Update to genealogics.org : Edward Herbert of Powis Castle d

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Update to genealogics.org : Edward Herbert of Powis Castle d

Legg inn av Gjest » 14 sep 2005 23:30:02

On Leo's great web site here
http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.ph ... 2&tree=LEO

we see Sir Edward Herbert, of Powis Castle (and his wife Mary Stanley)
son of William Herbert, 1st Earl of Pembroke and his wife Anne Parr
only one son is named, and the other children have no spouses.

I now present a document that although not great, at least proves that one of
the daughters lived to marrying age, and who she married.

Will Johnson
-----------------------------------------
Shropshire Archives: Moseley Collection
Reference Code: 2089
Moseley Collection
Creation dates: c1300-1911
Creator(s): Moseley family of Buildwas, Shropshire

MARRIAGE SETTLEMENTS, MORTGAGES, LEGAL PAPERS
Reference: 2089/4/1/1
Conveyance in trust
Creation dates: 20 August 1578

Scope and Content
1. Sir Edward Herberte of Hendon, co. Mydd.
2. Edward Grey of Byldwas, co. Saloppe'
Before marriage of Edward Grey son of 2. and a dter. of 1., Covenant of 2. to
convey to 1., Henry earl of Pembrok, Robert earl of Leicester, and Sir Robert
Throckmorton, by recovery before 29 September 1578 of barony and lordship of
Powys, the castle of Poole, the boroughs of Poole and llanvyllinge
[Llanfyllin], manors of Powys, Poole, Teirtre, llanerghe hudull [Llannerch-hudol],
Stratemarcell; Kerenyon, Meghen vchcoyd, Meghen Iscoyd, llanvillinge, Moghnante,
Ruerthe [Rhiwarth]. and Garthgelynnyn, etc. in Poole, Buttington, Gylsfield,
llanvrvyll [Llanerfyl], llangadvan, Garthbebyo, Llanvair, Llangunio, Castell'
Cayrynion, Llanvihangell', llanvillinge, llanveghen, llansanfraid, Llanwothyn
[Llanwddyn], Pennant, Hyrnante, llangynocke', llanyerhayder [Llanrhaeadr], Myvod,
etc., co. Mont.; and to levy a fine before 2 Feb. 1578/9 of same.
Covenant of 2. to levy a fine before Easter 1579 to same of manors of
Ponsbury and Charlton, co. Salop; Andever, co. Southampton; Dyppinge, co. Lincoln;
and Droytewiche, co. Worc., wherein Dame Jane, late wife of Lorde Powys, dec'd.,
has a freehold for life.
Detailed declarations of uses and provisoes, including covenant of 2. to
convey property late of abbey of Byldwas (excepting a rent of £13 6s 8d from
Harnedge Grange) to same trustees to hold to use of Edward Grey son and dter. of 1.
Provision for younger sons and dters.
Attached list of current leases of property at castle of Poole [Powis
Castle]. Kereynion [Caereinion], Teirtre, Llanvillinge and llannerchudoll.

Gjest

Re: Update to genealogics.org : Edward Herbert of Powis Cast

Legg inn av Gjest » 14 sep 2005 23:30:03

Will,

I can never work out whether it is you or your evil twin disseminating
these items, but - whoever it is - please keep it up: much appreciated.

MAR

Leo van de Pas

Re: Update to genealogics.org : Edward Herbert of Powis Cast

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 15 sep 2005 00:20:02

See at the bottom

----- Original Message -----
From: <WJhonson@aol.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 7:28 AM
Subject: Update to genealogics.org : Edward Herbert of Powis Castle d 23 Mar
1594/5


On Leo's great web site here
http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.ph ... 2&tree=LEO

we see Sir Edward Herbert, of Powis Castle (and his wife Mary Stanley)
son of William Herbert, 1st Earl of Pembroke and his wife Anne Parr
only one son is named, and the other children have no spouses.

I now present a document that although not great, at least proves that one
of
the daughters lived to marrying age, and who she married.

