Walter of Gloucester: Ancestors of Bohun, Brewes, & Fitz Her
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Douglas Richardson royala
Walter of Gloucester: Ancestors of Bohun, Brewes, & Fitz Her
Dear Newsgroup ~
This past week I encountered the link below relating to Walter of
Gloucester, Sheriff of Gloucestershire (died c. 1126/7), which
individual is ancestral to the later Bohun, Brewes, and Fitz
Herbert/Fitz Roger families. As I noted yesterday, Walter's son and
heir, Miles of Gloucester, became Earl of Hereford in 1141, after which
this family adopted the surname "of Hereford."
http://www.kcl.ac.uk/humanities/cch/dlv ... Walter.htm
Among other interesting things found on this website relating to Walter
of Gloucester, the suggestion is made that Walter's hitherto unknown
wife may have been named Bertha. All good fun. Enjoy!
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Website: http://www.royalancestry.net
This past week I encountered the link below relating to Walter of
Gloucester, Sheriff of Gloucestershire (died c. 1126/7), which
individual is ancestral to the later Bohun, Brewes, and Fitz
Herbert/Fitz Roger families. As I noted yesterday, Walter's son and
heir, Miles of Gloucester, became Earl of Hereford in 1141, after which
this family adopted the surname "of Hereford."
http://www.kcl.ac.uk/humanities/cch/dlv ... Walter.htm
Among other interesting things found on this website relating to Walter
of Gloucester, the suggestion is made that Walter's hitherto unknown
wife may have been named Bertha. All good fun. Enjoy!
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Website: http://www.royalancestry.net
-
Peter Stewart
Re: Walter of Gloucester: Ancestors of Bohun, Brewes, & Fitz
<royalancestry@msn.com> wrote in message
news:1126720247.361632.127760@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Why does this post appear in two different versions? The second is
apparently (but if so, silently) corrected, and reads:
So the "hitherto unknown wife" who "may have been named Bertha" vanished
into the ether. Maybe she will run into "Uriah" on the astral plane,
somewhere over Turkey.
Was she by any chance "hitherto" known after all, but not to Ricahrdson? Or
was the phoney news so thrilling to him that he overwrote it with a yawn?
Peter Stewart
news:1126720247.361632.127760@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Dear Newsgroup ~
This past week I encountered the link below relating to Walter of
Gloucester, Sheriff of Gloucestershire (died c. 1126/7), which
individual is ancestral to the later Bohun, Brewes, and Fitz
Herbert/Fitz Roger families. As I noted yesterday, Walter's son and
heir, Miles of Gloucester, became Earl of Hereford in 1141, after which
this family adopted the surname "of Hereford."
http://www.kcl.ac.uk/humanities/cch/dlv ... Walter.htm
Among other interesting things found on this website relating to Walter
of Gloucester, the suggestion is made that Walter's hitherto unknown
wife may have been named Bertha. All good fun. Enjoy!
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Why does this post appear in two different versions? The second is
apparently (but if so, silently) corrected, and reads:
Dear Newsgroup ~
This past week I encountered the weblink below which has interesting
information relating to Walter of Gloucester, Sheriff of
Gloucestershire (died c. 1126/7). Walter of Gloucester was promiment
during the reign of King Henry I of England. He is ancestral to the
Bohun, Braiose/Brewes, and Fitz Herbert/Fitz Roger families, from which
families most newsgroup members descend.
http://www.kcl.ac.uk/humanities/cch/dlv ... Walter.htm
Walter of Gloucester's son, Miles of Gloucester, became Earl of
Hereford in 1141, after which this family adopted the surname "of
Hereford."
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
So the "hitherto unknown wife" who "may have been named Bertha" vanished
into the ether. Maybe she will run into "Uriah" on the astral plane,
somewhere over Turkey.
Was she by any chance "hitherto" known after all, but not to Ricahrdson? Or
was the phoney news so thrilling to him that he overwrote it with a yawn?
Peter Stewart
-
Gjest
Re: Walter of Gloucester: Ancestors of Bohun, Brewes, & Fitz
According to my notes, Bertha is referred to in Complete Peerage (sub
Hereford), inter alia.
MAR
Hereford), inter alia.
MAR
-
Peter Stewart
Re: Walter of Gloucester: Ancestors of Bohun, Brewes, & Fitz
<mjcar@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:1126788049.653668.232560@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Quite so - the point is, why did Richardson describe her as "hitherto
unknown", and why has he left this statement uncorrected while making an
alternative one about the same family? To quote his own words, " We can and
should do better than this".
Peter Stewart
news:1126788049.653668.232560@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
According to my notes, Bertha is referred to in Complete Peerage (sub
Hereford), inter alia.
Quite so - the point is, why did Richardson describe her as "hitherto
unknown", and why has he left this statement uncorrected while making an
alternative one about the same family? To quote his own words, " We can and
should do better than this".
Peter Stewart
-
Douglas Richardson royala
Re: Walter of Gloucester: Ancestors of Bohun, Brewes, & Fitz
Dear Peter ~
The helpful online Durham Liber Vitae Project at
http://www.kcl.ac.uk/humanities/cch/dlv ... Walter.htm
states the following:
"Further identification of members of this group depends upon the
dating of the group. If the entry was made before 1130, Berta may well
be Walter of Gloucester's otherwise unidentified wife. Walter's
granddaughter was named Berta, married to William de Braiose,
suggesting that this name was used in the family. There are three
possibilities for identifying the two other named individuals listed in
this group, both named Roger. Candidates comprise [a] Roger of Pîtres,
father of Walter of Gloucester; [b] Roger of Gloucester, son of Durand
and first cousin of Walter of Gloucester; [c] Roger, earl of Hereford,
1143-55, son of Miles of Gloucester. In view of the palaeographical
evidence [a] and [b] are to be preferred over [c]. A notable absence
from this grouping is Walter's son and principal heir, Miles of
Gloucester, earl of Hereford, and his wife, Sybil, daughter of Bernard
of Neufmarché. This might suggest that the entry was drawn up towards
the beginning of Henry I's reign." END OF QUOTE.
