Fw: GEN-Medieval site

Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper

Svar
Leo van de Pas

Fw: GEN-Medieval site

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 17 sep 2005 16:36:01

I received a request (left at the bottom but without identifiers). Apparently several people are wondering what is going on and why. I have tried to explain, but am certain a lot more could or should be said. But I hope it is at least an attempt at explaining the situation.

My reply to this person is:


It is in my opinion a tragedy. It could be so different and so much better. Lets mention Spencer Hines first. He is a strange person who, years ago, produced a few superb ancestor lists. Then we had someone on the group for while who milked the site for a genealogical magazine he produced.
Ever since Hines's only contribution is bickering and belittling. He regards people as either friends or enemies, if you are a friend of a friend he won't say anything, but if he perceives you to be an enemy of his friend, well, then you are fair game. He cannot admit error and is very stubborn.

For quite a while now I have been asking questions on gen-med on behalf of other people, as they feared (mainly Hines's) sarcastic remarks directed at new people. For a long time I defended Hines saying people should look at what he says, not how. Lately he has not been saying much, except bickering and attacking.

But now the problem. I do not know how long you have been visiting gen-med, but Douglas Richardson started attending gen-med (a guess) about three to three-and-a half years ago, maybe more. Fairly soon it became obvious why. He started advertising his book, even though asked not to, as we are not supposed to advertise wares or services. Most of his messages were geared towards his book and invited people to buy it before publication day and they would get it cheaper. This was done regularly (guess) for about two years. After a considerable while even one (elderly) person asked whether she could expect to get the book before she died.

If only his behaviour was different, most would gladly have helped him with the common goal of a better genealogical book. Apparently lots of (needed) acknowledgements never made it into his book. This still would not be so serious, if only for his behaviour and scholarship (or lack thereof).

He has incredible double standards, he expected people to answer all his questions and supply sources, a reply without a source was not a reply. In return he does in general not answer questions directed at him. Often his replies are counter-questions or attacks.

He used gen-med to verify his data, if only he did this in a honest fashion but he did not. He would pretend to have found something new and then stood by waiting for it to be disected. He wants others to do the hard work for him. In the archives are several of such debacles. One (not started by him) was about Amy de Gaveston. And his opinions were interesting to say the least.

He pretends to know medieval Latin well enough to be able to use medieval records, but then misrepresents them because he does not understand. And he cannot cope with being corrected.

As a result over the years several people have tried first to help him, but when that was not appreciated, they tried to expose his many shortcomings. This caused Richardson's vendetta against Peter Stewart. First Peter Stewart was really Spencer Hines. Then, was Peter Stewart Peter Stewart? and on and on and on goes his attacks on Peter Stewart. He even gave indications, blatant ones, he thought Peter Stewart just had to be homosexual. But then someone spoke up about Richardson to have been brawling in a gay place himself. To show he had support he conjured up Urian N Owen, "an Englishman" who first lived in Turkey and then he didn't and then suddenly owned property there for 20 years. First the Turks didn't know him and then he suddenly was regarded as a local.

Over the years I have asked Richardson several times to apologise for his behaviour (towards me). He apologised once. Then I made my website public and not so long ago he had great fun exposing "bloopers" on my website. Then for a while he was away and when he came back he announced that Peter Stewart, Tim Powys-Lybbe and myself had been fighting with everyone all the time he was away, and he felt so sorry for all the people involved. As I do help people on and more so off list, I do not appreciate such tags.

Asking to provide evidence has been ignored, but it should be easy enough as "all those fights" should be available in the archives of gen-med. Then suddenly he apologised _to my website_ for having used the term bloopers. Apologising for falsely accusing Peter Stewart, Tim Powys-Lybbe and myself was just too much to expect.

When his book "Plantagenet Ancestry" came out he promised a site for corrections and additions. And quite a few people spoke out with corrections and additions. The book came out before June 2004 and still no site has been made by Richardson. And as there was regular criticism about the book, an offer was made by someone else to make this site. Since a short while there is this site and has remarks already for about 100 pages, some entries concern more than one error or addition on a page.