Will Johnson
-----------------------------------------
Shropshire Archives: Moseley Collection
Reference Code: 2089
Moseley Collection
Creation dates: c1300-1911
Creator(s): Moseley family of Buildwas, Shropshire

MARRIAGE SETTLEMENTS, MORTGAGES, LEGAL PAPERS
Reference: 2089/4/1/1
Conveyance in trust
Creation dates: 20 August 1578

Scope and Content
1. Sir Edward Herberte of Hendon, co. Mydd.
2. Edward Grey of Byldwas, co. Saloppe'
Before marriage of Edward Grey son of 2. and a dter. of 1., Covenant of 2.
to
convey to 1., Henry earl of Pembrok, Robert earl of Leicester, and Sir
Robert
Throckmorton, by recovery before 29 September 1578 of barony and lordship
of
Powys, the castle of Poole, the boroughs of Poole and llanvyllinge
[Llanfyllin], manors of Powys, Poole, Teirtre, llanerghe hudull
[Llannerch-hudol],
Stratemarcell; Kerenyon, Meghen vchcoyd, Meghen Iscoyd, llanvillinge,
Moghnante,
Ruerthe [Rhiwarth]. and Garthgelynnyn, etc. in Poole, Buttington,
Gylsfield,
llanvrvyll [Llanerfyl], llangadvan, Garthbebyo, Llanvair, Llangunio,
Castell'
Cayrynion, Llanvihangell', llanvillinge, llanveghen, llansanfraid,
Llanwothyn
[Llanwddyn], Pennant, Hyrnante, llangynocke', llanyerhayder [Llanrhaeadr],
Myvod,
etc., co. Mont.; and to levy a fine before 2 Feb. 1578/9 of same.
Covenant of 2. to levy a fine before Easter 1579 to same of manors of
Ponsbury and Charlton, co. Salop; Andever, co. Southampton; Dyppinge, co.
Lincoln;
and Droytewiche, co. Worc., wherein Dame Jane, late wife of Lorde Powys,
dec'd.,
has a freehold for life.
Detailed declarations of uses and provisoes, including covenant of 2. to
convey property late of abbey of Byldwas (excepting a rent of £13 6s 8d
from
Harnedge Grange) to same trustees to hold to use of Edward Grey son and
dter. of 1.
Provision for younger sons and dters.
Attached list of current leases of property at castle of Poole [Powis
Castle]. Kereynion [Caereinion], Teirtre, Llanvillinge and llannerchudoll.


The legalistic language of the above makes it for me a little hard to follow
but it makes me query : Who is Dame Jane, late wife of Lorde Powys in 1578.

Powis or Powys was part of the Grey family. We had Edward Grey, 4th Lord
Grey of Powis (died 1551) he was married to Anne Brandon (she died 1557/8)
and they were childless.
However, the 4th Lord Grey of Powis and Jane Orwell had four children,
Edward, Anne, Joan and an unnamed child.

The eldest of these four bastards was Edward Grey, of Buildwas (Byldwas). CP
X 642 tells how this Edward was made universal heir of his father and came
of age in 1568. He married Chrysogon Giffard and they had 4 daughters and 5
sons. In 1587 (not 1578?) he sells Red Castle (formerly Pool and afterwards
Powis Castle) and the district of Powisland to Sir Edward Herbert mentioned
above by Will Johnson.

These Greys are very interesting, thanks to John Higgins I have only one (of
4) daughter of Edward Grey and Chrysogon Giffard, also named Chrysogon and
she is an ancestor of Lady Diana Spencer.

But who is Dame Jane? Surely not Jane Orwell? She was not married to Lord
Powis.

Can anyone tell?
Leo van de Pas

John Higgins

Re: Update to genealogics.org : Edward Herbert of Powis Cast

Legg inn av John Higgins » 15 sep 2005 01:25:02

I think the answer to the mystery of Dame Jane called "wife of Lord Powys"
may be in a footnote [i] in CP 10:642. Here it says that Joan/Jane Orwell,
mistress of Edward Grey, illeg. son of the 4th Lord Grey of Powis,
afterwards mar. John Herbert who was subsequently styled in 1568 as of Red
Castle or Powis. In 1580 Jane is referred to as "Jane Hebert, widow,
otherwise Jane Kemp, otherwise Jane Orwell, called Lady Powys". CP also
cites a letter of 1596 in which she signed herself "Jane Powys".

