM
Subject: Re: Diana's ancestors fallen at Flodden Field
Dear John [Higgins], Leo, et al.,
I see on your list John Mure of Rowallan. Having a bit of
information on this particular ancestor of mine, I'd trolled
Genealogics earlier but did not note a descent to Diana.
Would you mind posting even a brief lineage for the descent you
show? Many thanks.
Cheers,
John [Ravilious]
"John Higgins" wrote:
I can add some more names to this list of Flodden fatalities ancestral to
either Charles or Diana. Interestingly, a few of these are English
rather
than Scottish.
Ancestors of Prince Charles:
John Carnegie, 4th of Kinnaird
Robert Fouleshurst of Crewe [d. 9.IX.1513, possibly at Flodden]
Robert Maxtone, 3rd of Cultoquhey
Sir John Ramsay of Balmain, Lord Bothwell
Sir Brian Tunstall
Ancestors of Diana Spencer:
John Dunbar of Mochrum
Sir John Haldane, 5th of Gleneagles
Sir Adam Hepburn of Craigs
William Johnston of that Ilk and of Caskieben
John Keith of Craig
Allan Lockhart, 2nd of Cleghorn
Thomas Lumsden
David Lyon of Braky
Thomas Maisterson
Cuthbert Montgomerie, 3rd of Skelmorlie
John Mure of Rowallan
Sir Alexander Napier, 5th of Murchiston
Thomas Otterburne, burgess of Edinburgh
Sir John Rattray of that Ilk
Thomas Venables of Golburne and Kinderton
an unnamed son of Patrick Barclay of Gartley [may have d. at Flodden]
There may be some weak links in the descents from these folks to Chuck or
Di, but in almost all cases they should be OK. Some of the above may be
ancestral to both C and D.
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Dow Allen" <jdallen2000@yahoo.com
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2005 1:42 AM
Subject: Diana's ancestors fallen at Flodden Field
Most of us can't name 50 certain ancestors from the
15th century, but Diana Spencer Princess of Wales
had 51 ancestors who all died at the Battle of
Flodden Field.
(Some of these men were also ancestral to Diana's
husband the Prince of Wales, but I could find only
two Flodden Field fatalities ancestral to Charles
but not Diana. These are John Erskine (below) and
Thomas Maule 4th of Panmure.)
Corrections and additions welcome.
James D. Allen
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
It would be redundant to show death dates to
identify the men in the following list more clearly:
all 51 of them died on the 9th of September, 1513.
Michael Balfour of Monquhanny
Archibald Campbell, 2nd Earl of Argyll (*)
Duncan Campbell, 2nd Laird of Glenorchy (*)
Robert Colville of Hiltoun & Ochiltree
Robert Crichton, 2nd Lord of Sanquhar
William Douglas of Glenbervie
Robert Douglas of Lochleven
William Douglas, 6th Laird of Drumlanrig
George Douglas, Master of Angus (*)
Alexander Dundas of Fingask
Alexander Elphinstone, Baron Elphinstone
Robert Erskine, 4th Lord of Marr
John Erskine, 4th of Dun (**)
William Gordon of Schivas, 1st of Gight (*)
John Gordon, 2nd of Auchleuchries
Alexander Gordon, younger of Lochinvar (??)
William Graham, 1st Earl of Montrose (*)
Guiscard Harbottle
Gilbert Hay of Delgaty & Ardendraught
Thomas Hay of Logie
John Hay, 2nd Lord Hay of Yester (*)
William Hay, 4th Earl of Erroll (*?)
James Henderson
Andrew Herries, 2nd Lord Herries of Terregles (*?)
Cuthbert Home of Fastcastle
David Home of Wedderburn (*)
David Kennedy, 1st Earl of Cassillis
William Leslie, 3rd Earl of Rothes
Walter Lindsay (II)
Robert Livingston of Drumry & Easter Wemyss
Thomas MacDowall
William Maitland of Thirlestane & Lethington
John Maxwell, Lord Maxwell of Carlaverock
John Murray of Blackbarony
William Murray of Castleton (*)
Colin Oliphant, Master of Oliphant
Robert Rollock/Rollo of Duncrub (*)
John Ross, 2nd Lord Ross of Halkhead
William Ruthven, Master of Ruthven (*)
John Sempill, 1st Lord Semple
Alexander Seton, 2nd of Touch
George Seton, 3rd Lord Seton
Henry Sinclair, 3rd Lord Sinclair
John Somerville of Cambusnethan
Thomas Steuart, 2nd Lord Innermeath (??)