Richardson is dreadfully patronizing "that was a good message" is one of his regular openers. He rubs people up the wrong way and still pretends Gen-Med is his turf, blatantly telling the list owner Todd Farmerie to stick it, as Richardson "knows what is right".

I am sure a lot more can be said, but what is the good? Does Richardson listen? I wonder what his tack will be now after the last revelation by Peter Stewart about the adventures of Uriah Owen in cyberland.

You feel reluctant to contribute, but at least you are still following the group. My question is how many people have given up on gen-med? We used to have more regular contributors from Europe but where are they now? (Is England in Europe? :-) and all of this because of the ego of one man.

With best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia


Dear Leo,
I appreciate your contributions to the General Medieval site, and I congratulate and thank you for your outstanding database, which I often consult.
However, I am puzzled and appalled at some of the astonishing, bitter and insulting criticisms that are directed at contributors to the forum, including against your good self. There must be many like me who are astonished at it and shy away from contributing because of it. I have never come across anything like it on any other site. Can you throw any light on the reasons why there is such appalling bitterness? Is there something in the people concerned I which know nothing about which has brought about this feuding?
I am genuinely puzzled and appalled; I am sure I am not the only one! I love this subject and period but I am put off badly by these awful remarks.

Merilyn Pedrick

Re: Fw: GEN-Medieval site

Legg inn av Merilyn Pedrick » 18 sep 2005 02:27:01

Dear Leo
Thankyou so much for that thougtful and comprehensive explanation of the
flame-wars being engaged in on Gen-Med. I also, had wondered at the Genesis
of it all. The protagonists seem to me to have enormous egos and just don't
know how to shut up. They just must have the last word.
Peter Stewart cannot possibly put into this category with Richardson, Hines
and Brandon etc., as he is justly defending his point of view. And I admire
him for his terrier-like persistence as he battles the forces of darkness!
He is scholarly and thorough and such a boon to this list or newsgroup. I
can't bear to think of anyone of his calibre being so fed up that they would
leave.
And as for you Leo, I want to thank you again for your wonderful Genealogics
website and your generosity in sharing your considerable scholarship and
knowledge with us all.
To those on the list who may quiver at the thought of asking questions or
getting involved, just let me say that if I feel hesitant I comfort myself
with the thought that at least no-one knows my address and is not likely to
come and beat me up!
Merilyn Pedrick

-------Original Message-------

From: Leo van de Pas
Date: 09/18/05 00:05:33
To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Fw: GEN-Medieval site

I received a request (left at the bottom but without identifiers).
Apparently several people are wondering what is going on and why. I have
tried to explain, but am certain a lot more could or should be said. But I
hope it is at least an attempt at explaining the situation.

My reply to this person is:


It is in my opinion a tragedy. It could be so different and so much better.
Lets mention Spencer Hines first. He is a strange person who, years ago,
produced a few superb ancestor lists. Then we had someone on the group for
while who milked the site for a genealogical magazine he produced.
Ever since Hines's only contribution is bickering and belittling. He regards
people as either friends or enemies, if you are a friend of a friend he won
t say anything, but if he perceives you to be an enemy of his friend, well,
then you are fair game. He cannot admit error and is very stubborn.

For quite a while now I have been asking questions on gen-med on behalf of
other people, as they feared (mainly Hines's) sarcastic remarks directed at
new people. For a long time I defended Hines saying people should look at
what he says, not how. Lately he has not been saying much, except bickering
and attacking.

But now the problem. I do not know how long you have been visiting gen-med,
but Douglas Richardson started attending gen-med (a guess) about three to
three-and-a half years ago, maybe more. Fairly soon it became obvious why.
He started advertising his book, even though asked not to, as we are not
supposed to advertise wares or services. Most of his messages were geared
towards his book and invited people to buy it before publication day and
they would get it cheaper. This was done regularly (guess) for about two
years. After a considerable while even one (elderly) person asked whether
she could expect to get the book before she died.

