_RootsWeb: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L Cuthbert Ogle, Rector 1475 to 1546_
(http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/GE ... 1127418831)
Lynn~
Have you seen the account of Sir Cuthbert Ogle, clerk, on pp. 191-193 of Sir
Henry A. Ogle's Ogle and Bothal: or A History of the Baronies of Ogle,
Bothal, and Hepple... (Newcastle-upon-Tyne, 1902)? This will probably add a lot
to your knowledge of him if you haven't already seen it.
Todd Whitesides
Cuthbert Ogle, Rector 1475 to 1546
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Chris Dickinson
Re: Cuthbert Ogle, Rector 1475 to 1546
Todd Whitesides wrote:
Ah, this may be an example of a misplaced 'sir'.
I don't know whether Cuthbert Ogle was a knight (but I rather imagine not).
The courtesy of 'sir' was commonly given to clergymen in northern England up
to at least the seventeenth century. It was used like 'Rev.' and had no
knighthood implications.
As we woudn't use 'sir' in that sense now, it's probably best not to repeat
it in a modern context. Of course, if Cuthbert was truly a knight, then I
doff my cap to him in apology.
Chris
http://www.rumbutter.com
('The Cumbrian Ancestry of President Richard Nixon' just released today)
Have you seen the account of Sir Cuthbert Ogle, clerk, on pp. 191-193 of
Sir
Henry A. Ogle's Ogle and Bothal: or A History of the Baronies of Ogle,
Bothal, and Hepple... (Newcastle-upon-Tyne, 1902)? This will probably add
a lot
to your knowledge of him if you haven't already seen it.
Ah, this may be an example of a misplaced 'sir'.
I don't know whether Cuthbert Ogle was a knight (but I rather imagine not).
The courtesy of 'sir' was commonly given to clergymen in northern England up
to at least the seventeenth century. It was used like 'Rev.' and had no
knighthood implications.
As we woudn't use 'sir' in that sense now, it's probably best not to repeat
it in a modern context. Of course, if Cuthbert was truly a knight, then I
doff my cap to him in apology.
Chris
http://www.rumbutter.com
('The Cumbrian Ancestry of President Richard Nixon' just released today)
-
John Brandon
Re: Cuthbert Ogle, Rector 1475 to 1546
http://www.rumbutter.com
('The Cumbrian Ancestry of President Richard Nixon' just released today)
Maybe you wouldn't mind saying a little about the Dickinson ancestry of
Mr. Nixon--is this new, by any chance? Any gentry lines?
-
Chris Dickinson
Nixon (was: Re: Cuthbert Ogle, Rector 1475 to 1546)
John Brandon wrote in reply to me:
Thanks, John, for your interest. This is new research.
President Nixon was descended from a Quaker immigrant to America from
Ireland, Joseph Dickinson. This has been known for a long time. Dickinson
researchers, going back to Gilbert Cope, knew that Joseph was the son of
Daniel Dickinson and Elizabeth Scott, and that Daniel was born in 1674, son
of Daniel and Mary Dickinson of 'Sampel' in Cumberland.
But there researchers got stuck.
Some of the cleverer of them worked out that Elizabeth Scott was the
granddaughter of Cuthbert Scott, who lived in Caldbeck in Cumberland; but
'Sampel' drew a blank.
A few years back I wrote a small article in the Quaker Family History
magazine showing that 'Sampel' was actually the parish of Lamplugh in
Cumberland - not a difficult thing for me to work out, as my family came
from there too. But there I got stuck.
There were two problems. One was that the parish registers have a big gap
from 1660 up to the 1680s and the local Friends' register at Pardshaw is
also missing many potential entries. The other problem was that Dickinson is
a very common surname in the manor and parish of Lamplugh, occupying ten
separate tenements in the seventeenth century.
Daniel and Mary were simply not obvious in the BMD registers. However, I've
read just about everything there is to read on seventeenth-century Lamplugh,
and I found them mentioned in a local will. That's enabled me to push this
line back three further generations to the sixteenth century. The research
path is quite tortuous - so the main eBook is lengthy!
There isn't what I think you would call a 'gentry' line, though local yeoman
families did intermarry with local gentry like Lamplugh, Patrickson and
Crakeplace - so there may well be some gentry genes even if not historically
provable ones! One of the families in this general kinship group (not
discussed in the eBook, but I mention it here as I think it's an interest of
yours) are the Grindal/Woodhall lot who had Winthrop Fleet connections.