James Stewart, 1st of Traquhair
Matthew Stewart, 2nd Earl of Lennox (*)
Andrew Stewart, 2nd Lord Avondale
Alexander Stewart, 4th Lord of Garlies
James Stuart (IV), 40th King of Scots (*)
David Wemyss of Wemyss
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Notes:
(*) - also ancestral to Charles Prince of Wales.
(**) - his son John Erskine also died at Flodden
Field and was ancestral to Charles Prince of Wales.
(??) - Two ancestries may be uncertain: Was Mary
Ogilvie the grandmother of George 1st Duke of Gordon?
Was Thomas Steuart the grandfather of John Cochrane
of Cochrane (d. 1557)?
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The above are shown, along with links to their pedigrees, at
http://tinyurl.com/yw4j6/pedix/peix47.htm#floddenx
-
John Higgins
Re: Diana's ancestors fallen at Flodden Field
See notes on specific entries below....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leo van de Pas" <leovdpas@netspeed.com.au>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2005 3:37 PM
Subject: Re: Diana's ancestors fallen at Flodden Field
from the previous entry in Paget, Elizabeth Sinclair of Orkney. Information
on various websites including e.g. Stirnet says Michael Balfour died at
Flodden.
"doubtless was slain at Flodden".
an ancestor of Charles but not of Diana - I agrere with that.
Harbottle - probably based on Paget who of course provided no sources. But
an extensive Harbottle pedigree in the History of Northumberland explicitly
says that he died at Flodden.
note for details.
If valid, it goes through the the family of Barclay of Collairnie to the
wife of Sir James Sibbald, 1st Baronet. See Stirnet for an outline of the
descent with sources. One of the weak links is the dau. of this Thomas
Stewart of Innermeath.
of the John Moncreiffe who d. at Flodden. But BP (as well as other source)
says she was his sister, not his daughter.
ancestor, so I placed him there.
it - possibly due to timeout problems with the relationship calculator. And
now I can't get your database to respond at all!! Can you help?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leo van de Pas" <leovdpas@netspeed.com.au>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2005 3:37 PM
Subject: Re: Diana's ancestors fallen at Flodden Field
Dear James,
This is a very interesting list. A while back Ian Fettes, John Higgins and
myself were working on a similar list. For this I want to stick to
ancestors
of Lady Diana Spencer only.
First several queries about people on your list.
1.Michael Balfour of Monquhanny I have him die in 1508
Paget gives no death date for him - I suspect you picked up the 1508 date
from the previous entry in Paget, Elizabeth Sinclair of Orkney. Information
on various websites including e.g. Stirnet says Michael Balfour died at
Flodden.
2.Robert Crichton, 2nd Lord of Sanquhar, I have him die between 13 July
1513
and 6 November 1513, to me this implies he did not die at Flodden (or did
he
die of wounds?)
See CP 3:540 which gives the same date range for his death and says he
"doubtless was slain at Flodden".
3.You have Robert Erskine, 4th Lord of Marr and John Erskine, the of Dun,
I
have Robert Erskine, 4th of Dun who was killed at Flodden, but no John
Erskine as ancestor of Lady Diana who was killed at Flodden.
James Dow Allen's original note says that John Erskine the Younger of Dun is
an ancestor of Charles but not of Diana - I agrere with that.
4. Guiscard Harbottle, I have him die 2 September 1518 (1516?)
Like you, I had originally thought that 1518 was the death date for Guiscard
Harbottle - probably based on Paget who of course provided no sources. But
an extensive Harbottle pedigree in the History of Northumberland explicitly
says that he died at Flodden.
5. James Henderson-----is he an ancestor of Lady Diana?
Yes - via the family of Foulis of Colinton. See the website in the original
note for details.
6.Thomas Steuart, 2nd Lord Innermeath, you question him yourself, I do not
have him as an ancestor.
This is one of those descents that is possible but not sufficiently proven.