If only his behaviour was different, most would gladly have helped him with
the common goal of a better genealogical book. Apparently lots of (needed)
acknowledgements never made it into his book. This still would not be so
serious, if only for his behaviour and scholarship (or lack thereof).

He has incredible double standards, he expected people to answer all his
questions and supply sources, a reply without a source was not a reply. In
return he does in general not answer questions directed at him. Often his
replies are counter-questions or attacks.

He used gen-med to verify his data, if only he did this in a honest fashion
but he did not. He would pretend to have found something new and then stood
by waiting for it to be disected. He wants others to do the hard work for
him. In the archives are several of such debacles. One (not started by him)
was about Amy de Gaveston. And his opinions were interesting to say the
least.

He pretends to know medieval Latin well enough to be able to use medieval
records, but then misrepresents them because he does not understand. And he
cannot cope with being corrected.

As a result over the years several people have tried first to help him, but
when that was not appreciated, they tried to expose his many shortcomings.
This caused Richardson's vendetta against Peter Stewart. First Peter Stewart
was really Spencer Hines. Then, was Peter Stewart Peter Stewart? and on and
on and on goes his attacks on Peter Stewart. He even gave indications,
blatant ones, he thought Peter Stewart just had to be homosexual. But then
someone spoke up about Richardson to have been brawling in a gay place
himself. To show he had support he conjured up Urian N Owen, "an Englishman"
who first lived in Turkey and then he didn't and then suddenly owned
property there for 20 years. First the Turks didn't know him and then he
suddenly was regarded as a local.

Over the years I have asked Richardson several times to apologise for his
behaviour (towards me). He apologised once. Then I made my website public
and not so long ago he had great fun exposing "bloopers" on my website. Then
for a while he was away and when he came back he announced that Peter
Stewart, Tim Powys-Lybbe and myself had been fighting with everyone all the
time he was away, and he felt so sorry for all the people involved. As I do
help people on and more so off list, I do not appreciate such tags.

Asking to provide evidence has been ignored, but it should be easy enough as
"all those fights" should be available in the archives of gen-med. Then
suddenly he apologised _to my website_ for having used the term bloopers.
Apologising for falsely accusing Peter Stewart, Tim Powys-Lybbe and myself
was just too much to expect.

When his book "Plantagenet Ancestry" came out he promised a site for
corrections and additions. And quite a few people spoke out with corrections
and additions. The book came out before June 2004 and still no site has
been made by Richardson. And as there was regular criticism about the book,
an offer was made by someone else to make this site. Since a short while
there is this site and has remarks already for about 100 pages, some entries
concern more than one error or addition on a page.

Richardson is dreadfully patronizing "that was a good message" is one of his
regular openers. He rubs people up the wrong way and still pretends Gen-Med
is his turf, blatantly telling the list owner Todd Farmerie to stick it, as
Richardson "knows what is right".

I am sure a lot more can be said, but what is the good? Does Richardson
listen? I wonder what his tack will be now after the last revelation by
Peter Stewart about the adventures of Uriah Owen in cyberland.

You feel reluctant to contribute, but at least you are still following the
group. My question is how many people have given up on gen-med? We used to
have more regular contributors from Europe but where are they now? (Is
England in Europe? :-) and all of this because of the ego of one man.

With best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia


Dear Leo,
I appreciate your contributions to the General Medieval site, and I
congratulate and thank you for your outstanding database, which I often
consult.
However, I am puzzled and appalled at some of the astonishing, bitter and
insulting criticisms that are directed at contributors to the forum,
including against your good self. There must be many like me who are
astonished at it and shy away from contributing because of it. I have never
come across anything like it on any other site. Can you throw any light on
the reasons why there is such appalling bitterness? Is there something in
the people concerned I which know nothing about which has brought about this
feuding?
I am genuinely puzzled and appalled; I am sure I am not the only one! I
love this subject and period but I am put off badly by these awful remarks.

