Henry VIII's fertility: separating fact from fiction

Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper

Svar
Tony Hoskins

Henry VIII's fertility: separating fact from fiction

Legg inn av Tony Hoskins » 28 sep 2005 01:26:02

Hello John,

Thanks so much for your posting - full of excellent information and
(especially) sound common sense.

You saved me from having to detail the relatively recent origin of the
venereal disease legend about Henry VIII. Likewise the legend regarding
the "monstrous" fetus.

Some of what we do know about Henry VIII includes that he and his first
wife were not successful breeders *together*. We also know he had a
healthy acknowledged son in 1519, also (almost certainly) a healthy
(unacknowledged) daughter and son in about 1524 and 1526. And, though
the evidence is not compelling, it is nonetheless not prima facie worthy
of dismissal, probably at least another child, later Sir John Perrot,
born about 1527 - and possibly others. It needs perhaps to be emphasized
that Henry VIII would *not* under normal circumstances (and almost any
other circumstances imaginable) acknowledge his bastards born to married
women. This point seems to elude many people. This is why immersion in
the history, culture, and mores of the times is essential in weighing
historical evidence. The 1520s and 1530s were not in these matters
remotely similar to this Glorious Age of Aquarius in which we live.

We also know Henry VIII grew bloated and presumably unhealthy as the
1530s passed. And, if his ulcerous leg was at all related to diabetes
(for instance) this may partially or entirely account for any *possible*
fertility problems as he aged. So might the simple fact of aging. But,
who knows.

Not only is the venereal disease legend of recent creation, the very
"fact" of his infertility is based on woefully insufficient evidence.

Tony Hoskins



Anthony Hoskins
History, Genealogy and Archives Librarian
History and Genealogy Library
Sonoma County Library
3rd and E Streets
Santa Rosa, California 95404

707/545-0831, ext. 562

Dora Smith

Re: Henry VIII's fertility: separating fact from fiction

Legg inn av Dora Smith » 28 sep 2005 01:58:01

Henry VIII and Catherine of Aragon had seven or eight children, including
several boys. When she was 15, only Mary was left alive.

I strongly suspect homozygous porphyria had something to do with it. Both
Henry VIII and Catherine of Aragon were siblings of people proven to have
carried that gene. Children with two of the defective gene were not
unlikely likely to be stillborn, sickly as children, and unlikely to live
past puberty, and even today those who do have an even liklihood of severe
neurological damage.

What is more, the high levels of lead and alcohol children ingested in those
days almost certainly contributed to the high rate of porphyria-type illness
in royal children, such that it did not take two of the defective gene to
produce life-threatening attacks of illness before puberty. A nephew of
George VI of England was medically confirmed to have porphyria; I have the
book by the man who interviewed the doctor. George VI's attacks of
illness (as an adult) were more classically typical of porphyria than were
George III's very severe and highly aggravated attacks. Months-long
attacks of abdominal pain and vomiting with extreme restlessness and
anxiety. George VI had his first attack as an infant; the alcoholic nurse
wasn't feeding him, wasn't keeping him (and probably also the nursery)
clean, in an environment surely heavily painted with lead paint, and dosed
the kids with alcohol and probably stronger stuff to keep them from crying.
Both he and David were affected, and it is not well known that the father of
the porphyric nephew had even worse health than George VI's. The youngest
child, John, had severe progressive neurological damage adn died just before
puberty. Both parents were perfectly inbred descendants of the 18th
century kings of England and Prussia.

Yours,
Dora Smith
Austin, Texas
villandra@austin.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Hoskins" <hoskins@sonoma.lib.ca.us>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 6:24 PM
Subject: Henry VIII's fertility: separating fact from fiction


You saved me from having to detail the relatively recent origin of the
venereal disease legend about Henry VIII. Likewise the legend regarding
the "monstrous" fetus.

Some of what we do know about Henry VIII includes that he and his first
wife were not successful breeders *together*. We also know he had a
healthy acknowledged son in 1519, also (almost certainly) a healthy
(unacknowledged) daughter and son in about 1524 and 1526

Todd A. Farmerie

Re: Henry VIII's fertility: separating fact from fiction

Legg inn av Todd A. Farmerie » 28 sep 2005 03:24:15

Dora Smith wrote:
Henry VIII and Catherine of Aragon had seven or eight children, including
several boys. When she was 15, only Mary was left alive.

I strongly suspect homozygous porphyria had something to do with it. Both
Henry VIII and Catherine of Aragon were siblings of people proven to have
carried that gene.

This is not the case, at least the last I heard - it would require
characterization of the specific gene mutation involved, and then
extracting DNA from bones of known provenance and showing the mutation
was present in the DNA of the individuals in question. This has not
been done. A case has been made that porphyria passed through Henry's
sister Margaret, and that his brother Arthur may have suffered from it,
but neither of these is proven. (As to Catherine, the evidence is not
even that strong, and I find it highly unlikely, given so few
intermarriages, that with a 50% chance in each generation the gene just
happened to follow the royal line on both sides.) Last I knew, it had
not been proven that George III had the disease, although a stronger
case can be made on his part due to the types of surviving medical
evidence, and the proven fact (and this is proven) that two (last I
knew) descendants of his father have been shown by DNA analysis to carry
a deffective gene.

taf

Svar

Gå tilbake til «soc.genealogy.medieval»