Margaret Knyvet's Marriages 1410-1424

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Tony Ingham

Margaret Knyvet's Marriages 1410-1424

Legg inn av Tony Ingham » 08 sep 2005 05:16:02

The following data shows Margaret Knivet's three marriages. Christopher
Nash discussed this probability on the Gen-Med list from 7 Jul 2003
onwards under:


Subject: Marney/Etchingham/Knyvett




** MARGARET KNYVET* married ROBERT de TYE, knight, said to be the son
of Robert de Tye, knight, (d. 1382/3) of Barsham Suffolk, before 11
October 1410 when John Knyvet granted various properties in
Northamptonshire to Robert Ty, knight, and Margaret his wife.
Robert de Tye must have been born /post mortem/ if his father was
Robert de Tye, dead by 24 August 1383. Robert had only a daughter
Dionisia, under 14 years, and his wife Elizabeth was 'with child' when
he made his will in April 1382 ; however, Elizabeth mentioned no
children when she made her will which was proved on 25 September 1383.
This Robert is said to have died 8 October 1415 and then buried in
the church of Sotterley Suffolk. Another memorial in this church is to
Aymer de Wilington and his wife Hawise. Aymer was the uncle of Robert
de Tye (d.1382/3), who acknowledged this relationship in his will of 1382.
There was no issue from this marriage.

1406 Calendar of Patent Rolls Henry IV 1405-1408 p. 230
April 8. Westminster.
The like [Commission of oyer and terminer] to John Cokayn, John
Hevenyngham and Robert Martham, on complaint by Robert de Ty,
'chivaler,' that when lately in his fee at Barsham, co. Suffolk, for
customs and services due to him he caused 400 sheep to be taken by
Thomas Goodyng his servant and the latter imparked them there according
to the law and custom of the realm one Robert Garveys and William his
son and Peter his brother and others, while the said Robert was on the
king's service in Wales, broke the park and carried off the sheep and
goods of his and assaulted his servants. For
20s. paid in the hanaper.


** MARGARET* married secondly, after the death of her first husband
ROBERT de TYE in 1415, THOMAS MARNY, knight, of Layer Marny Essex.
Thomas was born on 6 Feb 1392/3 according to his father's I.P.M. taken
in 1414, and would have been aged about 22 years at his marriage.
Thomas died s.p.m. between 1 October 1420 and 7 November 1421 when
his will was proved at the P.C.C. (P.R.O. PROB 11/2b). He named his wife
Margaret as one of the executors.


Calendar of Patent Rolls Henry V 1416-1422 P. 303
1420 Oct. 1 Westminster.
Whereas Gilbert Umfrevile, knight, Thomas Marny, knight, Henry Noon,
esquire, John Coo, John Symond, Richard Fitz Nicholl, John Cote and
Geoffrey Brise, chaplain, lately acquired to themselves and their heirs
from William Swynbourne, esquire, and Philippa his wife a third part of
the manor of Chepyngnorton, co. Oxford, held of the king in chief, and
entered thereon without licence ; the king, for 10£. paid in the
hanaper, pardons the trespass in this.

1421/2 P.R.O. C 138/57/36
Marny, Thomas, kt: Bucks, Oxon, Cornwall 9 Hen V

1422/3 P.R.O. C 139/1/11
Marny, Margaret, daughter and heiress of Thomas, kt: Cornwall 1
Hen VI

Calendar of Fine Rolls Vol. XV. 1422-1430 p. 26
1 Henry VI. Dec. 26. Westminster 1422.
Commitment to Margaret late the wife of Thomas Marny, knight, - by
mainprise of John Whateley of London and John Battescombe of the county
of Devon, - of the keeping of two-thirds of a third part of the manor of
Chepyngnorton, which came into the hands of Henry V and are still in the
king's hand by the death of Thomas ; to hold the same from Michaelmas
last for as long as the premises shall remain in the king's hand on that
account, rendering for the keeping 7 marks yearly by equal portions at
Easter and Michaelmas, maintaining the houses, enclosures and buildings,
and supporting all other charges incumbent on the said two-thirds.
By bill of the treasurer.

1423/4 P.R.O. C 139/9/15
Marny, Margaret, daughter and heiress of Thomas, kt: Oxon, Bucks
2 Hen VI

1423/4 P.R.O. C 139/13/55
Marny, John, brother and heir of Thomas, kt. Proof of age: Essex 2
Hen VI

1444-1469 P.R.O. C 1/22/16
Margaret, that was the wife of Thomas Echyngham, knt., and late the wife
of Thomas of Marny, knt. v. John of Marny, brother of the said Thomas.:
The manor of Colquite (Kylquyte): Cornwall.

1439/1430 P.R.O. C 146/112
Demise by John Marny, esquire, to John Hobbes, the elder, of
Kyngeshey, yeoman, John Hobbes, the younger, and Richard Hobbes his
brother, of the manor of Kingsey, except the part assigned as dower to
Margaret, wife of Thomas de Echyngham, knight, late the wife of Thomas
Marny, knight, brother of the said John Marny, and excepting feudal
services: Bucks. 20 February, 18 Henry VI.

Abt 1453 Dorset Record Office Reference: D/WLC/T271
KINGSEY, CHIPPING NORTON
(a) Sir Jn. Merney to Thos. Throkmorton & Jn. Rous, esqrs.
Gift of 2 parts of his manor of Kyngesey (Bucks.) & 2 parts of 1/3 of
manor of Chepyng Norton (Oxon.) with lands etc.; also reversion of
lands, tenements etc. in said vills which Margaret Ichyngham now holds
as dowry after death of Sir Thomas Merney, the donor's brother.
(b) Thos. Throkmorton & Jn. Rous, esqrs., to Sir Jn. Merney & Joan
Barantyn, lately widow of Denis Barantyn.
Demise of property as above, with remainder on death of Sir John, Joan
and the legitimate heirs of their bodies to the right heirs of Sir John.
(c) Thos. Throkmorton & Jn. Rous, esqrs., to Jn. Bayone & Wm. Elton.
Power of attorney, to seise Sir Jn. Merney and Joan Barantyn of property
above. Undated


** MARGARET* married thirdly THOMAS ECHYNGHAM, knight, of Etchingham
Sussex, sometime between 1421 and 1424 when he presented to the church
of Barsham. Richard Echyngham, second son of Thomas and Margaret, was
given the manor of Barsham and from him it descended, by heir male, to
Edward Echyngham, knight, of Barsham who died in 1527.
Thomas was born abt. 1401 according to his father's I.P.M. taken at
Tenterden co. Kent on 10 March 1413/4, where Thomas was named as his son
and heir, aged 13 years and more. He would have been aged at least 20 at
his marriage.
* *
* *
SUMMARY :

Margaret the widow of Thomas Marny (d.1420/1) was still living in
1453 when Thomas' younger brother John Marny married as his second wife
Joan Throckmorton, widow of Denis Barantyn. This Margaret married
secondly Thomas Echyngham.
Margaret the widow of Thomas Echyngham (d.1444) was still living in
1467.
In the event it is extremely unlikely that the two Margarets could be
any other than the same person.

It is interesting to note that Margaret lived out her days in "le
Knyghtes Chambyr" at the manor of Barsham in Suffolk. She was troubled
by a lack of income owing to the jointures given for the two marriages
of her son Richard Echyngham.
(See P.R.O. C 1/27/xxx)


Please excuse the presentation as it was cut and pasted, then a couple
of images were removed and replaced by typed copies of the data.


Tony Ingham

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