Leo van de Pas

Re: Fw: GEN-Medieval site

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 18 sep 2005 03:22:02

Dear Merilyn,

Thanks for speaking out, if only more people would, perhaps, Richardson
would realise what he is doing, or already has done: destroying gen-med.

I have been told by some people they put up with him because of the good
messages he sends. What people, seeing "those good messages" must ask
themselves "which Richardson is sending that message? The altruistic one,
wanting to share? Or the one on a fishing trip, to see what he can get out
of a line of messages." Because of his behaviour I can see these "good
messages" only as a poisoned gift, you do not know why he has send it, what
is in it for him? Too often he makes a stand, which then is demolished by
others. What if people stop monitoring Richardson? Bad genealogy will be
distributed as gospel "because Richardson says so."

I think Richardson has to make a clean slate for gen-med to be of value. You
cannot continue while standing in the manure made by him.

Best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia

----- Original Message -----
From: "Merilyn Pedrick" <pedricks@ozemail.com.au>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2005 10:26 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: GEN-Medieval site


Dear Leo
Thankyou so much for that thougtful and comprehensive explanation of the
flame-wars being engaged in on Gen-Med. I also, had wondered at the
Genesis
of it all. The protagonists seem to me to have enormous egos and just
don't
know how to shut up. They just must have the last word.
Peter Stewart cannot possibly put into this category with Richardson,
Hines
and Brandon etc., as he is justly defending his point of view. And I
admire
him for his terrier-like persistence as he battles the forces of darkness!
He is scholarly and thorough and such a boon to this list or newsgroup. I
can't bear to think of anyone of his calibre being so fed up that they
would
leave.
And as for you Leo, I want to thank you again for your wonderful
Genealogics
website and your generosity in sharing your considerable scholarship and
knowledge with us all.
To those on the list who may quiver at the thought of asking questions or
getting involved, just let me say that if I feel hesitant I comfort myself
with the thought that at least no-one knows my address and is not likely
to
come and beat me up!
Merilyn Pedrick

-------Original Message-------

From: Leo van de Pas
Date: 09/18/05 00:05:33
To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Fw: GEN-Medieval site

I received a request (left at the bottom but without identifiers).
Apparently several people are wondering what is going on and why. I have
tried to explain, but am certain a lot more could or should be said. But I
hope it is at least an attempt at explaining the situation.

My reply to this person is:


It is in my opinion a tragedy. It could be so different and so much
better.
Lets mention Spencer Hines first. He is a strange person who, years ago,
produced a few superb ancestor lists. Then we had someone on the group for
while who milked the site for a genealogical magazine he produced.
Ever since Hines's only contribution is bickering and belittling. He
regards
people as either friends or enemies, if you are a friend of a friend he
won
t say anything, but if he perceives you to be an enemy of his friend,
well,
then you are fair game. He cannot admit error and is very stubborn.

For quite a while now I have been asking questions on gen-med on behalf of
other people, as they feared (mainly Hines's) sarcastic remarks directed
at
new people. For a long time I defended Hines saying people should look at
what he says, not how. Lately he has not been saying much, except
bickering
and attacking.

But now the problem. I do not know how long you have been visiting
gen-med,
but Douglas Richardson started attending gen-med (a guess) about three to
three-and-a half years ago, maybe more. Fairly soon it became obvious why.
He started advertising his book, even though asked not to, as we are not
supposed to advertise wares or services. Most of his messages were geared
towards his book and invited people to buy it before publication day and
they would get it cheaper. This was done regularly (guess) for about two
years. After a considerable while even one (elderly) person asked whether
she could expect to get the book before she died.

