Alan Fitz Roland of Galloway-Morville

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Patricia Junkin

Alan Fitz Roland of Galloway-Morville

Legg inn av Patricia Junkin » 29 sep 2005 01:07:02

This is the information that I have on the Morville's and Alan's
relationship to his cousin Ivo de Vipont.


Hugh de Morville d. 1162 m. Beatrice Beauchamp
1) Richard de Morville m. Avice of Lancaster
a. Elena de Morville m. Roland of Galloway
a1. Alan of Galloway held Kirkebythore (Westm.)of his Morville
inheritance.
[QUESTION WAS A DE LACY THE MOTHER OF ALAN'S DAUGHTER ELENA WHO MARRIED
ROGER DE QUINCY PER RECENT DISCUSSION?]

2) Maud de Morville m. William Vipont
a. Ivo Vipont b. bef. 1160 married first, Isabel of Lancaster (perhaps
sister to Avice)
second Sybil Thorsby?; was as a young man with Roland during the
invasion of Galloway and as a result probably received Sorbie


In 1201, Alan son of Rolland the constable, .... John de Hasting, ...
William de Vipont,...and, Ivo de Vipont, witness a charter of William I of
Scotland."Alan of Galloway whose daughter Eleanor married Roger de Quincy,
drew heavily on the former de Morville connection-knights from Cunningham
and Largs (e.g. Hugh of Ardrossan, Alexander de Nehou, Alan and Robert de
Ros) from Lauderdale (e.g. Peter Haig, Richard Maitland, Vivian de Molyneux)
and from English Cumbria (e.g Roger de Beauchamp, William of Muncaster, Ivo
de Vieuxpont.) Sir Ivo de Vieuxpont is noted in Galloway feu of Sorbie, with
two mentions of occurrences with Alan of Galloway and four mentions of
attestations of Scottish royal acts c. 1200-1234" Medieval Scotland; Crown,
Lordship and Community, ³Periphery and Core: Alan of Galloway.² p. 99
Pat
----------
From: "Chris Phillips" <cgp@medievalgenealogy.org.uk
To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: 1st wife of Alan Fitz Roland of Galloway
Date: Wed, Sep 28, 2005, 6:13 PM



John P. Ravilious wrote:
I show Beatrice de Beauchamp as great-grandmother of Alan of
Galloway; further, that she was daughter of Robert de Beauchamp (d. bef
1137) and sister of Payn. This would (if correct) take out the
possible de Vere relationship between Alan of Galloway and the Lacy
constable(s).


Yes, you're quite right. In my excitement I carelessly omitted a generation
of Morvilles. So Beatrice was Alan's great grandmother, not his grandmother.

And looking at the chronology, the relationship I found on the Internet -
claiming Beatrice as a daughter of Payn de Beauchamp by Rohese de Vere - is
clearly quite impossible chronologically. Oh well - at least I was right to
be cautious about that!

One problem with this consanguinity clue is that - according to Nat Taylor's
online reference (http://www.rootsweb.com/~medieval/consang.htm) - up until
1215 marriage was theoretically prohibited up to the 7th degree (not the 4th
as was the case later on). I don't know how many of Alan's marriages took
place before 1215, but evidently the one we're discussing did. So the
relationship could be a very distant one indeed.

Chris Phillips



Kevin Bradford

Re: Alan Fitz Roland of Galloway-Morville

Legg inn av Kevin Bradford » 29 sep 2005 05:16:01

Ormerod, when speaking of the constable, John Fitz Richard [de Lacy], says that,

"...he had issue Roger, Eustace, Richard, Galfride, Peter, and Alice." (History of Cheshire, v. 1, p. 126 [1882])

The above Alice is one of the candidates put forth as Alan Fitz Roland's 1st wife.

Kevin
Plantagenet Genealogy & Biography: http://home.earthlink.net/~plantagenet6 ... enet01.htm

From: "Patricia Junkin" <pajunkin@cox.net>
Subject: Alan Fitz Roland of Galloway-Morville
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 19:07:28 -0400

[QUESTION WAS A DE LACY THE MOTHER OF ALAN'S DAUGHTER ELENA WHO MARRIED
ROGER DE QUINCY PER RECENT DISCUSSION?]

Kevin Bradford

Re: Alan Fitz Roland of Galloway-Morville

Legg inn av Kevin Bradford » 29 sep 2005 05:17:02

I should have added, most of the secondary sources I have seen indicate that Elena (or Helen) was a product of Alan Fitz Roland's 1st marriage. Thus my interest in bringing the question to the newsgroup.

Best,
Kevin

-----Forwarded Message-----
From: Kevin Bradford <plantagenet60@earthlink.net>
Sent: Sep 28, 2005 10:42 PM
To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: Alan Fitz Roland of Galloway-Morville

Ormerod, when speaking of the constable, John Fitz Richard [de Lacy], says that,

"...he had issue Roger, Eustace, Richard, Galfride, Peter, and Alice." (History of Cheshire, v. 1, p. 126 [1882])

The above Alice is one of the candidates put forth as Alan Fitz Roland's 1st wife.

Kevin
Plantagenet Genealogy & Biography: http://home.earthlink.net/~plantagenet6 ... enet01.htm

From: "Patricia Junkin" <pajunkin@cox.net>
Subject: Alan Fitz Roland of Galloway-Morville
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 19:07:28 -0400

[QUESTION WAS A DE LACY THE MOTHER OF ALAN'S DAUGHTER ELENA WHO MARRIED
ROGER DE QUINCY PER RECENT DISCUSSION?]

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