Dr. Warlop is his book on the Flemish nobility mentions a Gilbert van Ghent, after 1066 Lord of Folkingham. "About him and his descendants in England, see e.g. Duchesne : Guines p.148 and Pr., pp 243-244."
In Burke's Peerage 1999, page 701, the Earls of Crawford and Balcarres family is shown to have started with Sir Walter de Lindissi of Lind(e)say, almost certainly 3rd son of Gilbert de Ghent.
Does anyone have access to Duchesne to see what is recorded there? If this link is correct then the Lindsay Earls of Crawford and Earls of Lindsay's lineage goes back to before the year 1000.
These early ancestors of the Lindsays are ancestors of at least the following Gateway Ancestors
Robert Livingston, Robert Cunyngham, Thomas Gordon, James Cuthbert, John Graham, James Graham, John Forbes, Thomas Hamilton, Alexander Falconer, Rev. Robert Rose, Katherine Oliphant, Archibald Dunlop, David Haldane, Donald Macgregor otherwise Drummond, Colin Campbell, James Boyd
as well as of Doug McDonald, John Ravilious, Andrew MacEwen, Kelsey Williams and Peter de Loriol.
Hope someone can help.
Many thanks
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia
Flemish question
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Chris Phillips
Re: Flemish question
Leo van de Pas wrote:
England, see e.g. Duchesne : Guines p.148 and Pr., pp 243-244."
almost certainly 3rd son of Gilbert de Ghent.
lineage goes back to before the year 1000.
I don't know what Duchesne says, but Keats-Rohan (DP 210 and DD 472) has
entries for Gilbert de Gand and his son and successor Walter. I can't see
anything there to indicate a connection with Walter de Lindsey, the ancestor
of the earls of Crawford.
I don't know what the current thinking is on the origins of the Scottish
family. The FMG has among its scanned sources available to registered users,
a paper from 1896 in which Sir George Sitwell suggests a possible origin as
a younger son of the family of the Domesday tenant Baldric de Lindsey (named
from the district of Lincolnshire), though he seems to provide no indication
of this beyond the name. Alternatively, Keats-Rohan (DD 550, 551) has some
entries for a Lindsey family who held a manor of that name as tenants of the
abbey of Bury St Edmunds in the 12th century.
Chris Phillips
Dr. Warlop is his book on the Flemish nobility mentions a Gilbert van
Ghent, after 1066 Lord of Folkingham. "About him and his descendants in
England, see e.g. Duchesne : Guines p.148 and Pr., pp 243-244."
In Burke's Peerage 1999, page 701, the Earls of Crawford and Balcarres
family is shown to have started with Sir Walter de Lindissi of Lind(e)say,
almost certainly 3rd son of Gilbert de Ghent.
Does anyone have access to Duchesne to see what is recorded there? If this
link is correct then the Lindsay Earls of Crawford and Earls of Lindsay's
lineage goes back to before the year 1000.
I don't know what Duchesne says, but Keats-Rohan (DP 210 and DD 472) has
entries for Gilbert de Gand and his son and successor Walter. I can't see
anything there to indicate a connection with Walter de Lindsey, the ancestor
of the earls of Crawford.
I don't know what the current thinking is on the origins of the Scottish
family. The FMG has among its scanned sources available to registered users,
a paper from 1896 in which Sir George Sitwell suggests a possible origin as
a younger son of the family of the Domesday tenant Baldric de Lindsey (named
from the district of Lincolnshire), though he seems to provide no indication
of this beyond the name. Alternatively, Keats-Rohan (DD 550, 551) has some
entries for a Lindsey family who held a manor of that name as tenants of the
abbey of Bury St Edmunds in the 12th century.
Chris Phillips
-
Peter Stewart
Re: Flemish question
"Chris Phillips" <cgp@medievalgenealogy.org.uk> wrote in message
news:dgonob$anj$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
As far as I know Sitwell's suggestion has not persuaded genealogists & the
origin of the Lindsays has not been traced beyond Walter who was living ca
1140s, usually called the first laird of Crawford.
Apart from this matter, it's a pity that Sir George didn't leave more of a
mark on medieval genealogy - for such an unforgettable, cranky & hilarious
character, his writings are surprising only for how dull they are.
Du Chesne simply traced the line of the lords of Folkingham, giving a
sketchy account of some members of this family. Gilbert de Gand was given
only one son, his heir Walter who in turn had two sons, another Gilbert
(lord of Folkinham) and Robert, chancellor of England. There is no link to
the Scottish family of Lindsay, no mention of them at all. By the way, the
name Gilbert did not appear amongst them.
Peter Stewart
news:dgonob$anj$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
Leo van de Pas wrote:
Dr. Warlop is his book on the Flemish nobility mentions a Gilbert van
Ghent, after 1066 Lord of Folkingham. "About him and his descendants in
England, see e.g. Duchesne : Guines p.148 and Pr., pp 243-244."
In Burke's Peerage 1999, page 701, the Earls of Crawford and Balcarres
family is shown to have started with Sir Walter de Lindissi of Lind(e)say,
almost certainly 3rd son of Gilbert de Ghent.
