CP Corrections John Bermingham earl of Louth (d 1329)
CP originally gave the wife of John Bermingham's (earl of Louth, d 1329)
wife as Aveline, da. of Richard (DE BURGH), 2nd EARL OF ULSTER. The Ulster page
was corrected by Vol XIV where his wife is said to be possibly daughter of
Arnoul III, Count of Guisnes [the ref to this correction is an article in the
Geneal Mag., vol 20, 1982 pp 335-40, which I have not seen] Below is the
entry from Chris Philips page extends this correction to the Earl of Louth.
I have come across and extract from Knox’s “History of County Mayo in which
it is stated that by 1325, a Fromund Le Brun and Nesta his wife, had
transferred the manor of Carra to John, de Bermingham, and as such another
possibility is that John Bermingham had married a daughter of Fromund and Nesta (or
perhaps dau of Nesta by her first marriage to Simon de Flatisbury - see below)
This article then goes on to mention lands called Levally ne Tavese. This
is perhaps the same as in "Sir John DE BURGH, of _Lanvaley_" in CP's original
claim, but what the significance of this is, I have not worked out
By the way an unreliable source (O'Harts Irish Pedigrees Vol. 2 page 74)
mentions a Fromond le Brun as Chancellor of Ireland in 1230, 1259, and 1272,
perhaps connected to the above.
Corrections to CP on Chris Philips web pages
LOUTH
Volume 8, page 170:
He [John de Bermingham, earl of Louth (d. 1329)] m. between June 1308 and
Oct. 1320, Aveline, da. of Richard (DE BURGH), 2nd EARL OF ULSTER [I.], by
Margaret, da. of Sir John DE BURGH, of Lanvaley.
In a correction of volume 12, part 2, p.176 (Ulster) in volume 14, the
identification of Margaret as a daughter of Sir John de Burgh is removed, and
instead she is said to be "possibly daughter of Arnoul III, Count of Guisnes, by
Alice, daughter of Enguerrand III, Lord of Coucy".
{From Knox’s “History of County Mayoâ€
CP Corrections John Bermingham earl of Louth (d 1329)
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Gjest
Re: CP Corrections John Bermingham earl of Louth (d 1329)
In a message dated 9/18/05 6:41:34 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
ADRIANCHANNING@aol.com writes:
<< CP Corrections John Bermingham earl of Louth (d 1329)
CP originally gave the wife of John Bermingham's (earl of Louth, d 1329) as
Aveline, da. of Richard (DE BURGH), 2nd EARL OF ULSTER. The Ulster page was
corrected by Vol XIV where his wife is said to be possibly daughter of Arnoul
III, Count of Guisnes [the ref to this correction is an article in the Geneal
Mag., vol 20, 1982 pp 335-40, which I have not seen] Below is the entry from
Chris Philips page extends this correction to the Earl of Louth.
<snip>
Corrections to CP on Chris Philips web pages
LOUTH Volume 8, page 170:
He [John de Bermingham, earl of Louth (d. 1329)] m. between June 1308 and
Oct. 1320, Aveline, da. of Richard (DE BURGH), 2nd EARL OF ULSTER [I.], by
Margaret, da. of Sir John DE BURGH, of Lanvaley.
In a correction of volume 12, part 2, p.176 (Ulster) in volume 14, the
identification of Margaret as a daughter of Sir John de Burgh is removed, and
instead she is said to be "possibly daughter of Arnoul III, Count of Guisnes, by
Alice, daughter of Enguerrand III, Lord of Coucy". >>
I'm confused by this. It appears to me that you are saying
1) CP originally gave the wife of John, Earl of Louth as Aveline dau of
Richard, 2nd Earl of Ulster and instead his wife should be dau of Arnoul , Count of
Guisnes.
2) Louth volume 8 states he married Aveline dau of Richard, 2nd Earl of Ulster
3) CP volume 12, says that MARGARET was the dau of Arnoul, Count of Guisnes.
In your first paragraph did you mean to say that it was Aveline's MOTHER
whose parentage was incorrect?
Thanks
Will Johnson
ADRIANCHANNING@aol.com writes:
<< CP Corrections John Bermingham earl of Louth (d 1329)
CP originally gave the wife of John Bermingham's (earl of Louth, d 1329) as
Aveline, da. of Richard (DE BURGH), 2nd EARL OF ULSTER. The Ulster page was
corrected by Vol XIV where his wife is said to be possibly daughter of Arnoul
III, Count of Guisnes [the ref to this correction is an article in the Geneal
Mag., vol 20, 1982 pp 335-40, which I have not seen] Below is the entry from
Chris Philips page extends this correction to the Earl of Louth.
<snip>
Corrections to CP on Chris Philips web pages
LOUTH Volume 8, page 170:
He [John de Bermingham, earl of Louth (d. 1329)] m. between June 1308 and
Oct. 1320, Aveline, da. of Richard (DE BURGH), 2nd EARL OF ULSTER [I.], by
Margaret, da. of Sir John DE BURGH, of Lanvaley.