If valid, it goes through the the family of Barclay of Collairnie to the
wife of Sir James Sibbald, 1st Baronet. See Stirnet for an outline of the
descent with sources. One of the weak links is the dau. of this Thomas
Stewart of Innermeath.
That was the bad newsI have several additions but will not mention
those already mentioned by John Higgins, and so the following maybe new to
John Higgins (somehow I doubt this)
1.Sir John Moncreiffe of That Ilk
You show Margaret Moncreiffe who mar. Duncan Campbell of Glenorchy as dau.
of the John Moncreiffe who d. at Flodden. But BP (as well as other source)
says she was his sister, not his daughter.
2.Robert Maxtone, 3rd of Cultoquhey, John has him as an ancestor of Prince
Charles, I have him also for Lady Diana
Probably correct - but he shows up first in an ahnentafel as a Charles
ancestor, so I placed him there.
3.Uchthred Macdowall, 7th of Garthland
I agree - - I went back only 19 generations and he is in generation 20.
4.John Carnegie, of Kinnaird
He is on my list as a Charles ancestor - may well be a Diana ancestor also.
5.John Campbell of Lawers and Auchreoch
I tried to find this connection to Diana in your database but couldn't find
it - possibly due to timeout problems with the relationship calculator. And
now I can't get your database to respond at all!! Can you help?
Hope this helps?
Best wishes
Leo van de Pas
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Dow Allen" <jdallen2000@yahoo.com
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2005 6:42 PM
Subject: Diana's ancestors fallen at Flodden Field
Most of us can't name 50 certain ancestors from the
15th century, but Diana Spencer Princess of Wales
had 51 ancestors who all died at the Battle of
Flodden Field.
(Some of these men were also ancestral to Diana's
husband the Prince of Wales, but I could find only
two Flodden Field fatalities ancestral to Charles
but not Diana. These are John Erskine (below) and
Thomas Maule 4th of Panmure.)
Corrections and additions welcome.
James D. Allen
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
It would be redundant to show death dates to
identify the men in the following list more clearly:
all 51 of them died on the 9th of September, 1513.
Michael Balfour of Monquhanny
Archibald Campbell, 2nd Earl of Argyll (*)
Duncan Campbell, 2nd Laird of Glenorchy (*)
Robert Colville of Hiltoun & Ochiltree
Robert Crichton, 2nd Lord of Sanquhar
William Douglas of Glenbervie
Robert Douglas of Lochleven
William Douglas, 6th Laird of Drumlanrig
George Douglas, Master of Angus (*)
Alexander Dundas of Fingask
Alexander Elphinstone, Baron Elphinstone
Robert Erskine, 4th Lord of Marr
John Erskine, 4th of Dun (**)
William Gordon of Schivas, 1st of Gight (*)
John Gordon, 2nd of Auchleuchries
Alexander Gordon, younger of Lochinvar (??)
William Graham, 1st Earl of Montrose (*)
Guiscard Harbottle
Gilbert Hay of Delgaty & Ardendraught
Thomas Hay of Logie
John Hay, 2nd Lord Hay of Yester (*)
William Hay, 4th Earl of Erroll (*?)
James Henderson
Andrew Herries, 2nd Lord Herries of Terregles (*?)
Cuthbert Home of Fastcastle
David Home of Wedderburn (*)
David Kennedy, 1st Earl of Cassillis
William Leslie, 3rd Earl of Rothes
Walter Lindsay (II)
Robert Livingston of Drumry & Easter Wemyss
Thomas MacDowall
William Maitland of Thirlestane & Lethington
John Maxwell, Lord Maxwell of Carlaverock
John Murray of Blackbarony
William Murray of Castleton (*)
Colin Oliphant, Master of Oliphant
Robert Rollock/Rollo of Duncrub (*)
John Ross, 2nd Lord Ross of Halkhead
William Ruthven, Master of Ruthven (*)
John Sempill, 1st Lord Semple
Alexander Seton, 2nd of Touch
George Seton, 3rd Lord Seton
Henry Sinclair, 3rd Lord Sinclair
John Somerville of Cambusnethan
Thomas Steuart, 2nd Lord Innermeath (??)