The author of Durham Liber Vitae Project website is clearly of the
impression that Walter's "otherwise unidentified" wife "may well be"
named Bertha. If you believe you have evidence to conclusively
identify Walter's wife, I suggest you contact the author and provide
him the evidence for Bertha's identity.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Website: http://www.royalancestry.net
The helpful online Durham Liber Vitae Project at
http://www.kcl.ac.uk/humanities/cch/dlv ... Walter.htm
states the following:
"Further identification of members of this group depends upon the
dating of the group. If the entry was made before 1130, Berta may well
be Walter of Gloucester's otherwise unidentified wife. Walter's
granddaughter was named Berta, married to William de Braiose,
suggesting that this name was used in the family. There are three
possibilities for identifying the two other named individuals listed in
this group, both named Roger. Candidates comprise [a] Roger of Pîtres,
father of Walter of Gloucester; [b] Roger of Gloucester, son of Durand
and first cousin of Walter of Gloucester; [c] Roger, earl of Hereford,
1143-55, son of Miles of Gloucester. In view of the palaeographical
evidence [a] and [b] are to be preferred over [c]. A notable absence
from this grouping is Walter's son and principal heir, Miles of
Gloucester, earl of Hereford, and his wife, Sybil, daughter of Bernard
of Neufmarché. This might suggest that the entry was drawn up towards
the beginning of Henry I's reign." END OF QUOTE.
The author of Durham Liber Vitae Project website is clearly of the
impression that Walter's "otherwise unidentified" wife "may well be"
named Bertha. If you believe you have evidence to conclusively
identify Walter's wife, I suggest you contact the author and provide
him the evidence for Bertha's identity.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Website: http://www.royalancestry.net
-
Peter Stewart
Re: Walter of Gloucester: Ancestors of Bohun, Brewes, & Fitz
<royalancestry@msn.com> wrote in message
news:1126823352.954874.309950@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Dear Peter ~
The helpful online Durham Liber Vitae Project at
http://www.kcl.ac.uk/humanities/cch/dlv ... Walter.htm
states the following:
"Further identification of members of this group depends upon the
dating of the group. If the entry was made before 1130, Berta may well
be Walter of Gloucester's otherwise unidentified wife.
Exactly - "otherwise unknown" is NOT THE SAME as "hitherto unknown": Berta
is identifiable only from the Liber Vitae entry and the onomastic evidence,
and the evidence in this context has been known and recorded since CP at
least.
You fail to comprehend a statement in an online secondary source, rush to
post another phoney "discovery" to the newsgroup, then realise your mistake
and try in your usual slippery way to overwrite it rather than frankly admit
the error and ensure that it doesn't mislead anyone else.
Unprofessional and incompetent.
Peter Stewart
news:1126823352.954874.309950@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Dear Peter ~
The helpful online Durham Liber Vitae Project at
http://www.kcl.ac.uk/humanities/cch/dlv ... Walter.htm
states the following:
"Further identification of members of this group depends upon the
dating of the group. If the entry was made before 1130, Berta may well
be Walter of Gloucester's otherwise unidentified wife.
Exactly - "otherwise unknown" is NOT THE SAME as "hitherto unknown": Berta
is identifiable only from the Liber Vitae entry and the onomastic evidence,
and the evidence in this context has been known and recorded since CP at
least.
You fail to comprehend a statement in an online secondary source, rush to
post another phoney "discovery" to the newsgroup, then realise your mistake
and try in your usual slippery way to overwrite it rather than frankly admit
the error and ensure that it doesn't mislead anyone else.
Unprofessional and incompetent.
Peter Stewart
-
Douglas Richardson royala
Re: Walter of Gloucester: Ancestors of Bohun, Brewes, & Fitz
Grasping at staws, again, Peter? "Otherwise unknown" reads "hitherto
unknown" to me.
Unknown equals unknown.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Website: http://www.royalancestry.net
unknown" to me.
Unknown equals unknown.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Website: http://www.royalancestry.net
-
Peter Stewart
Re: Walter of Gloucester: Ancestors of Bohun, Brewes, & Fitz
<royalancestry@msn.com> wrote in message
news:1126824674.226277.134990@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
But OTHERWISE doesn't equal HITHERTO. Are you so moronic and uneducated that
you can't tell this? How did a college ever admit you with no basic aptitude
for logic and no comprehension of plain English?
"Hitherto" means before this time, up to now; "otherwise" means in different
circumstances or contexts, whenever and wherever these occurred.
Are you afraid that someone might not realise what a dishonest idiot you
are, so that you have to keep proving this every few minutes?
Peter Stewart
news:1126824674.226277.134990@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Grasping at staws, again, Peter? "Otherwise unknown" reads "hitherto
unknown" to me.
Unknown equals unknown.
But OTHERWISE doesn't equal HITHERTO. Are you so moronic and uneducated that
you can't tell this? How did a college ever admit you with no basic aptitude
for logic and no comprehension of plain English?
"Hitherto" means before this time, up to now; "otherwise" means in different
circumstances or contexts, whenever and wherever these occurred.
Are you afraid that someone might not realise what a dishonest idiot you
are, so that you have to keep proving this every few minutes?
Peter Stewart