On Leo's great web site here
http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.ph ... 3&tree=LEO
we see Edward, 4th Lord Grey of Powis
This person just happens (currently) to be at the very edge of my research
interests. We see here that he is given no birth year.
However checking his father John the 3rd Lord we see that he was b abt 1485
and died 14 Apr 1504. This actually gives us a very narrow range of dates into
which Edward could be born, to wit : 1502/5
Provided that we allow his father to be at least 17 years old.
This also means we can put a range on Margaret Sutton.
She had to be at least 13 and we see her father Edward, 2nd Baron Dudley was
b abt 1459. So I would give Margaret a birthrange of 1476/92
The next step would be to try to find any primary documentation that could
narrow Margaret Sutton's birth down even more.
Will Johnson
Update to genealogics: Edward, 4th Lord Grey of Powis
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Leo van de Pas
Re: Update to genealogics: Edward, 4th Lord Grey of Powis
Dear Will,
I think we can shorten the timespan in which Edward was born. Usually they
mention when the heir was born posthumously and this was not done in this
case. To me this means that Edward was born in his father's lifetime, making
it 1502/4.
Hope you agree.
Leo
----- Original Message -----
From: <WJhonson@aol.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2005 7:17 AM
Subject: Update to genealogics: Edward, 4th Lord Grey of Powis
I think we can shorten the timespan in which Edward was born. Usually they
mention when the heir was born posthumously and this was not done in this
case. To me this means that Edward was born in his father's lifetime, making
it 1502/4.
Hope you agree.
Leo
----- Original Message -----
From: <WJhonson@aol.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2005 7:17 AM
Subject: Update to genealogics: Edward, 4th Lord Grey of Powis
On Leo's great web site here
http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.ph ... 3&tree=LEO
we see Edward, 4th Lord Grey of Powis
This person just happens (currently) to be at the very edge of my research
interests. We see here that he is given no birth year.
However checking his father John the 3rd Lord we see that he was b abt
1485
and died 14 Apr 1504. This actually gives us a very narrow range of dates
into
which Edward could be born, to wit : 1502/5
Provided that we allow his father to be at least 17 years old.
This also means we can put a range on Margaret Sutton.
She had to be at least 13 and we see her father Edward, 2nd Baron Dudley
was
b abt 1459. So I would give Margaret a birthrange of 1476/92
The next step would be to try to find any primary documentation that could
narrow Margaret Sutton's birth down even more.
Will Johnson
-
Gjest
Re: Update to genealogics: Edward, 4th Lord Grey of Powis
I have a problem
maybe.
Complete Peerage "Bedford"
states that Bridget Hussey the wife of Francis, 2nd Earl of Bedford was the
daughter of Anne Grey herself dau of George, Earl of Kent. [CP in this section
does not specify off which wife of George.]
Now this must be George Grey, 2nd Earl of Kent who d 16 Dec 1503 and who
married twice per Leo's database. I do not have access to the GREY volume of CP
to check what they say.
Leo's database states that this George was married twice
1) Anne Widville Jun 1480 and she d 30 Jul 1489
2) Katherine Herbert abt 1 Oct 1490
Leo places this Anne off Katherine which would mean Anne could only be b Jun
1491 at the earliest. However he then gives to this Anne a child born in 1505
It's not impossible, other girls have given birth at 13 years old. I just
feel that this should be firmed up with a primary reference.
Will Johnson
Complete Peerage "Bedford"
states that Bridget Hussey the wife of Francis, 2nd Earl of Bedford was the
daughter of Anne Grey herself dau of George, Earl of Kent. [CP in this section
does not specify off which wife of George.]
Now this must be George Grey, 2nd Earl of Kent who d 16 Dec 1503 and who
married twice per Leo's database. I do not have access to the GREY volume of CP
to check what they say.
Leo's database states that this George was married twice
1) Anne Widville Jun 1480 and she d 30 Jul 1489
2) Katherine Herbert abt 1 Oct 1490
Leo places this Anne off Katherine which would mean Anne could only be b Jun
1491 at the earliest. However he then gives to this Anne a child born in 1505
It's not impossible, other girls have given birth at 13 years old. I just
feel that this should be firmed up with a primary reference.
Will Johnson
-
Leo van de Pas
CP error? was Re: Update to genealogics: Edward, 4th Lord Gr
Dear Will,
You need the Kent volume
not Grey 
Volume VII pages 166 and 167 cover this George
No date of birth is given. He was made K.B. in1483 at the Coronation of
Richard III
He married in or after 1483 Anne Widville (sister of Elizabeth) and widow of
Sir William Bourchier. She died 30 July 1489. He married 2ndly on or before
1 October 1490 Catherine Herbert. He died 16 December 1503 at Ampthill.
While looking at this information, another discrepancy emerges. The first
marriage was _in or after_ 1483. However, the son and heir, being only son
by the first wife, was aged 25 and more at his father's death in 1503.This
gives a year of birth of 1478 or before, five years before his parents
married? Not possible.
