Fw: Can anyone translate from Spanish?

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Manoel Cesar Furtado

Fw: Can anyone translate from Spanish?

Legg inn av Manoel Cesar Furtado » 23 sep 2005 18:49:01

Criolla, in case, is indicating that the great-grandmother is a half-breed
person, of mixed blood, with european and indian (the aboriginal race of
Argentina and South America) ancestry.

Manoel

----- Original Message -----
From: "Leo van de Pas" <leovdpas@netspeed.com.au
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 3:04 AM
Subject: Re: Can anyone translate from Spanish?


My quote is very basic, it only gives the names of this person, born and
died in Buenos Aires and "una bisabuela criolla", descendant of Afonso
III, King of Portugal. this is all I have. I have the names of the
parents and four grandparents, all from Buenos Aires. The paternal
grandfather also has interesting additions "el Capitan de Granaderos" and
"guerrero de la Independencia", he lived from 1809 to 1887. And I do have
a line to Afonso III.

I thought that Creole only applied to people from the West Indies, not
South America,
I understand Josephine de Beauharnais was a Creole because she was born
in the West Indies but did not have a coloured ancestry.

Could bisabuela mean quarter, one-eight "criolla" whatever criolla is
indicating?
Many thanks
Leo van de Pas

----- Original Message -----
From: "Todd A. Farmerie" <farmerie@interfold.com
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 3:33 PM
Subject: Re: Can anyone translate from Spanish?


Leo van de Pas wrote:
Often you cannot translate expressions directly, what does "una
bisbuela criolla" mean?
Immeditaly with this remark is given "descendant of Afonso III, King of
Portugal 1210-1279" and this is in regards to someone who lived in the
20th century.

Could you provide a bit more context? Bisbuela should probably be
bisabuela, i.e. greatgrandmother (or more generally, ancestress), while
criolla is an adjective meaning either Creole or Latin American. It is
not immediately obvious why the two would be found adjacent, and if it
is idiomatic, I would not recognize it, but perhaps a longer quote would
clarify.

taf




Gjest

Re: Fw: Can anyone translate from Spanish?

Legg inn av Gjest » 24 sep 2005 04:25:27

"Manoel Cesar Furtado" wrote:
Criolla, in case, is indicating that the great-grandmother is a half-breed
person, of mixed blood, with european and indian (the aboriginal race of
Argentina and South America) ancestry.

Manoel

Actually it depends on the time period and the context. In the Spanish
colonies of North, Meso and South America, the term "criollo/a" was
applied to individuals who were "purely" Spanish (which, of course, was
not particularly pure anything) but who were born in the Americas. They
were the children of the Peninsulares, Spaniards born in Spain, but
were of lesser status because of their "American" birth. It is only in
recent times and only in certain areas (such as the Southeastern USA
and the West Indies) that the term has come to mean "mixed". The names
for Spanish colonial mixed-race people were: Mulatto (Spanish +
African), Mestizo (Indigenous American + Spanish), and Zambo (African +
Indigenous American). Within each category there were yet smaller
categories. Even so, the system was more flexible than the British
racial categories in that a person of color could buy higher status,
equal roughly to that of Criollo. In the US Southwest and California,
the price was 500 reales. Best, Bronwen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Leo van de Pas" <leovdpas@netspeed.com.au
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 3:04 AM
Subject: Re: Can anyone translate from Spanish?


My quote is very basic, it only gives the names of this person, born and
died in Buenos Aires and "una bisabuela criolla", descendant of Afonso
III, King of Portugal. this is all I have. I have the names of the
parents and four grandparents, all from Buenos Aires. The paternal
grandfather also has interesting additions "el Capitan de Granaderos" and
"guerrero de la Independencia", he lived from 1809 to 1887. And I do have
a line to Afonso III.

I thought that Creole only applied to people from the West Indies, not
South America,
I understand Josephine de Beauharnais was a Creole because she was born
in the West Indies but did not have a coloured ancestry.

Could bisabuela mean quarter, one-eight "criolla" whatever criolla is
indicating?
Many thanks
Leo van de Pas

----- Original Message -----
From: "Todd A. Farmerie" <farmerie@interfold.com
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 3:33 PM
Subject: Re: Can anyone translate from Spanish?


Leo van de Pas wrote:
Often you cannot translate expressions directly, what does "una
bisbuela criolla" mean?
Immeditaly with this remark is given "descendant of Afonso III, King of
Portugal 1210-1279" and this is in regards to someone who lived in the
20th century.

Could you provide a bit more context? Bisbuela should probably be
bisabuela, i.e. greatgrandmother (or more generally, ancestress), while
criolla is an adjective meaning either Creole or Latin American. It is
not immediately obvious why the two would be found adjacent, and if it
is idiomatic, I would not recognize it, but perhaps a longer quote would
clarify.

taf




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