James Stewart, 1st of Traquhair
Matthew Stewart, 2nd Earl of Lennox (*)
Andrew Stewart, 2nd Lord Avondale
Alexander Stewart, 4th Lord of Garlies
James Stuart (IV), 40th King of Scots (*)
David Wemyss of Wemyss
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Notes:
(*) - also ancestral to Charles Prince of Wales.
(**) - his son John Erskine also died at Flodden
Field and was ancestral to Charles Prince of Wales.
(??) - Two ancestries may be uncertain: Was Mary
Ogilvie the grandmother of George 1st Duke of Gordon?
Was Thomas Steuart the grandfather of John Cochrane
of Cochrane (d. 1557)?
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The above are shown, along with links to their pedigrees, at
http://tinyurl.com/yw4j6/pedix/peix47.htm#floddenx
-
Leo van de Pas
Re: Diana's ancestors fallen at Flodden Field
Many thanks, see in between
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Higgins" <jthiggins@sbcglobal.net>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 2:28 PM
Subject: Re: Diana's ancestors fallen at Flodden Field
13 July with a battle on 9 September? If he was "slain" he may have lingered
on to 6 November, and so he qualifies for the list.
asterix tells his son also killed at Flodden is an ancestor of Prince
Charles. And as I said and you now, he is not an ancestor of Lady Diana, and
therefor should not be in the list
/
Sir Robert Carnegie, 5th of Kinnaird
/
David Carnegie, of Colluthie
/
David Carnegie, 1st Earl of Southesk
/
Lady Marjorie Carnegie
/
Margaret Arbuthnott
/
Jane/Jean Forbes
/
Katherine Maitland
/
Alexander Morison, 4th of Bognie, 3rd of Fendraught
/
Katherine Morison
/
Theodore Forbes
/
Katherine Scott Forbes
/
Jane Crombie
/
Ruth Littlejohn
/
Rutyh Sylvia Gill
/
Hon. Frances Burke Roche
/
Lady Diana Spencer
John Campbell of Lawers
/
James Campbell of Lawers
/
Janet Campbell
/
Sir James (Robert) Menzies, of Menzies
/
Sir Alexander Menzies
/
Grizzel Menzies
/
Anne Stewart
/
Eupheme Seton
/
William Crichton, 2nd Earl of Dumfries
/
Lady Elizabeth Crichton
/
Alexander Montgomerie, 9th Earl of Eglintoun
/
Lady Jean Seton Montgomerie
/
Sir William Maxwell, 3rd Baronet
/
Jane Maxwell
/
Lady Georgiana Gordon
/
Lady Louisa Jane Russell
/
James Hamilton, 2nd Duke of Abercorn
/
James Albert Edward Hamilton, 3rd Duke of Abercorn
/
Lady Cynthia Hamilton
/
Edward John Spencer, 8th Earl Spencer
/
Lady Diana Spencer
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Higgins" <jthiggins@sbcglobal.net>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 2:28 PM
Subject: Re: Diana's ancestors fallen at Flodden Field
See notes on specific entries below....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leo van de Pas" <leovdpas@netspeed.com.au
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2005 3:37 PM
Subject: Re: Diana's ancestors fallen at Flodden Field
Dear James,
This is a very interesting list. A while back Ian Fettes, John Higgins
and
myself were working on a similar list. For this I want to stick to
ancestors
of Lady Diana Spencer only.
First several queries about people on your list.
1.Michael Balfour of Monquhanny I have him die in 1508
Paget gives no death date for him - I suspect you picked up the 1508 date
from the previous entry in Paget, Elizabeth Sinclair of Orkney.
Information
on various websites including e.g. Stirnet says Michael Balfour died at
Flodden.
========I have him now also killed at Flodden
2.Robert Crichton, 2nd Lord of Sanquhar, I have him die between 13 July
1513
and 6 November 1513, to me this implies he did not die at Flodden (or did
he
die of wounds?)
See CP 3:540 which gives the same date range for his death and says he
"doubtless was slain at Flodden".
=====beautiful word "slain" but what does it mean?What reference has
13 July with a battle on 9 September? If he was "slain" he may have lingered
on to 6 November, and so he qualifies for the list.
3.You have Robert Erskine, 4th Lord of Marr and John Erskine, the of
Dun,
I
have Robert Erskine, 4th of Dun who was killed at Flodden, but no John
Erskine as ancestor of Lady Diana who was killed at Flodden.