If only his behaviour was different, most would gladly have helped him
with
the common goal of a better genealogical book. Apparently lots of (needed)
acknowledgements never made it into his book. This still would not be so
serious, if only for his behaviour and scholarship (or lack thereof).

He has incredible double standards, he expected people to answer all his
questions and supply sources, a reply without a source was not a reply. In
return he does in general not answer questions directed at him. Often his
replies are counter-questions or attacks.

He used gen-med to verify his data, if only he did this in a honest
fashion
but he did not. He would pretend to have found something new and then
stood
by waiting for it to be disected. He wants others to do the hard work for
him. In the archives are several of such debacles. One (not started by
him)
was about Amy de Gaveston. And his opinions were interesting to say the
least.

He pretends to know medieval Latin well enough to be able to use medieval
records, but then misrepresents them because he does not understand. And
he
cannot cope with being corrected.

As a result over the years several people have tried first to help him,
but
when that was not appreciated, they tried to expose his many shortcomings.
This caused Richardson's vendetta against Peter Stewart. First Peter
Stewart
was really Spencer Hines. Then, was Peter Stewart Peter Stewart? and on
and
on and on goes his attacks on Peter Stewart. He even gave indications,
blatant ones, he thought Peter Stewart just had to be homosexual. But then
someone spoke up about Richardson to have been brawling in a gay place
himself. To show he had support he conjured up Urian N Owen, "an
Englishman"
who first lived in Turkey and then he didn't and then suddenly owned
property there for 20 years. First the Turks didn't know him and then he
suddenly was regarded as a local.

Over the years I have asked Richardson several times to apologise for his
behaviour (towards me). He apologised once. Then I made my website public
and not so long ago he had great fun exposing "bloopers" on my website.
Then
for a while he was away and when he came back he announced that Peter
Stewart, Tim Powys-Lybbe and myself had been fighting with everyone all
the
time he was away, and he felt so sorry for all the people involved. As I
do
help people on and more so off list, I do not appreciate such tags.

Asking to provide evidence has been ignored, but it should be easy enough
as
"all those fights" should be available in the archives of gen-med. Then
suddenly he apologised _to my website_ for having used the term bloopers.
Apologising for falsely accusing Peter Stewart, Tim Powys-Lybbe and myself
was just too much to expect.

When his book "Plantagenet Ancestry" came out he promised a site for
corrections and additions. And quite a few people spoke out with
corrections
and additions. The book came out before June 2004 and still no site has
been made by Richardson. And as there was regular criticism about the
book,
an offer was made by someone else to make this site. Since a short while
there is this site and has remarks already for about 100 pages, some
entries
concern more than one error or addition on a page.

Richardson is dreadfully patronizing "that was a good message" is one of
his
regular openers. He rubs people up the wrong way and still pretends
Gen-Med
is his turf, blatantly telling the list owner Todd Farmerie to stick it,
as
Richardson "knows what is right".

I am sure a lot more can be said, but what is the good? Does Richardson
listen? I wonder what his tack will be now after the last revelation by
Peter Stewart about the adventures of Uriah Owen in cyberland.

You feel reluctant to contribute, but at least you are still following the
group. My question is how many people have given up on gen-med? We used to
have more regular contributors from Europe but where are they now? (Is
England in Europe? :-) and all of this because of the ego of one man.

With best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia


Dear Leo,
I appreciate your contributions to the General Medieval site, and I
congratulate and thank you for your outstanding database, which I often
consult.
However, I am puzzled and appalled at some of the astonishing, bitter and
insulting criticisms that are directed at contributors to the forum,
including against your good self. There must be many like me who are
astonished at it and shy away from contributing because of it. I have
never
come across anything like it on any other site. Can you throw any light on
the reasons why there is such appalling bitterness? Is there something in
the people concerned I which know nothing about which has brought about
this
feuding?
I am genuinely puzzled and appalled; I am sure I am not the only one! I
love this subject and period but I am put off badly by these awful
remarks.



Svar

Gå tilbake til «soc.genealogy.medieval»