All,
Apologize for the redux.
Has a consensus been reached in the case of Gundred de Warrenne? Has she
been eliminated as the mother of Avice of Lancaster based on the chronology
discussion?
And, it there satisfactory evidence of the first wife of Alan of Galloway?
Did he marry two de Lacy women?
From collected sources, is all or part of the following subject to
correction?
Thank you very much for clarifications,
Pat
Ivo de Tailbois
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Eldred
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Ketel
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Gilbert
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1. William de Lancaster I d. c. 1171-2 m. Gundred de Warrenne b. c. 1107-27,
d. 1167+ m. 1) Roger de Newburgh b. 1102, d. 12 Jun 1151-3.
[GUNDRED4 DE WARENNE (William II3, William2, Rodolf1) of Warwick,
daughter of (3) William II3, 2nd Earl of Surrey and (S-26) Countess
Isabel (Elizabeth) (de VERMANDOIS) (BEAUMONT), was born between 1107 and
1127, died after 1167 in Warwickshire and was buried in Kelso,
Roxburghshire. She married (1st) before 1130, (AJ-27) ROGER DE NEWBURGH, 2ND
EARL OF WARWICK, son of (AJ-15) Henry, 1st Earl of Warwick and (AH-3)
Margaret (de PERCHE), who was born in 1102 in Warwick, and died on 12 June
1151/3 in Warwickshire. She married (2nd) circa 1154, (UL-2) WILLIAM DE
LANCASTER I, 5TH BARON KENDAL, son of (UL-1) Gilbert, 4th Baron Kendal, who
died in 1170[2]. [6, 24, 8, 15, 14, 10, 1] Children of: Gundred4 de WARENNE
and Roger de NEWBURGH, 2nd Earl of Warwick: See (AJ-27) Roger de NEWBURGH,
2nd Earl of Warwick:Sources cited--Frederick Lewis Weis, "Ancestral Roots of
Certain American Colonists", 7th ed., Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc.,
1999;Gary Boyd Roberts, "Royal Descents of 500 Immigrants", Genealogical
Publishing Co., 2002, p.429;on Redlich, Marcellus Donald Alexander R.,
"Pedigrees of Some of the Emperor Charlemagne's Descendants, Vol. I",
Genealogical Publishing Co., 1941, p.121;Aileen Lewers Langston and J. Orton
Buck, Jr., "Pedigrees of Some of the Emperor Charlemagne's Descendants, Vol.
II", Genealogical Publishing Co., 1974, p.109, 306;J. Orton Buck and Timothy
Field Beard, "Pedigrees of Some of the Emperor Charlemagne's Descendants,
Vol. III", Genealogical Publishing Co., 1978, p.109, 113, 198, 211,
etc.
http://armidalesoftware.com/issue/full/ ... _main.html]
by whom:
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1a.Avice m. Richard de Morville, b. c. 1154 d. 1189-1200 s/o Hugh and
Beatrice Beauchamp,bro. to Maud who m. William de Veteri Ponte whose son
Ivo de Veteripont d. 1239 m. Isabel de Lancaster
1a1. Elena de Morville d. 1217 d/o Richard m. Roland, Lord of
Galloway, d. 1200. On 25 June 1213 Elena/Helena to show why she did not keep
the fine made in the King's court by chirograph..land in
Wissindene..recovered her land.
1a1a. Alan of Galloway d. 1234 m. 1) ____ Lacy sis or dau of
Roger de Lacy,of Pontefract, presumably dead bef. 1209; 2) m. c. 1209
Margaret of Huntingdon, 3) m. 1228, Rose daughter of Hugh de Lacy Earl of
Ulster by 1st wife, Lesceline de Verdun
On Wed, 3 Jan 1996 18:56:57 -0800 GEN-MEDIEVALFrom: Kathleen Much
<kathleen@CASBS.STANFORD.EDU>
Subject: Re: HELEN OF GALLOWAY ":K.J. Stringer, ed. _Essays of the
Nobility of Medieval Scotland_ (Edinburgh, 1985), p. 49, says Alan married
a sister of John de Lacy, Constable of Chester and future Earl of Lincoln,
Margaret, daughter of Earl David of Huntingdon, and Rose, daughter of Hugh
de Lacy, Earl of Ulster. He does not say in that article why he thinks
the first wife was a sister of John de Lacy; he published an article called
"A New Wife for Alan of Galloway" in a journal he cited to me as 'TDGAS'--I
don't remember what TDGAS stands for (probably Transactions of Dumfries and
Galloway something), and I can't put my hands on the offprint. Several years
ago Keith Stringer told me he was preparing an article on Alan for a
festschrift for Geoffrey Barrow," RE: recent thread:
by first wife:
1a1a1a Helen b. bef. 1208 m. Roger de Quincy who m.
2)Alianore by Margaret of Huntingdon [see below Kippax-Scholes ]
1a1a2) Christian d.1213 in custody of Roger fitz Roger
1a1a3) Devorguilla d. 1289
by Rose ?