James Dow Allen's original note says that John Erskine the Younger of Dun
is
an ancestor of Charles but not of Diana - I agrere with that.
======The list for Lady Diana gives John Erskine, 4th of Dun (**) the
asterix tells his son also killed at Flodden is an ancestor of Prince
Charles. And as I said and you now, he is not an ancestor of Lady Diana, and
therefor should not be in the list
4. Guiscard Harbottle, I have him die 2 September 1518 (1516?)
Like you, I had originally thought that 1518 was the death date for
Guiscard
Harbottle - probably based on Paget who of course provided no sources.
But
an extensive Harbottle pedigree in the History of Northumberland
explicitly
says that he died at Flodden.
=======I have changed him
5. James Henderson-----is he an ancestor of Lady Diana?
Yes - via the family of Foulis of Colinton. See the website in the
original
note for details.
======I will have a look
6.Thomas Steuart, 2nd Lord Innermeath, you question him yourself, I do
not
have him as an ancestor.
This is one of those descents that is possible but not sufficiently
proven.
If valid, it goes through the the family of Barclay of Collairnie to the
wife of Sir James Sibbald, 1st Baronet. See Stirnet for an outline of the
descent with sources. One of the weak links is the dau. of this Thomas
Stewart of Innermeath.
That was the bad newsI have several additions but will not mention
those already mentioned by John Higgins, and so the following maybe new
to
John Higgins (somehow I doubt this)
1.Sir John Moncreiffe of That Ilk
You show Margaret Moncreiffe who mar. Duncan Campbell of Glenorchy as dau.
of the John Moncreiffe who d. at Flodden. But BP (as well as other
source)
says she was his sister, not his daughter.
2.Robert Maxtone, 3rd of Cultoquhey, John has him as an ancestor of
Prince
Charles, I have him also for Lady Diana
Probably correct - but he shows up first in an ahnentafel as a Charles
ancestor, so I placed him there.
3.Uchthred Macdowall, 7th of Garthland
I agree - - I went back only 19 generations and he is in generation 20.
4.John Carnegie, of Kinnaird
He is on my list as a Charles ancestor - may well be a Diana ancestor
also.
John Carnegie, of Kinnaird
/
Sir Robert Carnegie, 5th of Kinnaird
/
David Carnegie, of Colluthie
/
David Carnegie, 1st Earl of Southesk
/
Lady Marjorie Carnegie
/
Margaret Arbuthnott
/
Jane/Jean Forbes
/
Katherine Maitland
/
Alexander Morison, 4th of Bognie, 3rd of Fendraught
/
Katherine Morison
/
Theodore Forbes
/
Katherine Scott Forbes
/
Jane Crombie
/
Ruth Littlejohn
/
Rutyh Sylvia Gill
/
Hon. Frances Burke Roche
/
Lady Diana Spencer
5.John Campbell of Lawers and Auchreoch
I tried to find this connection to Diana in your database but couldn't
find
it - possibly due to timeout problems with the relationship calculator.
And
now I can't get your database to respond at all!! Can you help?
John Campbell of Lawers
/
James Campbell of Lawers
/
Janet Campbell
/
Sir James (Robert) Menzies, of Menzies
/
Sir Alexander Menzies
/
Grizzel Menzies
/
Anne Stewart
/
Eupheme Seton
/
William Crichton, 2nd Earl of Dumfries
/
Lady Elizabeth Crichton
/
Alexander Montgomerie, 9th Earl of Eglintoun
/
Lady Jean Seton Montgomerie
/
Sir William Maxwell, 3rd Baronet
/
Jane Maxwell
/
Lady Georgiana Gordon
/
Lady Louisa Jane Russell
/
James Hamilton, 2nd Duke of Abercorn
/
James Albert Edward Hamilton, 3rd Duke of Abercorn
/
Lady Cynthia Hamilton
/
Edward John Spencer, 8th Earl Spencer
/
Lady Diana Spencer
Hope this helps?
Best wishes
Leo van de Pas
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Dow Allen" <jdallen2000@yahoo.com
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2005 6:42 PM
Subject: Diana's ancestors fallen at Flodden Field
Most of us can't name 50 certain ancestors from the
15th century, but Diana Spencer Princess of Wales
had 51 ancestors who all died at the Battle of
Flodden Field.