Does anyone have access to Duchesne to see what is recorded there? If
this
link is correct then the Lindsay Earls of Crawford and Earls of Lindsay's
lineage goes back to before the year 1000.
I don't know what Duchesne says, but Keats-Rohan (DP 210 and DD 472) has
entries for Gilbert de Gand and his son and successor Walter. I can't see
anything there to indicate a connection with Walter de Lindsey, the
ancestor
of the earls of Crawford.
I don't know what the current thinking is on the origins of the Scottish
family. The FMG has among its scanned sources available to registered
users,
a paper from 1896 in which Sir George Sitwell suggests a possible origin
as
a younger son of the family of the Domesday tenant Baldric de Lindsey
(named
from the district of Lincolnshire), though he seems to provide no
indication
of this beyond the name. Alternatively, Keats-Rohan (DD 550, 551) has some
entries for a Lindsey family who held a manor of that name as tenants of
the
abbey of Bury St Edmunds in the 12th century.
As far as I know Sitwell's suggestion has not persuaded genealogists & the
origin of the Lindsays has not been traced beyond Walter who was living ca
1140s, usually called the first laird of Crawford.
Apart from this matter, it's a pity that Sir George didn't leave more of a
mark on medieval genealogy - for such an unforgettable, cranky & hilarious
character, his writings are surprising only for how dull they are.
Du Chesne simply traced the line of the lords of Folkingham, giving a
sketchy account of some members of this family. Gilbert de Gand was given
only one son, his heir Walter who in turn had two sons, another Gilbert
(lord of Folkinham) and Robert, chancellor of England. There is no link to
the Scottish family of Lindsay, no mention of them at all. By the way, the
name Gilbert did not appear amongst them.
Peter Stewart
-
Leo van de Pas
Re: Flemish question
There are a few people who were hoping this line would hold, but it is not
to be. Still I think the Lindsay family is a pretty historic family.
Many thanks.
Leo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Phillips" <cgp@medievalgenealogy.org.uk>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 8:19 PM
Subject: Re: Flemish question
to be. Still I think the Lindsay family is a pretty historic family.
Many thanks.
Leo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Phillips" <cgp@medievalgenealogy.org.uk>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 8:19 PM
Subject: Re: Flemish question
Leo van de Pas wrote:
Dr. Warlop is his book on the Flemish nobility mentions a Gilbert van
Ghent, after 1066 Lord of Folkingham. "About him and his descendants in
England, see e.g. Duchesne : Guines p.148 and Pr., pp 243-244."
In Burke's Peerage 1999, page 701, the Earls of Crawford and Balcarres
family is shown to have started with Sir Walter de Lindissi of Lind(e)say,
almost certainly 3rd son of Gilbert de Ghent.
Does anyone have access to Duchesne to see what is recorded there? If
this
link is correct then the Lindsay Earls of Crawford and Earls of Lindsay's
lineage goes back to before the year 1000.
I don't know what Duchesne says, but Keats-Rohan (DP 210 and DD 472) has
entries for Gilbert de Gand and his son and successor Walter. I can't see
anything there to indicate a connection with Walter de Lindsey, the
ancestor
of the earls of Crawford.
I don't know what the current thinking is on the origins of the Scottish
family. The FMG has among its scanned sources available to registered
users,
a paper from 1896 in which Sir George Sitwell suggests a possible origin
as
a younger son of the family of the Domesday tenant Baldric de Lindsey
(named
from the district of Lincolnshire), though he seems to provide no
indication
of this beyond the name. Alternatively, Keats-Rohan (DD 550, 551) has some
entries for a Lindsey family who held a manor of that name as tenants of
the
abbey of Bury St Edmunds in the 12th century.
Chris Phillips
-
Gjest
Re: Flemish question
Dear Leo,
"Histoire généalogique des maisons de Guines, d'Ardres, de Gand, et
de Coucy, et de quelques autres familles illustres qui y ont été
alliées : le tout illustré par chartes de diverses églises, tiltres,
histoires anciennes et autres bonnes preuves" is now available both
online and offline at "Gallica" fond of The National Library of
France.
The correct link is
http://visualiseur.bnf.fr/Visualiseur?D ... NUMM-57887
You may also consult p.148 of this book here
http://visualiseur.bnf.fr/StatutConsult ... 87&ie=.pdf
Greetings from Estonia
"Leo van de Pas" пиÑ
"Histoire généalogique des maisons de Guines, d'Ardres, de Gand, et
de Coucy, et de quelques autres familles illustres qui y ont été
alliées : le tout illustré par chartes de diverses églises, tiltres,
histoires anciennes et autres bonnes preuves" is now available both
online and offline at "Gallica" fond of The National Library of
France.
The correct link is
http://visualiseur.bnf.fr/Visualiseur?D ... NUMM-57887
You may also consult p.148 of this book here
http://visualiseur.bnf.fr/StatutConsult ... 87&ie=.pdf
Greetings from Estonia
"Leo van de Pas" пиÑ