Kevin Bradford Gen-Med: dated 1214 CE, which reads as follows:
Cumb'.-Willelmus de Jonesbi [JONEBI?]Alanus de Camberton' Adam de Hocton',
tres milites de comitatu Cumberland' missi ad Carleolum in occursum Elene de
Morevill' et Alani de Galweia filii ejus ad videndum quem atornatum ipsa
Elena facere voluisset etc. in loquela que est inter ipsam et abbatem de
Londores de advocatione ecclesie de Wissenden' in comitatu Roteland' et ad
videndum quem atornatum idem Alanus facere voluerit etc. in loquela que est
inter ipsum et Johannem de Cestr' de warantia carte de terra de Kippes
[KIPPAX] in comitatu Ebor', dicunt quod Elena point loco suo Adam de
Torinton' vel Hamonem Clericum versus abbatem de Londor' de placito ecclesie
de Wissenden' in comitatu Roteland'. Dicunt etiam quod Alanus de Galweye
posuit etc. eundem Hamonem Clericum vel Ricardum de Crevequor versus
Johannem de Cestr' de placito warantie carte de terra in Kipesc in comitatu
Ebor'. Et dictum est illis tribus militibus quod eant sine die. Et quoniam
Willelmus de Percy quartus miles non venit, q!ui! debuit testificasse simul
cum ipsis atornatos predictorum, consideratum est quod atachietur quod sit a
die Pasche in tres septimanas. Post venit Willelmus de Percy et dixit
idem......
(There) is a maritagium suit in the same source [_Curia Regis Rolls_],
further down on p. 86, under date of 1214 CE, which reads: Ebor'.-Alanus de
Galweye per predictos Hamonem Clericum et Ricardum de Crevequor optulit se
quarto die versus Johannem de Cestr' de placito quod idem Johannes
warantizet cartas Ricardi patris sui quas Alanus de Galweye habet de
maritagio sororis sue: et ipse non venit vel se essoniavit etc., et
summonitio etc. Et ideo atachietur quod sit ad predictum terminum etc.
1211-12 Alan of Galloway and Elana his Mother owe 500 marks and six palfreys
for recognizance of the land of
[Wixindene(Wissendene)[Rutland]and Bosegate whereof Richard de Moreville
Helana's father was seized on the day when war began between K Henry and
William K of Scotland, and whether Richard was disseized there off on any
other account than the aforesaid war. ]
Beatrice de Beauchamp¹s maritagium included "...four knights' fees
respectively at Bozeat, Northants, Whissendine and Whitwell in Rutland,
Offord in Huntingdonshire, and Houghton Conquest beside Bedford--the 5 hides
at Houghton having been originally acquired by Hugh de Beauchamp, Beatrice's
grandfather, probably not long before 1086."[G. W. S. Barrow, "The
Anglo-Norman Era in Scottish History," Oxford, 1980, citation provided by
Kathleen Much (
kathleen@casbs.stanford.edu), SGM, 3 January 1996.,
http://www.hypertree.com/galloway/fergus.html cites G.W.S. Barrow, _The
Anglo-Norman Era in Scottish History_ (Oxford, 1980), p. 17;, also K.J.
Stringer, ed. _Essays of the Nobility of Medieval Scotland_ (Edinburgh,
1985). From:
Therav3@aol.com To:
GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re:
Morville - Stuteville question Date: Tue, Nov 23, 2004, 6:57 AM Tuesday, 23
November, 2004
MANORIAL - ref. DD/FJ/6MANORS OF EARL OF LINCOLN- ref. DD/FJ/6/1/1 - date:
1278Bradeford and Kipeys (Bradford and Kippax, Yorks.).Corporation of London
Records Office Royal Contract Estates Catalogue Ref. CLA/044
Surveys and rentals - ref. CLA/044/03 Observations upon the 14 Manors
within the "Honor of Pontfract in the countie of Yorkshire ...are: Allerton,
Ackworth, Barwick, Bighall, Campsall, Cridlinge, South Elmeshall, Kippax,
Knottingley, Leedes, Marsden, Rothwell, Roundhay and Scoles..Manors of
Ledston, Kippax and Barwick, had been granted to Ilbert de Lascy as part of
the Honour of Pontefract.. At some time after this, Barwick and Scholes
became separate manors. By about 1240 in the early part of the reign of
Henry III, the lordship of the manor of Scholes had by some means passed to
Roger de Quency, Earl of Winchester. In 1253-4, the manor was returned to
the de Lascy family when Roger de Quency transferred it to Edmund de Lascy
in an exchange. In 1256, in a settlement made for the marriage of Henry de
Lascy, son of Edmund, and Margaret, daughter of Sir William Longespee,
Edmund gave the manors of Scholes and Kippax to Margaret for her life. On
her death they came to her husband. In 1294, Alice de Lascy, the heiress of
the family estates, married Thomas, 2nd. Earl of Lancaster and nephew of the
King, Edward 1. The de Lascy lands then became part of the vast Lancaster
estates, which extended over many parts of the
country.[http://www.hjsmith.clara.co.uk/4913.htm]
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2.William de Lancaster II d. 1184 m. Helewise de Stuteville[ also m. Hugh de
Morville of Burgh (Simon's line) and William son of Ranulf, lord of
Greystoke] by whom:
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3. Helewise de Lancaster m. Gilbert son of Roger son of Reinfrid (usually
known as Gilbert Fitz Fitz Reinfrid), Baron of Kendal, held great baronies
of Westmoreland. [William de Lancaster, the second, died in 1184, and left
an only daughter, Helewisa, who was given in marriage by Henry II to
Gilbert, the son of his steward Roger fitz Reinfrid, with her entire
inheritance. Gilbert commanded to meet King at Solway in 1217] by whom:
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4. William de Lancaster III
4.Helewisa m. Peter de Brus
4.Alice m. W. de Lindsay
4.Serota m. ____ Multon
4.Roger of Lancaster, Gilbert Fitz Reinfrid¹s illegitimate son
Sources:Nicholson and Burn: The History and Antiquities of the Counties of
Westmoreland and Cumberland. A History of Cumberland [Sciant omnes tam
presentes quam futuri quod ego Willelmus de Lancastra cum consilio consensu
et concessione Willelmi fili et heredis me dedi et concessi et hac presenti
carta mea confirmavi Cospatricio filio Orme.......";CWAAS.