(Some of these men were also ancestral to Diana's
husband the Prince of Wales, but I could find only
two Flodden Field fatalities ancestral to Charles
but not Diana. These are John Erskine (below) and
Thomas Maule 4th of Panmure.)
Corrections and additions welcome.
James D. Allen
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
It would be redundant to show death dates to
identify the men in the following list more clearly:
all 51 of them died on the 9th of September, 1513.
Michael Balfour of Monquhanny
Archibald Campbell, 2nd Earl of Argyll (*)
Duncan Campbell, 2nd Laird of Glenorchy (*)
Robert Colville of Hiltoun & Ochiltree
Robert Crichton, 2nd Lord of Sanquhar
William Douglas of Glenbervie
Robert Douglas of Lochleven
William Douglas, 6th Laird of Drumlanrig
George Douglas, Master of Angus (*)
Alexander Dundas of Fingask
Alexander Elphinstone, Baron Elphinstone
Robert Erskine, 4th Lord of Marr
John Erskine, 4th of Dun (**)
William Gordon of Schivas, 1st of Gight (*)
John Gordon, 2nd of Auchleuchries
Alexander Gordon, younger of Lochinvar (??)
William Graham, 1st Earl of Montrose (*)
Guiscard Harbottle
Gilbert Hay of Delgaty & Ardendraught
Thomas Hay of Logie
John Hay, 2nd Lord Hay of Yester (*)
William Hay, 4th Earl of Erroll (*?)
James Henderson
Andrew Herries, 2nd Lord Herries of Terregles (*?)
Cuthbert Home of Fastcastle
David Home of Wedderburn (*)
David Kennedy, 1st Earl of Cassillis
William Leslie, 3rd Earl of Rothes
Walter Lindsay (II)
Robert Livingston of Drumry & Easter Wemyss
Thomas MacDowall
William Maitland of Thirlestane & Lethington
John Maxwell, Lord Maxwell of Carlaverock
John Murray of Blackbarony
William Murray of Castleton (*)
Colin Oliphant, Master of Oliphant
Robert Rollock/Rollo of Duncrub (*)
John Ross, 2nd Lord Ross of Halkhead
William Ruthven, Master of Ruthven (*)
John Sempill, 1st Lord Semple
Alexander Seton, 2nd of Touch
George Seton, 3rd Lord Seton
Henry Sinclair, 3rd Lord Sinclair
John Somerville of Cambusnethan
Thomas Steuart, 2nd Lord Innermeath (??)
James Stewart, 1st of Traquhair
Matthew Stewart, 2nd Earl of Lennox (*)
Andrew Stewart, 2nd Lord Avondale
Alexander Stewart, 4th Lord of Garlies
James Stuart (IV), 40th King of Scots (*)
David Wemyss of Wemyss
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Notes:
(*) - also ancestral to Charles Prince of Wales.
(**) - his son John Erskine also died at Flodden
Field and was ancestral to Charles Prince of Wales.
(??) - Two ancestries may be uncertain: Was Mary
Ogilvie the grandmother of George 1st Duke of Gordon?
Was Thomas Steuart the grandfather of John Cochrane
of Cochrane (d. 1557)?
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The above are shown, along with links to their pedigrees, at
http://tinyurl.com/yw4j6/pedix/peix47.htm#floddenx
-
James Dow Allen
Re: Diana's ancestors fallen at Flodden Field
I wrote:
I was glad to see lots of additions rather than corrections.
"John Higgins" wrote:
I've devoted some effort to placing John's 21 additions into Lady
Di's pedigree (or her husband's), and have found the descents for
all but four of them.
Let me ask for help on these, before this thread expires.
(May not need all details: just the "AT" (ancestor) number
would be nice.)
I've come across *two* different Adam Hepburns shown dying 9 Sept 1513,
but didn't notice a descent to Diana or Charles for either of them.
Thanks for help already rendered, and any further help.
James Dow Allen
John Erskine who also died at Flodden.
He was probably the brother of Lindsay's wife, but
some sources show him as her father.
... Diana Spencer Princess of Wales
had 51 ancestors who all died at the Battle of
Flodden Field.