There are two connections from this line that might interest
American researchers.
A daughter of the family married a Quaker Taylor, and their son emigrated to
Great Choptank in Maryland. So connections to the main families there.
The other is that Nixon is descended from the Towerson clan. They go way
back in the area. One of Nixon's forebears was living at Sellafield (yes,
the radioactive leaky one) - and the Towersons owned Calder Hall next door.
One member of this family was William Towerson, the Elizabethan adventurer
(DNB) and another was Gabriel Towerson (DNB), executed by the Dutch at
Amboyna in 1623.
Sorry to go on at length, especially as this isn't medieval (well, the
Towersons do claim to have saved the life of a daughter of Thomas de Multon
in c1320 - which, I fear, is Victorian romanticism!), but you did ask
Chris
http://www.rumbutter.com
http://www.rumbutter.com
('The Cumbrian Ancestry of President Richard Nixon' just released today)
Maybe you wouldn't mind saying a little about the Dickinson ancestry of
Mr. Nixon--is this new, by any chance? Any gentry lines?
Thanks, John, for your interest. This is new research.
President Nixon was descended from a Quaker immigrant to America from
Ireland, Joseph Dickinson. This has been known for a long time. Dickinson
researchers, going back to Gilbert Cope, knew that Joseph was the son of
Daniel Dickinson and Elizabeth Scott, and that Daniel was born in 1674, son
of Daniel and Mary Dickinson of 'Sampel' in Cumberland.
But there researchers got stuck.
Some of the cleverer of them worked out that Elizabeth Scott was the
granddaughter of Cuthbert Scott, who lived in Caldbeck in Cumberland; but
'Sampel' drew a blank.
A few years back I wrote a small article in the Quaker Family History
magazine showing that 'Sampel' was actually the parish of Lamplugh in
Cumberland - not a difficult thing for me to work out, as my family came
from there too. But there I got stuck.
There were two problems. One was that the parish registers have a big gap
from 1660 up to the 1680s and the local Friends' register at Pardshaw is
also missing many potential entries. The other problem was that Dickinson is
a very common surname in the manor and parish of Lamplugh, occupying ten
separate tenements in the seventeenth century.
Daniel and Mary were simply not obvious in the BMD registers. However, I've
read just about everything there is to read on seventeenth-century Lamplugh,
and I found them mentioned in a local will. That's enabled me to push this
line back three further generations to the sixteenth century. The research
path is quite tortuous - so the main eBook is lengthy!
There isn't what I think you would call a 'gentry' line, though local yeoman
families did intermarry with local gentry like Lamplugh, Patrickson and
Crakeplace - so there may well be some gentry genes even if not historically
provable ones! One of the families in this general kinship group (not
discussed in the eBook, but I mention it here as I think it's an interest of
yours) are the Grindal/Woodhall lot who had Winthrop Fleet connections.
There are two connections from this line that might interest
American researchers.
A daughter of the family married a Quaker Taylor, and their son emigrated to
Great Choptank in Maryland. So connections to the main families there.
The other is that Nixon is descended from the Towerson clan. They go way
back in the area. One of Nixon's forebears was living at Sellafield (yes,
the radioactive leaky one) - and the Towersons owned Calder Hall next door.
One member of this family was William Towerson, the Elizabethan adventurer
(DNB) and another was Gabriel Towerson (DNB), executed by the Dutch at
Amboyna in 1623.
Sorry to go on at length, especially as this isn't medieval (well, the
Towersons do claim to have saved the life of a daughter of Thomas de Multon
in c1320 - which, I fear, is Victorian romanticism!), but you did ask
Chris
http://www.rumbutter.com
-
John Brandon
Re: Nixon (was: Re: Cuthbert Ogle, Rector 1475 to 1546)
Chris Dickinson wrote:
Thanks, very kind of you (and interesting too). This will definitely
be 'of interest' to folks who trace Presidential connections ...
Sorry to go on at length, especially as this isn't medieval (well, the
Towersons do claim to have saved the life of a daughter of Thomas de Multon
in c1320 - which, I fear, is Victorian romanticism!), but you did ask
Thanks, very kind of you (and interesting too). This will definitely
be 'of interest' to folks who trace Presidential connections ...