I'd guess that she picked up the Powis connection from her husband John
herbert, and that he was loosely styled Lord Powis in the transaction that
Will references.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Leo van de Pas" <leovdpas@netspeed.com.au>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 3:18 PM
Subject: Re: Update to genealogics.org : Edward Herbert of Powis Castle d 23
Mar 1594/5


See at the bottom

----- Original Message -----
From: <WJhonson@aol.com
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 7:28 AM
Subject: Update to genealogics.org : Edward Herbert of Powis Castle d 23
Mar
1594/5


On Leo's great web site here
http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.ph ... 2&tree=LEO

we see Sir Edward Herbert, of Powis Castle (and his wife Mary Stanley)
son of William Herbert, 1st Earl of Pembroke and his wife Anne Parr
only one son is named, and the other children have no spouses.

I now present a document that although not great, at least proves that
one
of
the daughters lived to marrying age, and who she married.

Will Johnson
-----------------------------------------
Shropshire Archives: Moseley Collection
Reference Code: 2089
Moseley Collection
Creation dates: c1300-1911
Creator(s): Moseley family of Buildwas, Shropshire

MARRIAGE SETTLEMENTS, MORTGAGES, LEGAL PAPERS
Reference: 2089/4/1/1
Conveyance in trust
Creation dates: 20 August 1578

Scope and Content
1. Sir Edward Herberte of Hendon, co. Mydd.
2. Edward Grey of Byldwas, co. Saloppe'
Before marriage of Edward Grey son of 2. and a dter. of 1., Covenant of
2.
to
convey to 1., Henry earl of Pembrok, Robert earl of Leicester, and Sir
Robert
Throckmorton, by recovery before 29 September 1578 of barony and
lordship
of
Powys, the castle of Poole, the boroughs of Poole and llanvyllinge
[Llanfyllin], manors of Powys, Poole, Teirtre, llanerghe hudull
[Llannerch-hudol],
Stratemarcell; Kerenyon, Meghen vchcoyd, Meghen Iscoyd, llanvillinge,
Moghnante,
Ruerthe [Rhiwarth]. and Garthgelynnyn, etc. in Poole, Buttington,
Gylsfield,
llanvrvyll [Llanerfyl], llangadvan, Garthbebyo, Llanvair, Llangunio,
Castell'
Cayrynion, Llanvihangell', llanvillinge, llanveghen, llansanfraid,
Llanwothyn
[Llanwddyn], Pennant, Hyrnante, llangynocke', llanyerhayder
[Llanrhaeadr],
Myvod,
etc., co. Mont.; and to levy a fine before 2 Feb. 1578/9 of same.
Covenant of 2. to levy a fine before Easter 1579 to same of manors of
Ponsbury and Charlton, co. Salop; Andever, co. Southampton; Dyppinge,
co.
Lincoln;
and Droytewiche, co. Worc., wherein Dame Jane, late wife of Lorde Powys,
dec'd.,
has a freehold for life.
Detailed declarations of uses and provisoes, including covenant of 2. to
convey property late of abbey of Byldwas (excepting a rent of £13 6s 8d
from
Harnedge Grange) to same trustees to hold to use of Edward Grey son and
dter. of 1.
Provision for younger sons and dters.
Attached list of current leases of property at castle of Poole [Powis
Castle]. Kereynion [Caereinion], Teirtre, Llanvillinge and
llannerchudoll.


The legalistic language of the above makes it for me a little hard to
follow
but it makes me query : Who is Dame Jane, late wife of Lorde Powys in
1578.

Powis or Powys was part of the Grey family. We had Edward Grey, 4th Lord
Grey of Powis (died 1551) he was married to Anne Brandon (she died 1557/8)
and they were childless.
However, the 4th Lord Grey of Powis and Jane Orwell had four children,
Edward, Anne, Joan and an unnamed child.

The eldest of these four bastards was Edward Grey, of Buildwas (Byldwas).
CP
X 642 tells how this Edward was made universal heir of his father and came
of age in 1568. He married Chrysogon Giffard and they had 4 daughters and
5
sons. In 1587 (not 1578?) he sells Red Castle (formerly Pool and
afterwards
Powis Castle) and the district of Powisland to Sir Edward Herbert
mentioned
above by Will Johnson.

These Greys are very interesting, thanks to John Higgins I have only one
(of
4) daughter of Edward Grey and Chrysogon Giffard, also named Chrysogon and
she is an ancestor of Lady Diana Spencer.

But who is Dame Jane? Surely not Jane Orwell? She was not married to Lord
Powis.

Can anyone tell?
Leo van de Pas

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