In a correction of volume 12, part 2, p.176 (Ulster) in volume 14, the
identification of Margaret as a daughter of Sir John de Burgh is removed, and
instead she is said to be "possibly daughter of Arnoul III, Count of Guisnes, by
Alice, daughter of Enguerrand III, Lord of Coucy". >>
I'm confused by this. It appears to me that you are saying
1) CP originally gave the wife of John, Earl of Louth as Aveline dau of
Richard, 2nd Earl of Ulster and instead his wife should be dau of Arnoul , Count of
Guisnes.
2) Louth volume 8 states he married Aveline dau of Richard, 2nd Earl of Ulster
3) CP volume 12, says that MARGARET was the dau of Arnoul, Count of Guisnes.
In your first paragraph did you mean to say that it was Aveline's MOTHER
whose parentage was incorrect?
Thanks
Will Johnson
-
Gjest
Re: CP Corrections John Bermingham earl of Louth (d 1329)
In a message dated 19/09/2005 21:13:32 GMT Standard Time, WJhonson@aol.com
writes:
In a message dated 9/18/05 6:41:34 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
ADRIANCHANNING@aol.com writes:
<< CP Corrections John Bermingham earl of Louth (d 1329)
CP originally gave the wife of John Bermingham's (earl of Louth, d 1329) as
Aveline, da. of Richard (DE BURGH), 2nd EARL OF ULSTER. The Ulster page was
corrected by Vol XIV where his wife is said to be possibly daughter of
Arnoul
III, Count of Guisnes [the ref to this correction is an article in the Ge
neal
Mag., vol 20, 1982 pp 335-40, which I have not seen] Below is the entry
from
Chris Philips page extends this correction to the Earl of Louth.
<snip>
Corrections to CP on Chris Philips web pages
LOUTH Volume 8, page 170:
He [John de Bermingham, earl of Louth (d. 1329)] m. between June 1308 and
Oct. 1320, Aveline, da. of Richard (DE BURGH), 2nd EARL OF ULSTER [I.], by
Margaret, da. of Sir John DE BURGH, of Lanvaley.
In a correction of volume 12, part 2, p.176 (Ulster) in volume 14, the
identification of Margaret as a daughter of Sir John de Burgh is removed,
and
instead she is said to be "possibly daughter of Arnoul III, Count of
Guisnes, by
Alice, daughter of Enguerrand III, Lord of Coucy". >>
I'm confused by this. It appears to me that you are saying
1) CP originally gave the wife of John, Earl of Louth as Aveline dau of
Richard, 2nd Earl of Ulster and instead his wife should be dau of Arnoul ,
Count of
Guisnes.
2) Louth volume 8 states he married Aveline dau of Richard, 2nd Earl of
Ulster
3) CP volume 12, says that MARGARET was the dau of Arnoul, Count of Guisnes.
In your first paragraph did you mean to say that it was Aveline's MOTHER
whose parentage was incorrect?
Thanks
Will Johnson
Sorry, yes that is what I meant to say.
Adrian
writes:
In a message dated 9/18/05 6:41:34 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
ADRIANCHANNING@aol.com writes:
<< CP Corrections John Bermingham earl of Louth (d 1329)
CP originally gave the wife of John Bermingham's (earl of Louth, d 1329) as
Aveline, da. of Richard (DE BURGH), 2nd EARL OF ULSTER. The Ulster page was
corrected by Vol XIV where his wife is said to be possibly daughter of
Arnoul
III, Count of Guisnes [the ref to this correction is an article in the Ge
neal
Mag., vol 20, 1982 pp 335-40, which I have not seen] Below is the entry
from
Chris Philips page extends this correction to the Earl of Louth.
<snip>
Corrections to CP on Chris Philips web pages
LOUTH Volume 8, page 170:
He [John de Bermingham, earl of Louth (d. 1329)] m. between June 1308 and
Oct. 1320, Aveline, da. of Richard (DE BURGH), 2nd EARL OF ULSTER [I.], by
Margaret, da. of Sir John DE BURGH, of Lanvaley.
In a correction of volume 12, part 2, p.176 (Ulster) in volume 14, the
identification of Margaret as a daughter of Sir John de Burgh is removed,
and
instead she is said to be "possibly daughter of Arnoul III, Count of
Guisnes, by
Alice, daughter of Enguerrand III, Lord of Coucy". >>
I'm confused by this. It appears to me that you are saying
1) CP originally gave the wife of John, Earl of Louth as Aveline dau of
Richard, 2nd Earl of Ulster and instead his wife should be dau of Arnoul ,
Count of
Guisnes.
2) Louth volume 8 states he married Aveline dau of Richard, 2nd Earl of
Ulster
3) CP volume 12, says that MARGARET was the dau of Arnoul, Count of Guisnes.
In your first paragraph did you mean to say that it was Aveline's MOTHER
whose parentage was incorrect?
Thanks
Will Johnson
Sorry, yes that is what I meant to say.
Adrian