His mother's first husband Sir William Bourchier died after 12 February
1482/3, which could make the second marriage to have taken place almost
immediately and the son being born December 1482/3 (or after) making him
about 20 when his father died, not 25 and more.
Cahiers de Saint Louis gives the marriage as about 1483 and the birth as ?
ca.1478, expressing doubt but still displaying obvious wrong information.
As far as Anne Grey having a child _in_ 1505, I have about 1505 which
stretches it a bit.
I wanted to know where I got this from and it is not in Cahiers de Saint
Louis and therefor I can only presume that I received it from Robert
O'Connor my other source for this child of Anne. I am sure the links are
correct but the dates are rubbery.
Leo
----- Original Message -----
From: <WJhonson@aol.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2005 7:49 AM
Subject: Re: Update to genealogics: Edward, 4th Lord Grey of Powis
You need the Kent volume
Volume VII pages 166 and 167 cover this George
No date of birth is given. He was made K.B. in1483 at the Coronation of
Richard III
He married in or after 1483 Anne Widville (sister of Elizabeth) and widow of
Sir William Bourchier. She died 30 July 1489. He married 2ndly on or before
1 October 1490 Catherine Herbert. He died 16 December 1503 at Ampthill.
While looking at this information, another discrepancy emerges. The first
marriage was _in or after_ 1483. However, the son and heir, being only son
by the first wife, was aged 25 and more at his father's death in 1503.This
gives a year of birth of 1478 or before, five years before his parents
married? Not possible.
His mother's first husband Sir William Bourchier died after 12 February
1482/3, which could make the second marriage to have taken place almost
immediately and the son being born December 1482/3 (or after) making him
about 20 when his father died, not 25 and more.
Cahiers de Saint Louis gives the marriage as about 1483 and the birth as ?
ca.1478, expressing doubt but still displaying obvious wrong information.
As far as Anne Grey having a child _in_ 1505, I have about 1505 which
stretches it a bit.
I wanted to know where I got this from and it is not in Cahiers de Saint
Louis and therefor I can only presume that I received it from Robert
O'Connor my other source for this child of Anne. I am sure the links are
correct but the dates are rubbery.
Leo
----- Original Message -----
From: <WJhonson@aol.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2005 7:49 AM
Subject: Re: Update to genealogics: Edward, 4th Lord Grey of Powis
I have a problemmaybe.
Complete Peerage "Bedford"
states that Bridget Hussey the wife of Francis, 2nd Earl of Bedford was
the
daughter of Anne Grey herself dau of George, Earl of Kent. [CP in this
section
does not specify off which wife of George.]
Now this must be George Grey, 2nd Earl of Kent who d 16 Dec 1503 and who
married twice per Leo's database. I do not have access to the GREY volume
of CP
to check what they say.
Leo's database states that this George was married twice
1) Anne Widville Jun 1480 and she d 30 Jul 1489
2) Katherine Herbert abt 1 Oct 1490
Leo places this Anne off Katherine which would mean Anne could only be b
Jun
1491 at the earliest. However he then gives to this Anne a child born in
1505
It's not impossible, other girls have given birth at 13 years old. I just
feel that this should be firmed up with a primary reference.
Will Johnson
-
Chris Phillips
Re: Update to genealogics: Edward, 4th Lord Grey of Powis
Will Johnson wrote [on 16 September]:
The CP account of Kent [vii 167, note l] notes that in her will, George's
2nd wife Katherine bequeaths her goods equally between her sons Henry,
George and Anthony, and her daughter Anne. So Leo attributes Anne to the
correct marriage.
However, the 1505 date given by Leo for the birth of a child to Anne seems
to be incorrect. In the CP account of Anne's husband John, Lord Hussey [vii
17], his previous wife, Margaret Blount, is shown to have been still living
in 1509, so Anne's marriage must have been later than this.
Chris Phillips
Complete Peerage "Bedford"
states that Bridget Hussey the wife of Francis, 2nd Earl of Bedford was
the
daughter of Anne Grey herself dau of George, Earl of Kent. [CP in this
section
does not specify off which wife of George.]
Now this must be George Grey, 2nd Earl of Kent who d 16 Dec 1503 and who
married twice per Leo's database. I do not have access to the GREY volume
of CP
to check what they say.
Leo's database states that this George was married twice
1) Anne Widville Jun 1480 and she d 30 Jul 1489
2) Katherine Herbert abt 1 Oct 1490
Leo places this Anne off Katherine which would mean Anne could only be b
Jun
1491 at the earliest. However he then gives to this Anne a child born in
1505
The CP account of Kent [vii 167, note l] notes that in her will, George's
2nd wife Katherine bequeaths her goods equally between her sons Henry,
George and Anthony, and her daughter Anne. So Leo attributes Anne to the
correct marriage.
However, the 1505 date given by Leo for the birth of a child to Anne seems
to be incorrect. In the CP account of Anne's husband John, Lord Hussey [vii
17], his previous wife, Margaret Blount, is shown to have been still living
in 1509, so Anne's marriage must have been later than this.
Chris Phillips