...
Corrections and additions welcome.
I was glad to see lots of additions rather than corrections.
"John Higgins" wrote:
I can add some more names to this list of Flodden fatalities ancestral to
either Charles or Diana. Interestingly, a few of these are English rather
than Scottish.
I've devoted some effort to placing John's 21 additions into Lady
Di's pedigree (or her husband's), and have found the descents for
all but four of them.
Let me ask for help on these, before this thread expires.
(May not need all details: just the "AT" (ancestor) number
would be nice.)
Sir Adam Hepburn of Craigs
John Keith of Craig
Allan Lockhart, 2nd of Cleghorn
David Lyon of Braky
I've come across *two* different Adam Hepburns shown dying 9 Sept 1513,
but didn't notice a descent to Diana or Charles for either of them.
Thanks for help already rendered, and any further help.
James Dow Allen
Walter Lindsay (II)
His wife (Elizabeth?) had two relatives both named
John Erskine who also died at Flodden.
John Erskine, 4th of Dun (**)
This "ancestor of Diana" should have been marked uncertain.
He was probably the brother of Lindsay's wife, but
some sources show him as her father.
-
John Higgins
Re: Diana's ancestors fallen at Flodden Field
Here are the descents that you're interested in. In each case they're
carried to the point where a husband and wife show up together in Leo's
Genealogics database - they can be easily followed onward there.
Some of the steps in these descents have better support than others -
further research is always prudent.
HEPBURN OF CRAIGS:
Sir Adam Hepburn of Craigs; m. Elizabeth Ogstoun
Elizabeth Hepburn of Craigs (d. by 6.X.1548); m. by VII.1525 Alexander
Livingston of Dunipace and Phildes (d. after 27.VIII.1560)
John Livingston, elder, of Dunipace (d. ca. 1598); m. before 8.V.1552
Margaret Elphinstone (b. 14.II.1528)
John Livingston of Dunipace (d. 1619) [possibly mar. Margaret Colville of
Ochiltree]
Margaret Livingston; m. (1) contract 24.XI.1590 James Arbuthnott of Arrat
(d. 1606)
Margaret [or Isobell] Livingston [dau. of Alexander above]; m. John
Strachan of Thornton (living 1590)
Elizabeth [or Katherine] Strachan of Thornton; m. William Forbes, 4th of
Corse (d. 1596)
KEITH OF CRAIG:
John Keith of Craig [son of 1st E. Marischal]; m. a dau. of Alexander
Leslie, 1st of Wardis
John Keith of Craig (d. ca. 1535); m. a dau. of Lindsay of Edzell [possibly
Sir David]
John Keith of Craig (living 1539)
James Keith of Craig (living 1570); m. Katherine, dau. of William Fullerton
of Craigoe [or Craighill?]
James Keith of Craig and Drumtochty (living 1590, 1620); m. Margaret Keith
of Clackernach
Margaret Keith of Drumtochty; m. Robert Maitland of Pitrichie
Patrick Maitland of Pitrichie [and Auchincreef] (living 1632); m. contract
27.IX.1607 Katherine Burnett of Leys
LOCKHART OF CLEGHORN:
Allan Lockhart, 2nd of Cleghorn; m. Katherine Whitefourd [he may have d.
in 1501, rather than at Flodden]
Alexander Lockhart, 3rd of of Cleghorn (d. 1567-9); m. (twice)
LYON OF BRAKY:
David Lyon of Braky; m. ca. 1505 Elizabeth Lindsay [dau. of D. of Montrose]
John Lyon of Haltoun, 1st of Cossins (living 1.XII.1585); m. Marjorie [or
Mary] Ogilvy [dau. of 3rd L. Ogilvy]
John Lyon, 2nd of Cossins (living 1610); m. before 1581 (probably her 3rd)
Margaret [or Jean] Drummond of Balloch
John Lyon, 3rd of Cossins (d. after 22.V.1637); m. (2?) Jean Campbell
Thomas Lyon, 5th of Cossins (living 16.V.1659); m. contract 30.VII and 7
and 29.VIII.1607 Jean [or Janet] Young (b. 1587)
Euphemia Lyon of Cossins; m. Robert Duff (d. 2.VII.1645, battle of Alford)
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Dow Allen" <jdallen2000@yahoo.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 9:05 PM
Subject: Re: Diana's ancestors fallen at Flodden Field
carried to the point where a husband and wife show up together in Leo's
Genealogics database - they can be easily followed onward there.
