Hi Group
Does anyone know the ancestry and descent of the Counts of Friesach in
the 11th century. It was part of the German empire, now Slovenia. Did
the line become extinct with St.Hemma (d.1044) and her son William II?
mike
Counts of Friesach
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Peter Stewart
Re: Counts of Friesach
"mike" <dmike204@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1128006569.435409.179290@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
The information you have found appears to be misleading. Friesach was within
the lands of a comital dynasty, but they are usually referred to as counts
of the Upper Salzburggau, or counts in Carinthia, rather than of Friesach in
particular.
According to Franz Tyroller [in _Genealogische Tafeln zur mitteleuropäischen
Geschichte_, edited by Wilhelm Wegener (Göttingen, 1962-1969), 118-120 &
table 7], Count William I is recorded in Carinthia in 923/4, William II in
959/63. The latter was father of William III (died 29 September ca 1010,
whose wife was Leopirgis (died 20 August, year unknown) and a younger son
named Liutold I (occurring in 963).
William III & Leopirgis were parents of William IV and Liutold II. William
IV was also margrave on the Sann - he was murdered on 20 March 1036. His
wife was the Hemma you have as dying in 1044, but only the date of her death
(29 June) is recorded and not the year. She outlived her husband and both
their sons, Hartwig and William V (who is usually called count of Friesach),
leaving no further descendants. Hemma was described as countess of Friesach
& Traunkirchen ("comitissa de Frisaco et de Truhsen") in an account of
Balduin, archbishop of Salzburg (1042/60). She is sometimes called Hemma of
Gurk from her notice in a necrology of Salzburg cathedral ("Hemma comitissa
de Gurka").
Liutold II married a lady called Willibirg, whose mother had the same name,
and they were ancestors of the counts of Plain and Hardeck: this line became
extinct in the late 13th century.
Peter Stewart
news:1128006569.435409.179290@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Hi Group
Does anyone know the ancestry and descent of the Counts of Friesach in
the 11th century. It was part of the German empire, now Slovenia. Did
the line become extinct with St.Hemma (d.1044) and her son William II?
The information you have found appears to be misleading. Friesach was within
the lands of a comital dynasty, but they are usually referred to as counts
of the Upper Salzburggau, or counts in Carinthia, rather than of Friesach in
particular.
According to Franz Tyroller [in _Genealogische Tafeln zur mitteleuropäischen
Geschichte_, edited by Wilhelm Wegener (Göttingen, 1962-1969), 118-120 &
table 7], Count William I is recorded in Carinthia in 923/4, William II in
959/63. The latter was father of William III (died 29 September ca 1010,
whose wife was Leopirgis (died 20 August, year unknown) and a younger son
named Liutold I (occurring in 963).
William III & Leopirgis were parents of William IV and Liutold II. William
IV was also margrave on the Sann - he was murdered on 20 March 1036. His
wife was the Hemma you have as dying in 1044, but only the date of her death
(29 June) is recorded and not the year. She outlived her husband and both
their sons, Hartwig and William V (who is usually called count of Friesach),
leaving no further descendants. Hemma was described as countess of Friesach
& Traunkirchen ("comitissa de Frisaco et de Truhsen") in an account of
Balduin, archbishop of Salzburg (1042/60). She is sometimes called Hemma of
Gurk from her notice in a necrology of Salzburg cathedral ("Hemma comitissa
de Gurka").
Liutold II married a lady called Willibirg, whose mother had the same name,
and they were ancestors of the counts of Plain and Hardeck: this line became
extinct in the late 13th century.
Peter Stewart
-
mike
Re: Counts of Friesach
Peter Stewart wrote:
thanks very much. since i posted i found that i was also mistaken about
Friesach being in Slovenia. apparently its in austria, Karnten. I was
mislead by a website which said the locals were slovenian. Also i found
on the web that the Friesach were descended from an earlier carolingian
clan called the Wilhelminer. Is this true? who were the Wilhelminer? Or
is it just an assumption cos most of the Friesach family are called
William/Wilhelm?
thanks
mike
"mike" <dmike204@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1128006569.435409.179290@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Hi Group
Does anyone know the ancestry and descent of the Counts of Friesach in
the 11th century. It was part of the German empire, now Slovenia. Did
the line become extinct with St.Hemma (d.1044) and her son William II?