Some of the steps in these descents have better support than others -
further research is always prudent.
HEPBURN OF CRAIGS:
Sir Adam Hepburn of Craigs; m. Elizabeth Ogstoun
Elizabeth Hepburn of Craigs (d. by 6.X.1548); m. by VII.1525 Alexander
Livingston of Dunipace and Phildes (d. after 27.VIII.1560)
John Livingston, elder, of Dunipace (d. ca. 1598); m. before 8.V.1552
Margaret Elphinstone (b. 14.II.1528)
John Livingston of Dunipace (d. 1619) [possibly mar. Margaret Colville of
Ochiltree]
Margaret Livingston; m. (1) contract 24.XI.1590 James Arbuthnott of Arrat
(d. 1606)
Margaret [or Isobell] Livingston [dau. of Alexander above]; m. John
Strachan of Thornton (living 1590)
Elizabeth [or Katherine] Strachan of Thornton; m. William Forbes, 4th of
Corse (d. 1596)
KEITH OF CRAIG:
John Keith of Craig [son of 1st E. Marischal]; m. a dau. of Alexander
Leslie, 1st of Wardis
John Keith of Craig (d. ca. 1535); m. a dau. of Lindsay of Edzell [possibly
Sir David]
John Keith of Craig (living 1539)
James Keith of Craig (living 1570); m. Katherine, dau. of William Fullerton
of Craigoe [or Craighill?]
James Keith of Craig and Drumtochty (living 1590, 1620); m. Margaret Keith
of Clackernach
Margaret Keith of Drumtochty; m. Robert Maitland of Pitrichie
Patrick Maitland of Pitrichie [and Auchincreef] (living 1632); m. contract
27.IX.1607 Katherine Burnett of Leys
LOCKHART OF CLEGHORN:
Allan Lockhart, 2nd of Cleghorn; m. Katherine Whitefourd [he may have d.
in 1501, rather than at Flodden]
Alexander Lockhart, 3rd of of Cleghorn (d. 1567-9); m. (twice)
LYON OF BRAKY:
David Lyon of Braky; m. ca. 1505 Elizabeth Lindsay [dau. of D. of Montrose]
John Lyon of Haltoun, 1st of Cossins (living 1.XII.1585); m. Marjorie [or
Mary] Ogilvy [dau. of 3rd L. Ogilvy]
John Lyon, 2nd of Cossins (living 1610); m. before 1581 (probably her 3rd)
Margaret [or Jean] Drummond of Balloch
John Lyon, 3rd of Cossins (d. after 22.V.1637); m. (2?) Jean Campbell
Thomas Lyon, 5th of Cossins (living 16.V.1659); m. contract 30.VII and 7
and 29.VIII.1607 Jean [or Janet] Young (b. 1587)
Euphemia Lyon of Cossins; m. Robert Duff (d. 2.VII.1645, battle of Alford)
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Dow Allen" <jdallen2000@yahoo.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 9:05 PM
Subject: Re: Diana's ancestors fallen at Flodden Field
I wrote:
... Diana Spencer Princess of Wales
had 51 ancestors who all died at the Battle of
Flodden Field.
...
Corrections and additions welcome.
I was glad to see lots of additions rather than corrections.
"John Higgins" wrote:
I can add some more names to this list of Flodden fatalities ancestral
to
either Charles or Diana. Interestingly, a few of these are English
rather
than Scottish.
I've devoted some effort to placing John's 21 additions into Lady
Di's pedigree (or her husband's), and have found the descents for
all but four of them.
Let me ask for help on these, before this thread expires.
(May not need all details: just the "AT" (ancestor) number
would be nice.)
Sir Adam Hepburn of Craigs
John Keith of Craig
Allan Lockhart, 2nd of Cleghorn
David Lyon of Braky
I've come across *two* different Adam Hepburns shown dying 9 Sept 1513,
but didn't notice a descent to Diana or Charles for either of them.
Thanks for help already rendered, and any further help.
James Dow Allen