The information you have found appears to be misleading. Friesach was within
the lands of a comital dynasty, but they are usually referred to as counts
of the Upper Salzburggau, or counts in Carinthia, rather than of Friesach in
particular.
According to Franz Tyroller [in _Genealogische Tafeln zur mitteleuropäischen
Geschichte_, edited by Wilhelm Wegener (Göttingen, 1962-1969), 118-120 &
table 7], Count William I is recorded in Carinthia in 923/4, William II in
959/63. The latter was father of William III (died 29 September ca 1010,
whose wife was Leopirgis (died 20 August, year unknown) and a younger son
named Liutold I (occurring in 963).
Peter Stewart
thanks very much. since i posted i found that i was also mistaken about
Friesach being in Slovenia. apparently its in austria, Karnten. I was
mislead by a website which said the locals were slovenian. Also i found
on the web that the Friesach were descended from an earlier carolingian
clan called the Wilhelminer. Is this true? who were the Wilhelminer? Or
is it just an assumption cos most of the Friesach family are called
William/Wilhelm?
thanks
mike
-
Peter Stewart
Re: Counts of Friesach
"mike" <dmike204@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1129222569.012639.300510@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Nothing is known for certain about the ancestry of Wilhelm I of the line in
question. He appears as a count in Carinthia in the early 920s, and various
conjectures have been made on the strength of his name. German scholars have
tended to label lineages such as his after their leading names, in this case
Wilhelm and Liutold, which can be misleading.
Tyroller in the work cited above speculated that he may have been a son of
Otachar, count in the Loebnergau ca 904 who was killed in battle near
Pressburg on 4 July 907, by Rihni who occurs with a subsequent husband in
the 920s, said to be a daughter of Aribo I, margrave in the Ostmark. Others
have suggested that Otachar was actually the son of Aribo, and that Wilhelm
probably did not belong to their family.
Peter Stewart
news:1129222569.012639.300510@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Peter Stewart wrote:
"mike" <dmike204@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1128006569.435409.179290@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Hi Group
Does anyone know the ancestry and descent of the Counts of Friesach in
the 11th century. It was part of the German empire, now Slovenia. Did
the line become extinct with St.Hemma (d.1044) and her son William II?
The information you have found appears to be misleading. Friesach was
within
the lands of a comital dynasty, but they are usually referred to as
counts
of the Upper Salzburggau, or counts in Carinthia, rather than of
Friesach in
particular.
According to Franz Tyroller [in _Genealogische Tafeln zur
mitteleuropäischen
Geschichte_, edited by Wilhelm Wegener (Göttingen, 1962-1969), 118-120 &
table 7], Count William I is recorded in Carinthia in 923/4, William II
in
959/63. The latter was father of William III (died 29 September ca 1010,
whose wife was Leopirgis (died 20 August, year unknown) and a younger
son
named Liutold I (occurring in 963).
Peter Stewart
thanks very much. since i posted i found that i was also mistaken about
Friesach being in Slovenia. apparently its in austria, Karnten. I was
mislead by a website which said the locals were slovenian. Also i found
on the web that the Friesach were descended from an earlier carolingian
clan called the Wilhelminer. Is this true? who were the Wilhelminer? Or
is it just an assumption cos most of the Friesach family are called
William/Wilhelm?
Nothing is known for certain about the ancestry of Wilhelm I of the line in
question. He appears as a count in Carinthia in the early 920s, and various
conjectures have been made on the strength of his name. German scholars have
tended to label lineages such as his after their leading names, in this case
Wilhelm and Liutold, which can be misleading.
Tyroller in the work cited above speculated that he may have been a son of
Otachar, count in the Loebnergau ca 904 who was killed in battle near
Pressburg on 4 July 907, by Rihni who occurs with a subsequent husband in
the 920s, said to be a daughter of Aribo I, margrave in the Ostmark. Others
have suggested that Otachar was actually the son of Aribo, and that Wilhelm
probably did not belong to their family.
Peter Stewart